A slump dont last that long..

[ShaySongz]

Ludwick...i'm sure he's a nice guy but the reds have to make the easy decision and cute bait, i'm sure some Double A players can do better than what he's giving this offense.

[EMAW]

2nd best offensive producer in Reds OF, better stats than Stubbs and Heisey

[5TimeWSChamps]

No kidding. Gvie me a guy hitting .195 with 27 RBI's in 130 At-bats or so any day.

[EMAW]

OPS
Ludwick .709
Stubbs .673
Heisey .658

[5TimeWSChamps]

People that still use batting average as a measure of value need to rethink their ways

[Ironman92]

People that still use batting average as a measure of value need to rethink their ways

It is a measure.....no where near as high as it used to be, but it's a measure still.....extremely deceiving on both side though.

[RedsFanInBama]

We have a flawed roster. Right now, Ludwick playing the majority of games is not at all unreasonable.

[joshua]

OBP
Heisey - .305
Stubbs - .300
Ludwick - .287

[5TimeWSChamps]

OBP
Heisey - .305
Stubbs - .300
Ludwick - .287

OPS > OBP

How can anyone be *****ing about his run producing. You knew you were getting a sub .250 hitter. But he's driving in runs

[GoReds19]

Yep, Ludwicks a beast. Lets sign him up 2 or 3 more years.....

[ShaySongz]

he got the RBI's but look at the RBI's he leaves on the bases...his total would be 40+ if we had a hitter swinging at least .260 bring back Johnny Gomes ..seriously

[ShaySongz]

when a team is winning despite a flawed hitter not producing because the starting pitching is doing well, and not staying proactive in improving the team before the legit talent is gobbled up before trade deadline. Fans will always forgive a sub .200 batting average in JUNE!! But when September comes around and the games get tighter, and runs come few and far in between..and that LOB number starts to climb
You will Join me and SAY FREE RYAN LUDWICK!!......(drops the mic and walks away)

[LeDoux]

OPS > OBP

How can anyone be *****ing about his run producing. You knew you were getting a sub .250 hitter. But he's driving in runs

I don't think I have ever read a post stating OPS is a superior metric while suggesting RBIs are a good indication of a player's ability. People usually stand on one side or the other when it comes to traditional stats.

[Kcbuckeye22]

Didn't I see him swinging a piece of lumber like a giant ape with the bases loaded last night? Still don't know what I think of the signing yet. He hasn't looked good at the plate since......?

[Larkin88]

when a team is winning despite a flawed hitter not producing because the starting pitching is doing well, and not staying proactive in improving the team before the legit talent is gobbled up before trade deadline. Fans will always forgive a sub .200 batting average in JUNE!! But when September comes around and the games get tighter, and runs come few and far in between..and that LOB number starts to climb
You will Join me and SAY FREE RYAN LUDWICK!!......(drops the mic and walks away)

Just curious, did I miss some rampant spree of teams making roster or free agency moves for outfielders in the last few weeks? Do you really think all the legite talent is getting gobbled up? It's the second week of June. The stove hasn't even started heating up again, so take a chill pill.

What would you have the Reds do? Who in the minors would you bring up to replace Ludwick? His left of base numbers and his RBI numbers are both products of where he hits in the order. Yes, his average has been rough... but despite what is apparently obvious to you, I'm not convinced his numbers will be so low by the September you mention. And if they are, start whining then.

We can't afford to just sever ties with outfielders on our roster just because. Not without a plan for improvement. There may be one in the works. I think you're premature in calling for heads to roll when it isn't even the All Star Break.

[malcontent]

I'd be on the phone with Theo about LaHair.

Cubs might want a reliever or two. Reds have a surplus.

A LaHair/Ludwick or LaHair/Heisey platoon in LF would be very nice.

[texasdave]

Yep, Ludwicks a beast. Lets sign him up 2 or 3 more years.....

Reds have a 5 million dollar team option on him for 2013. Yikes!

[Larkin88]

I don't think I have ever read a post stating OPS is a superior metric while suggesting RBIs are a good indication of a player's ability. People usually stand on one side or the other when it comes to traditional stats.

Sort of made sense to me based on the context of his arguing that OPS > OBP. While not directly correlated, there's typically a positive relationship between someone's ability to slug and their ability to drive runs in. Where OPS is someone's on-base percentage plus his slugging percentage, 5TimeWSChamps was saying that's a better indicator of his value to the team.

In any event, Ludwick has been pretty good on the year in the one area the Reds offense as a whole has glaringly lacked. Is it a fluke? Hard to say. I just don't think they have the depth to afford severing ties with Ludwick on a whim... it's certainly not there in Louisville.

