7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

[cumberlandreds]

Here's todays lineup. Bruce is back. Looks like everyone else stayed the same.


1. Drew Stubbs (R) CF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=stubbdr01&year=Career&t=b)
2. Zack Cozart (R) SS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cozarza01&year=Career&t=b)
3. Brandon Phillips (R) 2B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=phillbr01&year=Career&t=b)
4. Jay Bruce (L) RF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=bruceja01&year=Career&t=b)
5. Ryan Ludwick (R) LF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=ludwiry01&year=Career&t=b)
6. Scott Rolen (R) 3B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=rolensc01&year=Career&t=b)
7. Todd Frazier (R) 1B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=frazito01&year=Career&t=b)
8. Ryan Hanigan (R) C (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=hanigry01&year=Career&t=b)
9. Mat Latos (R) P (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=latosma01&year=Career&t=b)

[Reds Fanatic]

I will be heading down to tonight's game a little later. Hopefully the weather holds out. Not a good forecast for tonight or tomorrow:


Tonight Showers and thunderstorms likely, mainly before 9pm. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 74. West wind around 5 mph becoming calm in the evening. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New rainfall amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.

Thursday Showers and thunderstorms likely, mainly after 11am. Partly sunny, with a high near 92. Calm wind becoming west 5 to 7 mph in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New rainfall amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.

[Reds Fanatic]

Diamondbacks lineup:

Drew SS
Hill 2B
Kubel LF
Montero C
Upton RF
Goldschmidt 1B
Parra CF
Roberts 3B
Kennedy P

[BearcatShane]

Its raining extremely hard. I predict a start time of 9:20.

[REDREAD]

Interesting tidbit from a game preview:


The Reds, who lost Latos' first three starts, are 11-4 with him on the mound since.


:thumbup:

[RedlegJake]

Cards lost Pirates won. Win tonight and push the Birds farther back.

[RedlegJake]

I wish it would rain here - hotter than Hades in Missouri - 100 degrees and 115 with the heat index muggy as all get out

[_Sir_Charles_]

I wish it would rain here - hotter than Hades in Missouri - 100 degrees and 115 with the heat index muggy as all get out

I'd be thrilled to send you some of ours. It's rained every day here for about 2 weeks straight. And it's always 100 degrees here. Pretty common when I live on the surface of the sun.

[Tom Servo]

Damn. 2-0 Snakes off a Kubel HR.

[redsfaninbsg]

Latos not looking good early.

[VottoFan54]

Kubel 2 run HR

[RedlegJake]

I know Dusty doesn't usually play new guys right away but I had hoped to see lefty Xavier Paul in the lineup against the righty Kennedy

[RedlegJake]

well that was quick

[RedlegJake]

settle down Mat...kicking the mound hard...he's ticked at himself

[RedlegJake]

5-3 middle of 1st 2-0 Snakes

[RedlegJake]

Latos got three ground outs in the first but a Hill single and Kubel homer gives the DBacks a 2-0 lead.

[Tom Servo]

Good start with a Stubbs leadoff double

[RedlegJake]

Stubbs doubles into left center gap

[RedlegJake]

Crud - lousy pop up to pitcher bunt by Cozart. Terrible!

[Tom Servo]

Why the hell do they have Cozart bunting in that situation?

[redsfaninbsg]

Bunting there may be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen

[_Sir_Charles_]

For some reason, that didn't look like a good bunt. Am I off base on that one? *rolls eyes*

[_Sir_Charles_]

Why the hell do they have Cozart bunting in that situation?

That was him I'd say. I don't think that was called.

[RedlegJake]

BP with an infield single Stubbs to third

[RedlegJake]

Bruce with a first pitch pop up - another terrible at bat

[Degenerate39]

He should put that weight back on

[RedlegJake]

Ludwick with a looping bleeder that the SS grabs. Runners die.

