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brm7675
06-15-2012, 03:12 PM
Gaithright?....nope
Negron.........nope
Heisey.........nope
Stubbs........nope

Valdez will be starting in CF tonight and hitting second...:thumbup:

MrRedLegger
06-15-2012, 03:13 PM
He had a heck of a game the last time he started...

Larkin88
06-15-2012, 03:15 PM
Guessing that they're expecting Stubbs back sometime this weekend. Both he and Heisey traveled with the team.

Votto4MVP
06-15-2012, 03:18 PM
We are coming off a sweep. Leading the central by 3 games. Have our top 2 starting centerfielders out. And starting a guy that had 3 hits last start.

And we are still complain about the lineup.

Jeeze

brm7675
06-15-2012, 03:24 PM
We are coming off a sweep. Leading the central by 3 games. Have our top 2 starting centerfielders out. And starting a guy that had 3 hits last start.

And we are still complain about the lineup.

Jeeze

Yep, because stupidity should never be excepted. Exactly how many games has Valdez played in CF in his career? What is considered probably the 3rd most important "defensive" position in the game behind Catcher and SS? We have Negron, who is very good in the field, got a couple of hits yesterday, and we go with Valdez, and then we hit him second? And on top of that we continue to play short handed. Yes we have a "whooping" 3 game lead, that should be at least 7-10 game lead with better mag't.

Ironman92
06-15-2012, 03:26 PM
I'd like to have seen Negron get the CF start. Not sure how long he'll be up....but let some teams see him, maybe he'd do pretty well and add a smidge of trade value.

P.E.R#14
06-15-2012, 03:27 PM
We are coming off a sweep. Leading the central by 3 games. Have our top 2 starting centerfielders out. And starting a guy that had 3 hits last start.

And we are still complain about the lineup.

Jeeze

If we win the World Series in 4 games, he'll complain about someone/something.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 03:29 PM
If we win the World Series in 4 games, he'll complain about someone/something.

If we don't do something right in a game darn right...

Larkin88
06-15-2012, 03:44 PM
If we win the World Series in 4 games, he'll complain about someone/something.

And start about a half dozen threads on the same topic.

TSJ55
06-15-2012, 03:47 PM
Yep, because stupidity should never be excepted...

:):D:laugh::lol:

herbdizzle
06-15-2012, 03:49 PM
Playing Valdez for tonight is OK considering the lineup options. Don't really see any difference at this point between Valdez & Negron. These are times where the secondary guys like Ludwick, Cairo, Hanigan, & Cozart need to step up and have solid games. I'm hoping Heisey is not out any significant length as he has been playing well lately and the lineup over the last 10 games with him hitting 1st/2nd seems to be consistently performing. I would like to see a trade made by the front office using our extra relievers to get a LHH OF bat in the next couple weeks.

The Reds are still in a good spot and this Indians series showed they have resilience coming off their most heart-breaking loss of the season to this point in the Tigers finale. If they can navigate this 6 game roadie at .500 or better I'll be feeling really happy.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 03:52 PM
Playing Valdez for tonight is OK considering the lineup options. Don't really see any difference at this point between Valdez & Negron. These are times where the secondary guys like Ludwick, Cairo, Hanigan, & Cozart need to step up and have solid games. I'm hoping Heisey is not out any significant length as he has been playing well lately and the lineup over the last 10 games with him hitting 1st/2nd seems to be consistently performing. I would like to see a trade made by the front office using our extra relievers to get a LHH OF bat in the next couple weeks.

The Reds are still in a good spot and this Indians series showed they have resilience coming off their most heart-breaking loss of the season to this point in the Tigers finale. If they can navigate this 6 game roadie at .500 or better I'll be feeling really happy.

Lets see option 1 has all of 3 innings experience in CF, the other is a CF...HUGE difference. You are asking someone with little to no experience play a key position in the field....

Heck why don't we put Votto behind the plate and move Rolen to first that way Frazier can still play 3rd....