[5TimeWSChamps]

If we were gonna grab someone from Chicago, I'd rather it be DeJesus

[5TimeWSChamps]

Sort of made sense to me based on the context of his arguing that OPS > OBP. While not directly correlated, there's typically a positive relationship between someone's ability to slug and their ability to drive runs in. Where OPS is someone's on-base percentage plus his slugging percentage, 5TimeWSChamps was saying that's a better indicator of his value to the team.

In any event, Ludwick has been pretty good on the year in the one area the Reds offense as a whole has glaringly lacked. Is it a fluke? Hard to say. I just don't think they have the depth to afford severing ties with Ludwick on a whim... it's certainly not there in Louisville.

I understand the confusion, I'm just saying, despite the low batting average, his OPS and RBI numbers are both pretty solid, based on the number of at-bats he's had.

He's had some bigtime hits this year too don't forget

[brm7675]

Ludwick...i'm sure he's a nice guy but the reds have to make the easy decision and cute bait, i'm sure some Double A players can do better than what he's giving this offense.

Exactly which "numbers" are you basing this view off of?

[brm7675]

I'd be on the phone with Theo about LaHair.

Cubs might want a reliever or two. Reds have a surplus.

A LaHair/Ludwick or LaHair/Heisey platoon in LF would be very nice.

We have a first basemen, might of heard of him...Joey Votto. Why bring in another first basemen...

[LaFlamaBlanca]

We have a first basemen, might of heard of him...Joey Votto. Why bring in another first basemen...

He's obviously talking about sticking him in LF, where he's started 5 games in his entire career. I would take the .967 OPS bat however :eek:

[Who Dey Time]

We have a first basemen, might of heard of him...Joey Votto. Why bring in another first basemen...

LaHair does have outfield experience. If he were to come to the Reds (he's not by the way) he could play LF.

[joshua]

OPS > OBP

How can anyone be *****ing about his run producing. You knew you were getting a sub .250 hitter. But he's driving in runs

For someone sabre savvy enough to bring up OPS, I don't know why you'd then turn around and bring up RBIs...a stat with too many variables a player has no control over.

I don't want a guy hitting .206/.287 over a guy hitting .270/.305 or even a guy hitting .235/.300 if I can help it.

[brm7675]

He's obviously talking about sticking him in LF, where he's started 5 games in his entire career. I would take the .967 OPS bat however :eek:

He's not a LF, and we already have two..

[GoReds19]

I understand the confusion, I'm just saying, despite the low batting average, his OPS and RBI numbers are both pretty solid, based on the number of at-bats he's had.

He's had some bigtime hits this year too don't forget

What like 2 or 3 big hits all year? There is no way the Reds are a World Series contending team with Ludwick playing LF.

[malcontent]

He's obviously talking about sticking him in LF, where he's started 5 games in his entire career. I would take the .967 OPS bat however :eek:

But I count 191 minor league games (not sure what OF means....maybe switched positions during game).

LF 135
OF 33
RF 23

[LaFlamaBlanca]

But I count 191 minor league games (not sure what OF means....maybe switched positions during game).

LF 135
OF 33
RF 23

Fair enough, good stats. I suppose Alfonso Soriano has been the first name on the lineup card in left recent years. :beerme:


He's not a LF, and we already have two..

The point being neither of them are really any good. The Reds are 13th in the NL in production from LF, with a total .1 WAR and .299 wOBA. Certainly a position that could do with an offensive upgrade.

[brm7675]

Fair enough, good stats. I suppose Alfonso Soriano has been the first name on the lineup card in left recent years. :beerme:



The point being neither of them are really any good. The Reds are 13th in the NL in production from LF, with a total .1 WAR and .299 wOBA. Certainly a position that could do with an offensive upgrade.

Problem is neither Walt nor Dusty see that as a need.

[Kingspoint]

OPS
Ludwick .709
Stubbs .673
Heisey .658Stubbs and Heisey play much better defense, while they also possess a ton more upside. Ludwick offers no upside. Stubbs speed on the bases is worth that little difference in OPS.

In addition, Ludwick has been given the primo left-handed pitching opponents, while Heisey has been given the more difficult ones with much fewer left-handed pitching opportunities.

Ludwick needs to go.

[ShaySongz]

Stubbs and Heisey play much better defense, while they also possess a ton more upside. Ludwick offers no upside. Stubbs speed on the bases is worth that little difference in OPS.

In addition, Ludwick has been given the primo left-handed pitching opponents, while Heisey has been given the more difficult ones with much fewer left-handed pitching opportunities.

Ludwick needs to go.

I concur FREE RYAN LUDWICK...If you carrying a .200 batting average in the "bandbox" stadium..where Todd "look ma no hands" Frazier can hit a homerun, you need a greyhound ticket outta here ASAP

[ShaySongz]

Just curious, did I miss some rampant spree of teams making roster or free agency moves for outfielders in the last few weeks? Do you really think all the legite talent is getting gobbled up? It's the second week of June. The stove hasn't even started heating up again, so take a chill pill.