[Tom Servo]

thought Ludwick had come through again for a second :(

[RedlegJake]

Cozart and Bruce with 2 absolutely gosh-awful at bats. Pathetic.

[redsfaninbsg]

Isn't it time for Bruce to get hot again?

[RedlegJake]

This team gives away more at bats than any team I watch and I watch a lot of games in MLB.

[RedsfaninMT]

Isn't it time for Bruce to get hot again?

First he needs to come out of the daze he's in. Then he can get hot.

EDIT: That's what you get with 2 beers and no food after a long day of work.

[elfmanvt07]

Cozart and Bruce with 2 absolutely gosh-awful at bats. Pathetic.

The usually homerish Thom described Bruce's at bat as "dreadful"

[powersackers]

What is the word for the extremely long run on sentences Thom uses to make a statement? There must be 6 commas in everything he says when he's trying to make some random point. I went to OU myself and they didn't teach that style there.

[elfmanvt07]

Those D-Backs jerseys, what do you call that color?

[RedlegJake]

LOL. Most people write like that but Thom talks like that

[RedlegJake]

Maroon- thats what they officially call it anyway

[RedlegJake]

Latos already looking sharper

[oneupper]

Is it drizzling?

[RedlegJake]

1-2-3 inning. Looked good.

[powersackers]

LOL. Most people write like that but Thom talks like that

You know, and we've talked about this before, Thomas does, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, talk like most people write.

See that's what he does!

[RedlegJake]

LOL powersackers - you did that perfectly!

[RedlegJake]

Rolen flies out to Parra

[RedlegJake]

Frazier to the SS, slips, throws, too late Frazier is safe. They score it a hit.

[alloverjr]

Maroon- thats what they officially call it anyway

I believe they call it Desert Red - or something to that effect.

[RedlegJake]

Hanigan singles

[Tom Servo]

You know, and we've talked about this before, Thomas does, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, talk like most people write.
:lol:

[RedlegJake]

I believe they call it Desert Red - or something to that effect.

In the team lit they call it a deep maroon that we call Desert Red. I think it is supposed to be a Sedona red color for the rock formations just north of phoenix

[Tom Servo]

big stubby!

[RedlegJake]

Stubbs! Knocks one in!

[VottoFan54]

Stubbs has been playing very well since Votto's injury.

[RedlegJake]

1st and 3rd 2 down

[alloverjr]

Stubbs has been playing very well since Votto's injury.

Votto holds people back

[_Sir_Charles_]

Who is this guy impersonating Drew Stubbs? Taking walks, going the other way, fouling off pitches. I'll take this version.

[RedlegJake]

drizzling...steal Stubby steal

[Tom Servo]

Votto holds people back
damn backstage politics

[VottoFan54]

Stubbs is 5-8 with 2 walks in this series.

[RedlegJake]

Zack strikes out.

[RedlegJake]

Should NOT. Be batting. Second.

[elfmanvt07]

Cozart did not look comfortable that entire AB.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Should NOT. Be batting. Second.

But hitting right in front of Votto should really get him goi......oh, never mind.

[alloverjr]

Perhaps it's time to move Zach down in the order a bit. Stuck out 2x's in that AB

[RedlegJake]

Zack is a great #7 hitter. Really great guy for that spot. lowish average with some power

[Tom Servo]

Perhaps it's time to move Zach down in the order a bit. Stuck out 2x's in that AB
Been time for a while now.

[RedlegJake]

Kennedy now 1-25. K. Not a good hitting pitcher. LOL

[RedlegJake]

2nd pitch line out to Bruce

[RedlegJake]

where did that miss?

[Tom Servo]

where did that miss?
It didn't. :thumbdown:

[RedlegJake]

Oh come on...