Ironman92
06-15-2012, 03:56 PM
FWIW....two of the best plays I've ever seen a Reds CF make were by Jerry Hairston Jr.....he had minimal, if any experience there and only played a few games.....but he was as good as any Reds CF I have ever seen.....though just a few games.

herbdizzle
06-15-2012, 03:59 PM
Personally I would prefer Valdez to Negron. Neither one is an ideal option but Valdez has been playing better lately. Its picking nits really. Stay happy BRM.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 04:11 PM
Personally I would prefer Valdez to Negron. Neither one is an ideal option but Valdez has been playing better lately. Its picking nits really. Stay happy BRM.

Okay sure lets play someone at a position they have all of 3 innings experience at. While we are at it, to keep Fraziers bat in the lineup lets play him at SS, cause he played that in LL....

alett12
06-15-2012, 04:15 PM
I've got no problem with him playing there it isn't like they've got slot of options

R_Webb18
06-15-2012, 04:16 PM
tbh if either stubbs or heisey can't play id play valdez also. idk about batting 2nd but im not shocked by it.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 04:24 PM
So why is Kris Negron on this team? If your him and you see the team starting someone who has basically zero experience in one of the most important positions on the team over you, then I would really have to question my value to the team, or question the teams ability to make sound judgements.

TSJ55
06-15-2012, 04:31 PM
If you're Kris Negron you do what you're told. As a recent call up, he has no room to question anything and he should already be questioning his value to the team. Wait quietly until given the chance to demonstrate value and then take advantage of that chance.

AnythingCincy
06-15-2012, 04:32 PM
This is a complete joke. This is the problem when you have one extra pitcher in the pen and one less bench player.

Larkin88
06-15-2012, 04:35 PM
So why is Kris Negron on this team? If your him and you see the team starting someone who has basically zero experience in one of the most important positions on the team over you, then I would really have to question my value to the team, or question the teams ability to make sound judgements.

You do realize that in Negron's college career and about half of the time in the minors, that he has primarily played middle infield (especially shortstop) himself? Roles for super utility players are rarely narrowly defined.

Negron is here because we all saw enough Constanzo and the trade market for improving the bench hasn't heated up yet in this, the second week of June.

AnythingCincy
06-15-2012, 04:36 PM
He had a heck of a game the last time he started...

This is wrong that last time he started he was 0-3 with a walk and run scored.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 04:38 PM
This is a complete joke. This is the problem when you have one extra pitcher in the pen and one less bench player.


Lets not forget the catching issue. Dusty won't use them as PH and we don't know the health of Mesco who had to leave yesterday's game due to soreness...

markymark69
06-15-2012, 04:52 PM
Looking at this logically - and not from the standpoint of a Dusty hater, who is most of the time illogical. If your only other option is Kris Negron - do you really have an argument?

Personally I wish they would have DL'd Stubbs and brought up an outfielder, but with no OF's (who aren't injured) at Louisville on the 40-man - they would have drop someone else - which they probably do not want to do.

He could creative and put Bruce or Ludwick in center and the other in right with Frazier in left - but you still would have Valdez or Cairo in the line-up playing third.

Walt has tied Dusty's hands IMO - I don't think he has much choice here.

Stray
06-15-2012, 04:54 PM
I'm thinking Valdez will be fine. He's on the team because he can play anywhere.

I heard Stubbs wasn't too far off so it shouldn't be long.

jrandal9
06-15-2012, 05:13 PM
This is not a horrible move. FWIW, I think BRM could give Walter Matthau a run for his money to star in grumpy old men. Considering Valdez got some playing time at CF in spring training and that he is a UTILITY guy it is not a big deal. Let the game play out before we all go flying off the handle and jumping off the proverbial ledge. GO REDS!

jrandal9
06-15-2012, 05:22 PM
sorry for the awful writing6124

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Valdez has more games in the OF than Negron does in the bigs. And games is all that matters, right brm?

