Interesting stuff from DatDude BP

[wvreds]

I saw last night but can't remember where some intesting comments form BP. He basically said we have "some holes in our lineup" and "we are missing things" and we are "doing the best with what we have got." Sounds to me when the players think there needs to be changes, then there should ASAP

[will5979]

Sorry DatDude, but your best sure ain't cutting it.

[KYRedLeg]

I saw last night but can't remember where some intesting comments form BP. He basically said we have "some holes in our lineup" and "we are missing things" and we are "doing the best with what we have got." Sounds to me when the players think there needs to be changes, then there should ASAP

Did he happen to mention those being in the #4 spot?

[R_Webb18]

the lineup is a joke. bp hitting 4th is laughable

[texasdave]

I saw last night but can't remember where some intesting comments form BP. He basically said we have "some holes in our lineup" and "we are missing things" and we are "doing the best with what we have got." Sounds to me when the players think there needs to be changes, then there should ASAP

I am sure he isn't talking about himself and his .714 OPS. But he is silently throwing somebody under the bus.

[Stray]

I don't hold it against Arroyo that he isn't a legit ace, that's not what we had in mind when we signed him. I'm also not holding it against BP for not being a real cleanup hitter, because again I doubt that's what we had in mind when we signed him. He's never been a cleanup hitter and he never will be.

I've said it a few times, but we just have some guys out of their comfort zone on this team. We fixed it by moving Marshall back to the setup role, but the batting order still has its probs. Cozart and Stubbs are both better 2nd, BP would be better leading off, and nobody can hit behind Votto. I'd say Bruce, but do we really want to put a guy known for going on 1-40 slumps protecting the franchise?

For all of the flaws we're still a 1st place team. There's plenty of time to get this thing working better.

[New York Red]

We had a chance to run Burnett out of the game in the first inning last night, and Brandon could have played a big role in it. Take care of yourself, BP, and let the front office handle the rest.

[texasdave]

Flexibility has to be the key here. When Bruce is hitting well he hits cleanup. When he goes into one of his funks he moves down in the order. Lineup cards don't have to be carved in stone.
Except, of course, that CF and SS bat 1-2 in some order and catcher bats 8th. LOL.

[Stray]

Flexibility has to be the key here. When Bruce is hitting well he hits cleanup. When he goes into one of his funks he moves down in the order. Lineup cards don't have to be carved in stone.
Except, of course, that CF and SS bat 1-2 in some order and catcher bats 8th. LOL.

I wouldn't have an issue with it if it were moving around 4-7 or something, but flipping Phillips/Cozart all the way up or down the lineup depending on when Bruce goes on a hot streak could really mess with those guys.

I still think Phillips should lead off...I'd just have some sort of Bruce/Frazier/Heisey combination after Votto that could depend on when Bruce is on a hot streak.

[LeDoux]

I wouldn't have an issue with it if it were moving around 4-7 or something, but flipping Phillips/Cozart all the way up or down the lineup depending on when Bruce goes on a hot streak could really mess with those guys.

I still think Phillips should lead off...I'd just have some sort of Bruce/Frazier/Heisey combination after Votto that could depend on when Bruce is on a hot streak.


Flexibility has to be the key here. When Bruce is hitting well he hits cleanup. When he goes into one of his funks he moves down in the order. Lineup cards don't have to be carved in stone.
Except, of course, that CF and SS bat 1-2 in some order and catcher bats 8th. LOL.

The problem is that many people, possibly including Dusty, see this type of experimentation/flexibility as disruptive. Personally, I think there is a greater risk of ending up in a rut by keeping a player in unnecessary repetition. But, this does not be the majority view. These changes seem impossible if the leadership sees these changes as potentially harmful.

Note: The if has been underlined because I am unsure about Dusty's true feelings on the subject.

[Stray]

The problem is that many people, possibly including Dusty, see this type of experimentation/flexibility as disruptive. Personally, I think there is a greater risk of ending up in a rut by keeping a player in unnecessary repetition. But, this does not be the majority view. These changes seem impossible if the leadership sees these changes as potentially harmful.

Note: The if has been underlined because I am unsure about Dusty's true feelings on the subject.

I think asking Phillips to go from cleanup to leadoff to experiment during a Bruce hotstreak would be disruptive. Since he's got healthy BP hasn't been terrible or anything, the DPs are gonna happen when the guy in front of you gets on base every at bat.

I've actually been happy with Dusty's willingness to experiment with lineups more this year...obviously Hanigan at 8 every start being the exception. If he makes the move to put BP back in the leadoff spot I would think it'll be for the rest of the year. They gotta have faith in someone else picking up that part in the order tho. That's why I'd go Bruce/Frazier/Heisey in any order and live with the results.

Phillips ahead of Votto is going to give Votto more opportunities with guys on base...we at least know that. Whether or not they pitch to him is a totally different question lol.

[Ironman92]

I think asking Phillips to go from cleanup to leadoff to experiment during a Bruce hotstreak would be disruptive. Since he's got healthy BP hasn't been terrible or anything, the DPs are gonna happen when the guy in front of you gets on base every at bat.

I've actually been happy with Dusty's willingness to experiment with lineups more this year...obviously Hanigan at 8 every start being the exception. If he makes the move to put BP back in the leadoff spot I would think it'll be for the rest of the year. They gotta have faith in someone else picking up that part in the order tho. That's why I'd go Bruce/Frazier/Heisey in any order and live with the results.

Phillips ahead of Votto is going to give Votto more opportunities with guys on base...we at least know that. Whether or not they pitch to him is a totally different question lol.

