Wandy Rodriguez

[Pony Boy]

I'm surprised that Wandy hasnt been discussed as a potential target this season. I have always had the feeling that the Reds' brass was enamored with him. Werent there rumors in 2010 that the Reds were making a run at him?

Anyway the Astros are clearly sellers and would probably contribute some cash to the deal. I think Homer for Wandy makes some sense.

[webbbj]

No. Wandy is only marginally better, older, more expensive and a rental. And the pitching is already very good. If bailey goes anywhere it better be for a big bat.

[Assembly Hall]

I dont understand why people keep talking pitching as a trade target. We are fine in that department and the only way I would get rid our starters is if we could get a bonafide ace........and lock him up for a few years. We already have two soft tossers on the team, no need to add a third. Now if the Stros would be willing to eat Wandy's contract........I am all for trading Sam Lecure for him straight up.

[BungleBengals]

Agreed. We are set in the pitching department. Our starting rotation is one of the few if not the only rotation in the MLB that has only used 5 different starters. If the Reds do trade for starting pitching, I would rather prefer Garza or Hamels, preferably Hamels. We could probably get him a little cheaper since he is going to be a FA next year. Plus it would be great to add a lefty to our starting rotation.

[Who Dey Time]

Trading for a starting pitcher will not happen, IMO. In fact, I am of the opinion that there will not be a trade for what would be considered a starting player. I could be wrong but I don't see Quentin or Pierre being traded here and those are the two guys that are thought of as our highest priority targets.

[Trajinous]

We don't need starting pitching!!!!

Even if one pitcher gets hurt. The Reds will pry their head out of their arse and move Chapman to the rotation. Then plug Marshall back to closing and move up Simon or even wait for Masset to fill the bullpen role. We need a batter to compliment BP, Votto and Bruce.

[Who Dey Time]

We don't need starting pitching!!!!

Even if one pitcher gets hurt. The Reds will pry their head out of their arse and move Chapman to the rotation. Then plug Marshall back to closing and move up Simon or even wait for Masset to fill the bullpen role. We need a batter to compliment BP, Votto and Bruce.

It would be Simon or LeCure going into the rotation if that happened. Chapman is not going anywhere in 2012.

[Assembly Hall]

We don't need starting pitching!!!!

Even if one pitcher gets hurt. The Reds will pry their head out of their arse and move Chapman to the rotation. Then plug Marshall back to closing and move up Simon or even wait for Masset to fill the bullpen role. We need a batter to compliment BP, Votto and Bruce.

Yes sir. People also forget that Masset and Marshall were former starters as well. We dont need pitching period, from the starters to the pen.

[texasdave]

Trading for a starting pitcher will not happen, IMO. In fact, I am of the opinion that there will not be a trade for what would be considered a starting player. I could be wrong but I don't see Quentin or Pierre being traded here and those are the two guys that are thought of as our highest priority targets.

This.

I don't see any moves being made. If they bring someone aboard who goes? Rolen? No. Valdez? No. Cairo? No. I am not saying any of these three shouldn't go. But I just don't see it.

[brm7675]

1. Obtaining Wandy would then say open up the possibility of using maybe either Leake or Homer to obtain a bat.

2. We are thin at lefty starters

3. You never have enough pitching, ask TX or the Yankees.

With all that said, Reds don't have or won't be willing to give up the prospects the Stros will want to get him...

[brm7675]

Yes sir. People also forget that Masset and Marshall were former starters as well. We dont need pitching period, from the starters to the pen.

Marshall was NOT an effective starter so he is out...and exactly WHERE is Masset right now...oh wait.. the 60 day DL...so neither are even close to being consider "starting" material.

[krm1580]

Despite playing their home games in a launching pad the Reds are currently 3rd in the NL in pitching. If you remove their home games and just look at their road stats, they are the #1 pitching team, not in the NL, but in ALL OF BASEBALL!

Conversely, despite playing half their games in a launching pad, they are in the bottom half of the league in pretty much every "slash" category excecpt slugging. Pull Joey Votto out of the mix and they numbers would really look weak.

The bottom line if the Reds are going to move prospects in order to improve this team the discussion starts and ends with bats.

[bigredmechanism]

Despite playing their home games in a launching pad the Reds are currently 3rd in the NL in pitching. If you remove their home games and just look at their road stats, they are the #1 pitching team, not in the NL, but in ALL OF BASEBALL!