P.E.R#14
06-15-2012, 05:35 PM
sorry for the awful writing6124

:owned: :KoolAid:

texasdave
06-15-2012, 05:42 PM
As long as Votto and Phillips continue to hit this team will be alright.
Still it is a joke that it took Jocketty this long to DL Stubbs. Either Walt is incompetent or the medical people are incompetent. Or maybe a combination of both.

R_Webb18
06-15-2012, 05:45 PM
So why is Kris Negron on this team? If your him and you see the team starting someone who has basically zero experience in one of the most important positions on the team over you, then I would really have to question my value to the team, or question the teams ability to make sound judgements.

trust me kris n already knows he has not shot of staying. just having good time while he's there. he's batting like 200 in the minors i don't think the reds care what he thinks also.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 06:38 PM
trust me kris n already knows he has not shot of staying. just having good time while he's there. he's batting like 200 in the minors i don't think the reds care what he thinks also.

Then why is he on the team. Really if he is NOT good enough to play over someone who has never played the position he plays then why waste the roster spot. This isn't the NFL with 50+ players. The Reds have already reduced their bench by Dusty's saying he won't use the backup catcher as a PH cause he needs to have him catch if need be, so we are already at 24 man roster basically. NOW you bring up a player who you don't think is talented enough to start when needed? OMG...the 3 stooges could manager this roster better then Walt and Dusty are doing.

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 06:42 PM
Then why is he on the team. Really if he is NOT good enough to play over someone who has never played the position he plays then why waste the roster spot. This isn't the NFL with 50+ players. The Reds have already reduced their bench by Dusty's saying he won't use the backup catcher as a PH cause he needs to have him catch if need be, so we are already at 24 man roster basically. NOW you bring up a player who you don't think is talented enough to start when needed? OMG...the 3 stooges could manager this roster better then Walt and Dusty are doing.

He's here so that you won't complain about us having 22 players on our roster.

Seriously, have you looked at what we have in AAA? It's a joke. We have no depth. Almost everyone on our bench is basically there by default, not because they are a good option.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 06:47 PM
I'm thinking Valdez will be fine. He's on the team because he can play anywhere.

I heard Stubbs wasn't too far off so it shouldn't be long.


Well it won't be now till the 21st as they "crew" running the show finally decided he needed to be DL'ed so he is on retro to June 6. :thumbdown:

brm7675
06-15-2012, 06:49 PM
He's here so that you won't complain about us having 22 players on our roster.

Seriously, have you looked at what we have in AAA? It's a joke. We have no depth. Almost everyone on our bench is basically there by default, not because they are a good option.

Your right the talent level at AAA isn't much...but it's better then have zero option at all. If not having a full roster wasn't that big deal, then everyone would carry less cause it would save them money. Again the issue with lack of talent in AAA...Walt's fault...lack of carrying a full roster...Walt's fault....inability to judge finge talent over and over....Walt's fault...seeing a pattern here?:thumbup:

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 06:51 PM
Your right the talent level at AAA isn't much...but it's better then have zero option at all. If not having a full roster wasn't that big deal, then everyone would carry less cause it would save them money. Again the issue with lack of talent in AAA...Walt's fault...lack of carrying a full roster...Walt's fault....inability to judge finge talent over and over....Walt's fault...seeing a pattern here?:thumbup:

First place. Walt's fault.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 06:55 PM
First place. Walt's fault.

NOT at all..First place...Votto/Cueto/Phillips fault..had Walt done his job this team would be 12-15 games over .500...not where they are. This team is where it is due to the players, not mag't.

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 06:59 PM
NOT at all..First place...Votto/Cueto/Phillips fault..had Walt done his job this team would be 12-15 games over .500...not where they are. This team is where it is due to the players, not mag't.

What could Walt have done to make this team 12-15 games over .500 at this point in the season?

brm7675
06-15-2012, 07:13 PM
What could Walt have done to make this team 12-15 games over .500 at this point in the season?