What would you have the Reds do? Who in the minors would you bring up to replace Ludwick? His left of base numbers and his RBI numbers are both products of where he hits in the order. Yes, his average has been rough... but despite what is apparently obvious to you, I'm not convinced his numbers will be so low by the September you mention. And if they are, start whining then.

We can't afford to just sever ties with outfielders on our roster just because. Not without a plan for improvement. There may be one in the works. I think you're premature in calling for heads to roll when it isn't even the All Star Break.

I think Ryan Lamarre will be better than Ludwick...as of right now. Thats just my opinion. why trade Johnny Gomes if this guy makes him look like a all-star..notice are number one offense dropped after that Gomes trade.

[brm7675]

I concur FREE RYAN LUDWICK...If you carrying a .200 batting average in the "bandbox" stadium..where Todd "look ma no hands" Frazier can hit a homerun, you need a greyhound ticket outta here ASAP

So what your saying is BA is the be all end all of determining a players value?

[ShaySongz]

I'm talking about avg, Rbi's and Defense..keeping that LOB number down or making productive outs.

[GoReds19]

So what your saying is BA is the be all end all of determining a players value?

Are you saying a 202 BA is acceptable?

[LaFlamaBlanca]

Problem is neither Walt nor Dusty see that as a need.

How do you know that for sure?


I think Ryan Lamarre will be better than Ludwick...as of right now. Thats just my opinion. why trade Johnny Gomes if this guy makes him look like a all-star..notice are number one offense dropped after that Gomes trade.

The Ryan Lamarre that has an OPS a whole .036 higher than Ludwick in the freaking Southern League, posting the holy grail of statistics .282 batting average? Not a chance.

[ShaySongz]

How do you know that for sure?



The Ryan Lamarre that has an OPS a whole .036 higher than Ludwick in the freaking Southern League, posting the holy grail of statistics .282 batting average? Not a chance.

It doesn't matter who the reds bring up in my eyes, he needs to come off the bench more than starting..I think when Rolen comes back Ludwick won't see the field unless its hitting in the pitchers spot late in games. Frazier's owning LF

[brm7675]

Are you saying a 202 BA is acceptable?

What I am saying is his other numbers have to be considered...

[improbus]

Let's dig into Ludwicks numbers a little and see what is going on. I will use Votto and then Heisey as comparisons.
First, Ludwick has had runners on base in 79 of 161 plate appearances, almost 50%. Votto has had runners on in 112 of 263 plate appearances, 43%, while Heisey has had runners on in 82 of 174 PA's (47%). Ludwick has also come up with 123 runners on base and Votto has had 148, and Heisey has had 106. So, Ludwick has averaged .92 runners on base per plate appearance. Votto averages .56 runner per plate appearance. Heisey averages .61 runner per plate appearance. Now, Ludwicks has knocked in 19 of those runners (I am subtracting home runs, where his run counts for an RBI, I will account for these later). So, Ludwick has gotten RBI's on 15% of his inherited runners. Votto has gotten RBI's on 20% of his inherited runners. Heisey has knocaked in 10% of his inherited runners. Now, lets count home runs. Ludwick 11.3%, Votto 10%, Heisey 4.4%.

So, Ludwick has made the most of his opportunities, but he has had way more opportunities (per PA) than Heisey.

Finally, two intersting things. First, Ludwick has come up to bat with the bases loaded 7 times (and Votto has only come up with bases loaded twice). Ludwick has 10 of his 27 RBI's in those situations. That seems like a statistical anomaly. The second interesting thing is that Votto had Ludwicks opportunities, he would have 60 RBIs right now (which would lead the NL by 5).

The real crime of this team isn't Ludwick (although the numbers suggest that Heisey is really bad), it is that the Reds can't get on for Votto to knock in.

[P.E.R#14]

.

[brm7675]

Are you saying a 202 BA is acceptable?

It's just one number to look at when determining the value of a player.

[brm7675]

How do you know that for sure?



The Ryan Lamarre that has an OPS a whole .036 higher than Ludwick in the freaking Southern League, posting the holy grail of statistics .282 batting average? Not a chance.

Look at their actions...

[brm7675]

Let's dig into Ludwicks numbers a little and see what is going on. I will use Votto and then Heisey as comparisons.
First, Ludwick has had runners on base in 79 of 161 plate appearances, almost 50%. Votto has had runners on in 112 of 263 plate appearances, 43%, while Heisey has had runners on in 82 of 174 PA's (47%). Ludwick has also come up with 123 runners on base and Votto has had 148, and Heisey has had 106. So, Ludwick has averaged .92 runners on base per plate appearance. Votto averages .56 runner per plate appearance. Heisey averages .61 runner per plate appearance. Now, Ludwicks has knocked in 19 of those runners (I am subtracting home runs, where his run counts for an RBI, I will account for these later). So, Ludwick has gotten RBI's on 15% of his inherited runners. Votto has gotten RBI's on 20% of his inherited runners. Heisey has knocaked in 10% of his inherited runners. Now, lets count home runs. Ludwick 11.3%, Votto 10%, Heisey 4.4%.