Conversely, despite playing half their games in a launching pad, they are in the bottom half of the league in pretty much every "slash" category excecpt slugging. Pull Joey Votto out of the mix and they numbers would really look weak.

The bottom line if the Reds are going to move prospects in order to improve this team the discussion starts and ends with bats.

Agreed on both parts. A trade of Homer for Wandy would look atrocious. I really think that if Bailey weren't in GABP his stats would look terrific. He's a very sold #3 IMO. Same goes for Leake and Bronson.

I don't know if we have the pieces to do it, or if it's even worth doing, but if we add an impact player it needs to be a hitter.

[krm1580]

Agreed on both parts. A trade of Homer for Wandy would look atrocious. I really think that if Bailey weren't in GABP his stats would look terrific. He's a very sold #3 IMO. Same goes for Leake and Bronson.

I don't know if we have the pieces to do it, or if it's even worth doing, but if we add an impact player it needs to be a hitter.

His numbers away from GABP this year are 6-2, 2.93 ERA, 1.07 WHIP.

If you take out the 2 rough starts in June, for the rest of the season he is 7-4 with a 3.51 era. Unless you are getting something huge in return I have no interest in trading him.

[Krawhitham]

This team does not need more pitching, it needs a consistent hitter in the vain of .290 20/75. This team only has 3 consistent hitters; Votto, Hanigan, Stubbs

Votto is well Vottomatic, a slump is 2 weeks of him hitting .300
Hanigan while consistent in average he has no pop or speed and only plays 60% of games due to his position. When Hanigan got more playing time his numbers slid
Stubbs is just consistently bad

Frazier might be that consistent bat but as long as Rolen is off the DL we will never find out

All the others are hot for a bit and then cold for a while
Bruce is by far the worse he will be white hot for 2 weeks and then ice cold for 5 weeks.
BP is the next worse, he will have 10 great days on and two weeks off
Cozart started on fire then had 5 bad weeks, since then he will have 2 good weeks then 2 not so good weeks, but his hot and cold is not to the extreme as with players like Bruce & BP

You can not know if anyone else is a consistent bat because of all the lineup changes

The only spots where they Reds can add another bat is LF or CF, the other position are locked down.

I think this team would be a lot better with Stubbs on the bench and HI-C in CF with Ludwick in LF. HI-C is a better defender (yes check the stats) and as long as HI-C is not a blackhole in the lineup he is an improvement. Ludwick might have a low average but he has pop and seems to get big hits when you need them and would be a great 6/7 hole guy. You could then bring Stubbs in late when you need a base stolen.

LF is not the void everyone claims, break down by position


C 25 Runs, 7 HR, 24 RBI, .248 AVG
1B 51 Runs, 14 HR, 51 RBI, .340 AVG
2B 46 Runs, 10 HR, 51 RBI, .268 AVG
SS 51 Runs, 9 HR, 20 RBI, .250 AVG
3B 35 Runs, 12 HR, 42 RBI, .209 AVG
LF 29 Runs, 12 HR, 41 RBI, .247 AVG
CF 54 Runs, 10 HR, 28 RBI, .225 AVG
RF 47 Runs, 18 HR, 56 RBI, .243 AVG

My ideal lineup with current plays

#1 2B Phillips, not the speed you want for #1 but it will be hard to hit into a DP in the leadoff spot
#2 CF Hi-C has better OBP than Cozart, so more RBI chances for Votto
#3 Votto
#4 3B Frazier, tell Rolen his starting days are over, Frazier is having a better rookie season that Harper
#5 RF Bruce, too inconsistent for the #4 hole
#6 LF Ludwick, if Bruce does not drive in the run maybe Ludwick will
#7 SS Cozart, Will improve and move up the lineup next season
#8 C Hanigan/Mesoraco

[brm7675]

This team does not need more pitching, it needs a consistent hitter in the vain of .290 20/75. This team only has 3 consistent hitters; Votto, Hanigan, Stubbs

Votto is well Vottomatic, a slump is 2 weeks of him hitting .300
Hanigan while consistent in average he has no pop or speed and only plays 60% of games due to his position. When Hanigan got more playing time his numbers slid
Stubbs is just consistently bad

Frazier might be that consistent bat but as long as Rolen is off the DL we will never find out

All the others are hot for a bit and then cold for a while
Bruce is by far the worse he will be white hot for 2 weeks and then ice cold for 5 weeks.
BP is the next worse, he will have 10 great days on and two weeks off
Cozart started on fire then had 5 bad weeks, since then he will have 2 good weeks then 2 not so good weeks, but his hot and cold is not to the extreme as with players like Bruce & BP

You can not know if anyone else is a consistent bat because of all the lineup changes

The only spots where they Reds can add another bat is LF or CF, the other position are locked down.

