Juan Francisco

[OGB]

Is hitting .222, OBP .243, 5 HR, 33 Ks and 3 walks in 103 ABs. Also sporting a .917 Fld%

Anybody still want to talk trash about the decision to deal him and keep Frazier? I wish I had a tally of everyone who was up in arms about this deal two months ago.

I was certainly wrong about adding Simon. I'd have to say the Francisco trade and Simon signing have been huge keys to the Reds successful start.

[RedsFanInBama]

Simon needs to be used more. Having one long man in Lecure is enough. Our bullpen is great, but utilizing Simon as a legitimate weapon would make it even better.

[R_Webb18]

im kinda suprised on frazier but i was right on juan f. i never thought he was good even tho his minor numbers looked good

[read favorite]

Great point

I will step up and admit

I was totally wrong about favoring Francisoc over Frazier, I blew it

I was totally right about useless Rolen though

[LaFlamaBlanca]

Is hitting .222, OBP .243, 5 HR, 33 Ks and 3 walks in 103 ABs. Also sporting a .917 Fld%

Anybody still want to talk trash about the decision to deal him and keep Frazier? I wish I had a tally of everyone who was up in arms about this deal two months ago.

I was certainly wrong about adding Simon. I'd have to say the Francisco trade and Simon signing have been huge keys to the Reds successful start.

Huge keys? You mean Hoover with his 16.2 IP and 0 WAR, and Simon with his 24.2 IP and .4 WAR? They've been nice pick ups, but I have to disagree with the term huge key. JV, Frazier knocking the cover off the ball, Arroyo's return from oblivion, and Cueto being one of the best pitchers in the league have all been much much bigger factors.

[Krawhitham]

Francisco needs to play everyday to hit, comeback next year after chipper is gone and we'll talk

[RedsFanInBama]

Francisco needs to play everyday to hit, comeback next year after chipper is gone and we'll talk

Chipper has been hurt for a big part of the season, and Gonzalez decided after riding Juan for a stretch early in the year, to move Prado out of the OF and into third base rather than let Francisco continue to play. I'm not sure how bright a future he has, to be honest with you. He's obviously still young, but when you can't play defense and you strike out almost 30 percent of the time you step to the plate, you're going to have a tough time gaining the trust of a manager to put you in the lineup every day.

[OGB]

Huge keys? You mean Hoover with his 16.2 IP and 0 WAR, and Simon with his 24.2 IP and .4 WAR? They've been nice pick ups, but I have to disagree with the term huge key. JV, Frazier knocking the cover off the ball, Arroyo's return from oblivion, and Cueto being one of the best pitchers in the league have all been much much bigger factors.

Are you honestly bringing up WAR 65 games into the season? I'm talking about 2 pitchers who have combined to throw 41.1 innings and give up eleven earned while striking out 43 and walking 12.
The other huge key I was referring to was the addition by subtraction of Francisco. Juan was out of options, so he would've been sitting on our bench and putting up lousy numbers. His departure opened up room for Todd Frazier who has flourished and been one of the most clutch hitters on the team.
Also keep in mind that Hoover and Simon took the places of the two of the top three returning arms from last year's pen. Take them away and Carlos Fischer and Nick Christiani are most likely sitting in the Reds pen.
I stand by my previous statement.

[justincredible]

Juan Francisco was/is a fat waste. After coming in to camp fat and out of shape I was extremely happy Walt was able to move him. Hoover + Frazier is far, far, far better than Juan. Heck, Frazier with one arm tied behind his back is better than Juan.

[CrosleyField]

Juan Francisco was/is a fat waste. After coming in to camp fat and out of shape I was extremely happy Walt was able to move him. Hoover + Frazier is far, far, far better than Juan. Heck, Frazier with one arm tied behind his back is better than Juan.

+1

[Captain13]

Chipper has been hurt for a big part of the season, and Gonzalez decided after riding Juan for a stretch early in the year, to move Prado out of the OF and into third base rather than let Francisco continue to play. I'm not sure how bright a future he has, to be honest with you. He's obviously still young, but when you can't play defense and you strike out almost 30 percent of the time you step to the plate, you're going to have a tough time gaining the trust of a manager to put you in the lineup every day.

See Edwin Encarnacion. Juan could be a good ballplayer for somebody, someday, but it will most likely be as a DH.

[malcontent]

See Edwin Encarnacion. Juan could be a good ballplayer for somebody, someday, but it will most likely be as a DH.
I completely agree. He'll never have decent plate discipline but that bat will play at DH.

[Girevik]

Juan Francisco was/is a fat waste. After coming in to camp fat and out of shape I was extremely happy Walt was able to move him. Hoover + Frazier is far, far, far better than Juan. Heck, Frazier with one arm tied behind his back is better than Juan.

While I was a bit shocked that Fracisco was traded, I agree with the point about coming in out of shape. I think that was a deal made because of lack of work ethic rather than lack of talent.

Who's to say? Maybe that will be the kick in the rump to get Francisco motivated and he'll start working in the off season and he'll end up doing things he never would have done had the Reds continue to let him coast.

[justincredible]

While I was a bit shocked that Fracisco was traded, I agree with the point about coming in out of shape. I think that was a deal made because of lack of work ethic rather than lack of talent.

Who's to say? Maybe that will be the kick in the rump to get Francisco motivated and he'll start working in the off season and he'll end up doing things he never would have done had the Reds continue to let him coast.

Absolutely. Talent only gets you so far and it was getting Juan no where within this organization. If he turns it around for the Braves or someone else, good for him. But he definitely had no business being in the Reds organization anymore.

[RedsFanInBama]

See Edwin Encarnacion. Juan could be a good ballplayer for somebody, someday, but it will most likely be as a DH.

I don't see many similarities other than being poor defensive players. Juan's plate discipline and command of the strike zone aren't even close to what Encarnacion demonstrated at the same age.

[OGB]

See Edwin Encarnacion. Juan could be a good ballplayer for somebody, someday, but it will most likely be as a DH.

Francisco went into this season as a 25 year old. At the end of EE's season at 25, he had amamassed 1843 big league ABs, hit 103 doubles, 66 HRs, had only 326 Ks, and was getting on base at a rate between. 066 and. 089 points higher than his BA.
There is absolutely zero comparison between the 2.
At the end of the day, the Reds traded EE because he didn't appear to make much progress between 2006 and 2009 and he was only getting more expensive in that time. In fact, other than his 2008 HR output, his numbers were getting worse for the most part from age 23 to 26.
He wasn't a bad player, just not worth what the Reds would've been paying him through arbitration considering his BA was on a pretty dramatic down swing.

[R_Webb18]

Francisco needs to play everyday to hit, comeback next year after chipper is gone and we'll talk

he might play everyday in triple a

[P.E.R#14]

I remember the days of watching Fransisco make an unbelieveable diving stop at third and throw a srtike to.......the guy in the fourth row...c'est la vie

[joshua]

you strike out almost 30 percent of the time you step to the plate, you're going to have a tough time gaining the trust of a manager to put you in the lineup every day.

Unless you're Drew Stubbs and your manager is Dusty Baker.

[bigredmechanism]

Great point

I will step up and admit

I was totally wrong about favoring Francisoc over Frazier, I blew it

I was totally right about useless Rolen though

I'm with you. i thought Francisco was going to be a stud.

[Mr Larkin]

Baseball fans in general, it seems, tend to think that the players in their minor leagues are going to be the next MVP/Cy Young winners.
It is much more healthy to take a wait and see attitude. JF had potential, but he has never shown that he would be a great player. EE was also underachieving - I'm glad he has finally come around, but the Reds did not have time to wait for him to develop.