So, Ludwick has made the most of his opportunities, but he has had way more opportunities (per PA) than Heisey.

Finally, two intersting things. First, Ludwick has come up to bat with the bases loaded 7 times (and Votto has only come up with bases loaded twice). Ludwick has 10 of his 27 RBI's in those situations. That seems like a statistical anomaly. The second interesting thing is that Votto had Ludwicks opportunities, he would have 60 RBIs right now (which would lead the NL by 5).

The real crime of this team isn't Ludwick (although the numbers suggest that Heisey is really bad), it is that the Reds can't get on for Votto to knock in.


No the crime is there are players who can get on base..problem is they are hitting after Votto...

[5TimeWSChamps]

Boom

[LaFlamaBlanca]

Look at their actions...

Which are? No indication either way that Walt is or isn't burning up the phone lines trying to make a deal for a 7. So I'm curious what actions in particular you might be referring to.

[improbus]

No the crime is there are players who can get on base..problem is they are hitting after Votto...

Hanigan is the only other Red other than Votto who is significantly above the league average in OBP. The league average is .318 and Phillips is .332, Frazier is .323, and Bruce is .326. None of those are stellar. If the Reds can simply revert to last years OBP (Bruce .341, Phillips .353, Stubbs .321), the offense will return to one of the top offenses in the NL.

[joshua]

Improbus is right. Once some key players start to get into their normal groove we're good to go. But then again, it seems that pitching is dominating around the league this year so who knows.

[brm7675]

Which are? No indication either way that Walt is or isn't burning up the phone lines trying to make a deal for a 7. So I'm curious what actions in particular you might be referring to.

Have they done anything? IF you are that upset with the play you make changes, you call up players, you change playing time, you do something. What exactly have Walt and dusty done?

[brm7675]

Hanigan is the only other Red other than Votto who is significantly above the league average in OBP. The league average is .318 and Phillips is .332, Frazier is .323, and Bruce is .326. None of those are stellar. If the Reds can simply revert to last years OBP (Bruce .341, Phillips .353, Stubbs .321), the offense will return to one of the top offenses in the NL.

What do you think our offense numbers might be if we say had the following batting order:

Phillips
Hanigan'
Votto
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Ludwick/Heisey
Stubbs

[improbus]

What do you think our offense numbers might be if we say had the following batting order:

Phillips
Hanigan'
Votto
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Ludwick/Heisey
Stubbs

Well, if Heisey is in the lineup, he needs to hit lead off or eighth, because he is awful with anyone on base.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Boom

[5TimeWSChamps]

:)

[Stray]

What do you think our offense numbers might be if we say had the following batting order:

Phillips
Hanigan'
Votto
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Ludwick/Heisey
Stubbs

I think Phillips is a way better cleanup hitter than Bruce at this point. I don't see any reason to move him now that he's getting in a groove there, but if Phillips ever went back to leadoff the next best candidate for the 4 hole would be Frazier imo.

[LaFlamaBlanca]

Have they done anything? IF you are that upset with the play you make changes, you call up players, you change playing time, you do something. What exactly have Walt and dusty done?

Make changes? Who on this roster can play in left? Frazier maybe, but he's busy at 3rd. Change playing time? Heisey has been receiving a lot of the ABs, because he's hitting better at this point in time. They haven't "done something" because it's not really the time to strike the hot stove, in terms of baseball trade deadlines. Doesn't mean they won't. They've just dealt with the best they have in LF, with little or no reserves, and continued forward. Doesn't mean whatsoever we won't see a deal for a LF come 07/31. BTW, LOVE your lineup listed in the next post.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Another hit :)

[5TimeWSChamps]

Another double

[Kingspoint]

Heisey had a very good May.

Ludwick is having a very good June. After his second at-bat today, he's hitting .269 w/ a .919 OPS in June.

[Larkin88]

Heisey had a very good May.

Ludwick is having a very good June. After his second at-bat today, he's hitting .269 w/ a .919 OPS in June.

Boy, it's almost like baseball is a streaky game, huh? ;)

[brm7675]

Boy, it's almost like baseball is a streaky game, huh? ;)

Unless you are Joey Votto then you just perform just about every day....:thumbup:

[5TimeWSChamps]

:-)

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Redlegs Homer]

This is why you don't make threads for a player in a slump. It looks silly when the player breaks out of it like Ludwick has.