I think this team would be a lot better with Stubbs on the bench and HI-C in CF with Ludwick in LF. HI-C is a better defender (yes check the stats) and as long as HI-C is not a blackhole in the lineup he is an improvement. Ludwick might have a low average but he has pop and seems to get big hits when you need them and would be a great 6/7 hole guy. You could then bring Stubbs in late when you need a base stolen.

LF is not the void everyone claims, break down by position


C 25 Runs, 7 HR, 24 RBI, .248 AVG
1B 51 Runs, 14 HR, 51 RBI, .340 AVG
2B 46 Runs, 10 HR, 51 RBI, .268 AVG
SS 51 Runs, 9 HR, 20 RBI, .250 AVG
3B 35 Runs, 12 HR, 42 RBI, .209 AVG
LF 29 Runs, 12 HR, 41 RBI, .247 AVG
CF 54 Runs, 10 HR, 28 RBI, .225 AVG
RF 47 Runs, 18 HR, 56 RBI, .243 AVG

My ideal lineup with current plays

#1 2B Phillips, not the speed you want for #1 but it will be hard to hit into a DP in the leadoff spot
#2 CF Hi-C has better OBP than Cozart, so more RBI chances for Votto
#3 Votto
#4 3B Frazier, tell Rolen his starting days are over, Frazier is having a better rookie season that Harper
#5 RF Bruce, too inconsistent for the #4 hole
#6 LF Ludwick, if Bruce does not drive in the run maybe Ludwick will
#7 SS Cozart, Will improve and move up the lineup next season
#8 C Hanigan/Mesoraco

Problem is there isn't that hitter out there and what hitters are...will fetch 203 maybe 4 players with 1 or 2 being top prospects...

Oh and should one of our starters go down, whom replaces him? Are you okay with Sam being that guy?

[Assembly Hall]

Marshall was NOT an effective starter so he is out...and exactly WHERE is Masset right now...oh wait.. the 60 day DL...so neither are even close to being consider "starting" material.

That doesnt matter......my response was to how pictching rich we are. Hell we have two guys in the pen right now with starting experience and another that they want to make into one and that doesnt even include Masset.

[Assembly Hall]

Problem is there isn't that hitter out there and what hitters are...will fetch 203 maybe 4 players with 1 or 2 being top prospects...

Oh and should one of our starters go down, whom replaces him? Are you okay with Sam being that guy?

If it is a start or two....I am.

[brm7675]

That doesnt matter......my response was to how pictching rich we are. Hell we have two guys in the pen right now with starting experience and another that they want to make into one and that doesnt even include Masset.

Having "experience" and being a good starting pitcher is two different things. Heck we have experience in AAA, but I wouldn't want them in our starting rotation. We are rich in bullpen arms, but very limited in starting pitching.

[brm7675]

If it is a start or two....I am.

Lets say it's more, are you okay then?

[OGB]

Having "experience" and being a good starting pitcher is two different things. Heck we have experience in AAA, but I wouldn't want them in our starting rotation. We are rich in bullpen arms, but very limited in starting pitching.

How many teams in baseball have a 6th/7th SP option better than Lecure and Simon?

[brm7675]

How many teams in baseball have a 6th/7th SP option better than Lecure and Simon?

But if you could improve that area wouldn't you? Also is either Lecure or Simon lefties?

[Trajinous]

Chapman is this team's 6th starter and LeCure 7th. Marshall would close.

[Assembly Hall]

Lets say it's more, are you okay then?

I will say I will cross that bridge when I come to it. All speculation my friend. Wandy does not help this team at all if we give up one of our young starters for him.

[brm7675]

Chapman is this team's 6th starter and LeCure 7th. Marshall would close.

Reds have already said Chapman won't be starting this year as HE is the closer and that won't change this year.

[brm7675]

I will say I will cross that bridge when I come to it. All speculation my friend. Wandy does not help this team at all if we give up one of our young starters for him.

I would trade either Leake or Homer for him in a heart beat. Latos no, but the other two without question and I love Leake..but to get Wandy..you do it.