BP told Dusty last year after way too many games hitting 4th to move him to leadoff and has admitted over and over about letting the thought of him batting cleanup affect him. He pressures himself trying to hit HR when no one is on because he feels he needs to be the big RBI guy.

[LeDoux]

I think asking Phillips to go from cleanup to leadoff to experiment during a Bruce hotstreak would be disruptive. Since he's got healthy BP hasn't been terrible or anything, the DPs are gonna happen when the guy in front of you gets on base every at bat.

I've actually been happy with Dusty's willingness to experiment with lineups more this year...obviously Hanigan at 8 every start being the exception. If he makes the move to put BP back in the leadoff spot I would think it'll be for the rest of the year. They gotta have faith in someone else picking up that part in the order tho. That's why I'd go Bruce/Frazier/Heisey in any order and live with the results.

Phillips ahead of Votto is going to give Votto more opportunities with guys on base...we at least know that. Whether or not they pitch to him is a totally different question lol.

I agree with this. If you don't have a true #4 hitter, just go with the hot bat.

[brm7675]

I don't hold it against Arroyo that he isn't a legit ace, that's not what we had in mind when we signed him. I'm also not holding it against BP for not being a real cleanup hitter, because again I doubt that's what we had in mind when we signed him. He's never been a cleanup hitter and he never will be.

I've said it a few times, but we just have some guys out of their comfort zone on this team. We fixed it by moving Marshall back to the setup role, but the batting order still has its probs. Cozart and Stubbs are both better 2nd, BP would be better leading off, and nobody can hit behind Votto. I'd say Bruce, but do we really want to put a guy known for going on 1-40 slumps protecting the franchise?

For all of the flaws we're still a 1st place team. There's plenty of time to get this thing working better.

time isn't the issue, thought is. Right now neither Walt nor dusty think the problems are that big and can't be fixed in house. Until that thought process changes, we are in trouble.

[justincredible]

Sorry DatDude, but your best sure ain't cutting it.

He had 11 RBI in his 8 games coming in to last night. That's pretty good, right?

[texasdave]

I think asking Phillips to go from cleanup to leadoff to experiment during a Bruce hotstreak would be disruptive.

Long answer. Last year when Phillips switched from cleanup to leadoff in the middle of August he OPSed .990 the rest of the year.
Short answer. No. It wouldn't be disruptive.

[Stray]

Long answer. Last year when Phillips switched from cleanup to leadoff in the middle of August he OPSed .990 the rest of the year.
Short answer. No. It wouldn't be disruptive.

I'm not saying moving him there would be disruptive, I'm saying that if it weren't permanent and he bounced back and forth it would be disruptive. I wish we'd go ahead and make that move and take our chances with more people on base for Votto.

[justincredible]

Phillips just lead off the 2nd with a HR. That makes 12 RBI in his last 10 games. No, he's not an ideal cleanup batter but he's doing his job as of late.

[joshua]

Yep. Everyone, even Phillips knows he's not an ideal clean up hitter. But his willingness to hit wherever he's asked is an asset to this team and sets a good example to younger players. Now, if Dusty asked him to hit 7th, 8th or 9th I think he'd have a problem with it, but so would I and I would imagine 100% of the posters on the board haha.

[Ironman92]

Phillips just lead off the 2nd with a HR. That makes 12 RBI in his last 10 games. No, he's not an ideal cleanup batter but he's doing his job as of late.

He's been very good and everyone has poor games.....but what was he doing last night? 4 K and all were pulling off hard trying to hit upper deckers. For the last 5 years he's a darn hard out when he hits to RF.....he's one of the best....proved it again tonight. I've said for 5 years that he can hit those outside pitches at will that way and hit .315 every year.....I wish he would commit more to doing that.

[justincredible]

He's been very good and everyone has poor games.....but what was he doing last night? 4 K and all were pulling off hard trying to hit upper deckers. For the last 5 years he's a darn hard out when he hits to RF.....he's one of the best....proved it again tonight. I've said for 5 years that he can hit those outside pitches at will that way and hit .315 every year.....I wish he would commit more to doing that.

Yeah, last night was bad. But like you said, everyone has poor games. Even Joey Votto.

[Ironman92]

Yeah, last night was bad. But like you said, everyone has poor games. Even Joey Votto.

I would think after a ridiculous at bat, maybe even two he would adjust something......he's got it back.

Votto adjust mid-swing. He's wrapped a little tight. Lol

[The DARK]

Something tells me there's a lot of internal pressure on Jocketty to get Quentin or someone of his ilk. It would seem ideal; we don't have to stick with 4 true outfielders (not counting Frazier) on the roster, Phillips gets to bat at a position where he's comfortable and where we also need help, and we can stop shuffling around the 25th man.

[Krawhitham]

Phillips just lead off the 2nd with a HR. That makes 12 RBI in his last 10 games. No, he's not an ideal cleanup batter but he's doing his job as of late.

.176 avg in June

[justincredible]

.176 avg in June

That's 5 games, one of which was an 0-5. LOL. Take out the 0-5 game and he's batting .312 in June.

He also has 5 RBI in that span.

[justincredible]

I would think after a ridiculous at bat, maybe even two he would adjust something......he's got it back.

Votto adjust mid-swing. He's wrapped a little tight. Lol

I don't think Votto is human. I try not to compare others to him. It just isn't fair. :)

[justincredible]

Votto hit .188 the first 5 games of the season. Awful.

Talk about ridiculously small sample sizes.

[Ironman92]

He lost it tonight.

Got his pocket completely picked on a fastpitch softball play. Had his back turned for almost 3 seconds allowing the runner to get to 3rd with 1 out....sac fly got him in.

Never should've went extras.