Signed Carlos Beltran to start with and not spend the monies on Ludwick, Madsen, Harris and others. That right there I bet bumps us up by 2-3 wins. Second he doens't allow Dusty to ruin Chapman in the pen. Thirdly, he sits down and talks with Rolen and explains to him that he is no longer starter material and the Reds see him as an assest but as a bench player. Fourth he adds bench strength in the offseason with players like DeJeusses who signed with the Cubs. Fifth, he sits down with his manager and goes over the basics of baseball with Dusty and remind him when you have a talent like Votto, you want players hitting in front of him that...GET ON BASE. There were things to be done that he didnt' step up and do.

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 07:19 PM
Signed Carlos Beltran to start with and not spend the monies on Ludwick, Madsen, Harris and others. That right there I bet bumps us up by 2-3 wins. Second he doens't allow Dusty to ruin Chapman in the pen. Thirdly, he sits down and talks with Rolen and explains to him that he is no longer starter material and the Reds see him as an assest but as a bench player. Fourth he adds bench strength in the offseason with players like DeJeusses who signed with the Cubs. Fifth, he sits down with his manager and goes over the basics of baseball with Dusty and remind him when you have a talent like Votto, you want players hitting in front of him that...GET ON BASE. There were things to be done that he didnt' step up and do.

You must play fantasy baseball.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 07:21 PM
You must play fantasy baseball.

Huh? How is what Walt should have done fantasy?

AnythingCincy
06-15-2012, 07:35 PM
wow!

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 07:50 PM
Huh? How is what Walt should have done fantasy?

BTW, when you play Monopoly, you don't really get money.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 07:53 PM
BTW, when you play Monopoly, you don't really get money.

The monies spent on Madsen/Ludwick and others would have covered Beltran. As for the others...umm if you can shell out $200 million and $60 million within a few weeks of each other for 2 players, you can't scream poverty.

smixsell
06-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Nothing wrong with Valdez in CF over Negron IMO, especially since Valdez knows how to play the game the right way AND has been contributing at the plate recently.

RedsFanInBama
06-15-2012, 09:09 PM
The monies spent on Madsen/Ludwick and others would have covered Beltran. As for the others...umm if you can shell out $200 million and $60 million within a few weeks of each other for 2 players, you can't scream poverty.

Stop bringing Ludwick into this. he's making peanuts.

herbdizzle
06-15-2012, 09:27 PM
I think we should all agree to ignore BRM as it is obvious all he does is sit on his computer 24/7 and think of cranky ways to criticize the Reds and each player on the team.

R_Webb18
06-15-2012, 09:28 PM
Then why is he on the team. Really if he is NOT good enough to play over someone who has never played the position he plays then why waste the roster spot. This isn't the NFL with 50+ players. The Reds have already reduced their bench by Dusty's saying he won't use the backup catcher as a PH cause he needs to have him catch if need be, so we are already at 24 man roster basically. NOW you bring up a player who you don't think is talented enough to start when needed? OMG...the 3 stooges could manager this roster better then Walt and Dusty are doing.

incase u need him. injury ect

R_Webb18
06-15-2012, 09:32 PM
i mean brm atleast if ur gonna post make sense

you don't bring up a guy in the MINORS and play him ahead of some1 already on the MLB ROASTER. Use some common sense its not hard.

of course there not good enough. there only up b/c some1 is hurt. yes they will bat instead of the pitcher if we need them to or run for some1.

this is not hard to understand

god am i talking to a 5 year old.

herbdizzle
06-15-2012, 10:01 PM
Wilson Valdez with two hits tonight and 3 RBI. Great job filling in. He's been playing well since he shaved his lame ass blonde boy band goatee.

Votto4MVP
06-15-2012, 10:28 PM
Wilson Valdez with two hits tonight and 3 RBI. Great job filling in. He's been playing well since he shaved his lame ass blonde boy band goatee.

Brm is striking out a faster pace than Adam Dunn and drew Stubbs combined.

redobsession
06-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Well now that Valdez has finally got it going time to get Wilkes Harris some starts so he can get going.:bash::bang:

redobsession
06-15-2012, 10:35 PM
Brm is striking out a faster pace than Adam Dunn and drew Stubbs combined.