[The Rage]

I would trade either Leake or Homer for him in a heart beat. Latos no, but the other two without question and I love Leake..but to get Wandy..you do it.

What a waste of a trade. Lets trade cheaper 20 something arms for a 30 something arm nearing decline. This board at times.....:eek:

[brm7675]

What a waste of a trade. Lets trade cheaper 20 something arms for a 30 something arm nearing decline. This board at times.....:eek:

what do you consider "declining"? I am willing to bet Wandy has at least a good 3-4 good to very good years left. Exactly what this team needs is a good strong lefty starting pitcher.

[Cant Touch This]

I just don't follow the logic or the love for Wandy here. The guy's WHIP and BAA have increased each of the last four years, and the last time he faced the Reds they banged out 9 hits and put up 7 ER against him in 5 innings. He's a serviceable pitcher and nothing more - there is no more upside to him than what he's shown through his career and it looks like he already peaked. To give up Leake or Bailey for him would be tragic.

Plus, his name is f'n Wandy.

[IamRV]

I just don't follow the logic or the love for Wandy here. The guy's WHIP and BAA have increased each of the last four years, and the last time he faced the Reds they banged out 9 hits and put up 7 ER against him in 5 innings. He's a serviceable pitcher and nothing more - there is no more upside to him than what he's shown through his career and it looks like he already peaked. To give up Leake or Bailey for him would be tragic.

Plus, his name is f'n Wandy.

True dat!

[IamRV]

This team does not need more pitching, it needs a consistent hitter in the vain of .290 20/75. This team only has 3 consistent hitters; Votto, Hanigan, Stubbs

Votto is well Vottomatic, a slump is 2 weeks of him hitting .300
Hanigan while consistent in average he has no pop or speed and only plays 60% of games due to his position. When Hanigan got more playing time his numbers slid
Stubbs is just consistently bad

Frazier might be that consistent bat but as long as Rolen is off the DL we will never find out

All the others are hot for a bit and then cold for a while
Bruce is by far the worse he will be white hot for 2 weeks and then ice cold for 5 weeks.
BP is the next worse, he will have 10 great days on and two weeks off
Cozart started on fire then had 5 bad weeks, since then he will have 2 good weeks then 2 not so good weeks, but his hot and cold is not to the extreme as with players like Bruce & BP

You can not know if anyone else is a consistent bat because of all the lineup changes

The only spots where they Reds can add another bat is LF or CF, the other position are locked down.

I think this team would be a lot better with Stubbs on the bench and HI-C in CF with Ludwick in LF. HI-C is a better defender (yes check the stats) and as long as HI-C is not a blackhole in the lineup he is an improvement. Ludwick might have a low average but he has pop and seems to get big hits when you need them and would be a great 6/7 hole guy. You could then bring Stubbs in late when you need a base stolen.

LF is not the void everyone claims, break down by position


C 25 Runs, 7 HR, 24 RBI, .248 AVG
1B 51 Runs, 14 HR, 51 RBI, .340 AVG
2B 46 Runs, 10 HR, 51 RBI, .268 AVG
SS 51 Runs, 9 HR, 20 RBI, .250 AVG
3B 35 Runs, 12 HR, 42 RBI, .209 AVG
LF 29 Runs, 12 HR, 41 RBI, .247 AVG
CF 54 Runs, 10 HR, 28 RBI, .225 AVG
RF 47 Runs, 18 HR, 56 RBI, .243 AVG

My ideal lineup with current plays

#1 2B Phillips, not the speed you want for #1 but it will be hard to hit into a DP in the leadoff spot
#2 CF Hi-C has better OBP than Cozart, so more RBI chances for Votto
#3 Votto
#4 3B Frazier, tell Rolen his starting days are over, Frazier is having a better rookie season that Harper
#5 RF Bruce, too inconsistent for the #4 hole
#6 LF Ludwick, if Bruce does not drive in the run maybe Ludwick will
#7 SS Cozart, Will improve and move up the lineup next season
#8 C Hanigan/Mesoraco

All excellent points. The only lineup change I would make with the current roster would be to move Cozart from 7th to 9th. I know it won't happen but would actually cause Votto to bat cleanup after the first inning thereby giving the more possibility of him coming to bat with guys on base.

A trade needs to happen in that we bring in a guy like Gerardo Parra to actually platoon with Stubbs and bat them second. Stubbs actually does a decent job batting second and against LHP.