Now that's fast!.....faster than Jimmy Johns.

brm7675
06-15-2012, 10:36 PM
Stop bringing Ludwick into this. he's making peanuts.

What do u consider peanuts?

brm7675
06-15-2012, 10:39 PM
i mean brm atleast if ur gonna post make sense

you don't bring up a guy in the MINORS and play him ahead of some1 already on the MLB ROASTER. Use some common sense its not hard.

of course there not good enough. there only up b/c some1 is hurt. yes they will bat instead of the pitcher if we need them to or run for some1.

this is not hard to understand

god am i talking to a 5 year old.

You really don't understand the game do you? You really think playing someone at a key position who has no experience playing there is smart because Dusty says so?

RedsFanInBama
06-16-2012, 02:34 AM
Great job Valdez. Contributed in a big way to a win tonight. Three huge RBI.

RedsFanInBama
06-16-2012, 02:42 AM
What do u consider peanuts?

What Ludwick is making.

RedsFanInBama
06-16-2012, 02:43 AM
You really don't understand the game do you? You really think playing someone at a key position who has no experience playing there is smart because Dusty says so?

You're acting like Negron is some kind of defensive whiz in the outfield. He's not. He's a utility man, and a natural infielder, just like Valdez.

brm7675
06-16-2012, 11:11 AM
What Ludwick is making.


Wow..to consider two million peanuts u must be very rich...

PumpFak3First
06-16-2012, 11:53 AM
Wow..to consider two million peanuts u must be very rich...

Well considering the average player in the league makes 3.4 million yea it's sort of peanutish

RedsFanInBama
06-16-2012, 12:06 PM
Wow..to consider two million peanuts u must be very rich...

Everything is relative. Besides, you're the one acting like the Reds are playing with monopoly money in the off-season.

Old NDN
06-17-2012, 10:15 AM
I haven't seen this in Sundeck yet, but this is an informative article about the Stubbs situation:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/reds-need-center-fielder-and-left-fielder/

Apparently, some of us Sundeckers aren't the only ones that believe Stubbs isn't getting it done.

OGB
06-17-2012, 10:39 AM
I haven't seen this in Sundeck yet, but this is an informative article about the Stubbs situation:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/reds-need-center-fielder-and-left-fielder/

Apparently, some of us Sundeckers aren't the only ones that believe Stubbs isn't getting it done.

Fangraphs pretty much hit the nail on the head. The more I watch this team
The more it occurs to me that this team might be good enough to win it all with the addition of one more productive, high OBP bat in the OF. If they went to the postseason this year and one or more of Stubbs, Heisey, or Ludwick pulled a '95 Reggie Sanders, I'd have a hard time forgiving them and Walt Jocketty for allowing it to happen.

jrandal9
06-18-2012, 09:18 AM
BRM where are you? *crickets* Hope that Valdez crow tastes DELICIOUS!! What a great series for our guys and Valdez may have been the MVP of said series. Came up huge! Not saying I want him to start full time but he is very serviceable. GO REDS!

Larkin88
06-18-2012, 09:37 AM
BRM where are you? *crickets* Hope that Valdez crow tastes DELICIOUS!! What a great series for our guys and Valdez may have been the MVP of said series. Came up huge! Not saying I want him to start full time but he is very serviceable. GO REDS!

Careful what you wish for. In my time on this board I've never once seen him say something positive or admit how very wrong he was. Even when he was trying to argue that winning percentages are less important than a teams total number of wins.

He's just going to come back whining about something else and building up lots of straw man arguments about stuff.

P.E.R#14
06-18-2012, 12:37 PM
In the last seven games, The ONLY Reds with RBI's are as follows:
BP 10
Bruce 7
Votto 6
VALDEZ 5
Ludwick 4

He's also batting .304 in the last 7.

Valdez has done Nothing wrong in my opinion. No misplayed balls, no extremely poor AB's. Give the guy a break. He's a kid. I'm glad he's a Red.