[RedlegJake]

Got him swinging because the ump wasn't gonna let him look

[RedlegJake]

Well - I guess its been the same both ways cause Cozart fanned on the same pitch last inning he called it ball 2

[RedlegJake]

4-3 BP is out

[RedlegJake]

Bruce pops up again 2 down in third

[RedlegJake]

Bruce looks lost

[RedlegJake]

Ludwick goes into the dirt

[RedsfaninMT]

Ludwick goes into the dirt

Still up to bat with my feed.

[RedlegJake]

Still up - he knocked him down

[RedlegJake]

Ground rule double Ludwick is hot

[Tom Servo]

You can't stop Ryan Ludwick, you can only hope to contain him.

[RedlegJake]

Rolen first hit hopper to the second baseman. Yuck

[alloverjr]

Another quality AB from a Red. I expect better from Rolen.

[RedlegJake]

I hope they knock Ludwick down every time he comes up. Seems like he doubles or homers whenever they do

[RedlegJake]

Gotta be aggressive- can't hit if ya don't swing at them first strikes boys

[elfmanvt07]

You can't stop Ryan Ludwick, you can only hope to contain him.

I'm in a 14 team fantasy league and was just hit by a rash of injuries. I'm not ashamed to say that Ryan Ludwick will start in my UTIL tomorrow.

[RedlegJake]

He should just walk Kubel

[RedlegJake]

3-1 D_Backs

[RedlegJake]

Hangian coming out to talk - pitches this inning have all been up so far

[RedlegJake]

Up again and a high fly ball to Bruce but only because he got under it too much

[RedlegJake]

high again and fouled. Darn Mat get it down!

[RedlegJake]

Missed one right at the belt

[REDSEER]

LOL at Thom stopping in mid-rant to go check his facts.

[RedlegJake]

curve dropped and he popped it up to BP in shallow right. Good pitch

[RedlegJake]

Another high pitch but Paul only hit a fly to center. Latos living very dangerously if he doesn't start getting back under the knees like he was earlier!

[RedlegJake]

I counted one good pitch that whole inning - everything else was up and hittable - he was lucky with Goldschmidt

[RedlegJake]

First pitch AGAIN and pops out to right. Frazier!

[RedlegJake]

Hanigan strikes out.

[RedlegJake]

Latos doubles!

[alloverjr]

See? It's not that tough guys. :)

[RedlegJake]

LOL - Latos is clapping his hands and saying Damn! out at second - he wanted a homer

[RedlegJake]

Struck out Stubbs. 6 left on so far for the Reds.

[757690]

There's the Stubbs we all know and love, was starting to get nostalgic for him ;)

[dsmith421]

I just hope they can get enough three-run home runs and heroic starting performances to stay in touch until Votto gets back. We need reinforcements.

[RedlegJake]

Parra sigles right up the middle

[RedlegJake]

pickoff try by Hanigan at first. safe.

[RedlegJake]

Another hit single by Roberts

[RedlegJake]

Kennedy up bunts they get the lead runner 1 down 1-5

[RedlegJake]

fly to Ludwck 2 down

[RedlegJake]

Hill doubles nd runners on 2nd and 3rd. 4-1 D-Backs.

[RedlegJake]

Latos is still getting up in zone

[RedlegJake]

They are going to keep hitting him if he doesn't get the ball down.

[RedlegJake]

Intentionally walk Kubel load em up

[RedlegJake]

Up way high. Ball 1. misses high. 2-0 ad call ball3. Looked like a good strike to me at the knees. Montero swings misses. 3-1

[RedlegJake]

foul. full count. better pitches the last 3. walks in run 5.

[dsmith421]

April Latos showed up today.

[RedlegJake]

Better get him out of there. He's high and hittable. He's getting him out. Thank you.

[RedlegJake]

You can literally see Mat fall to pieces when he pitches. Everything starts getting high and leveling out nice and straight. He was really lucky last inning wasn't worse.

[alloverjr]

I probably would have left him in. Haven't got a lot of inning from the starters (Cueto 6) in the series and the pens had to throw a few. Can't fault Baker though.

[RedlegJake]

Leave him in and I guarantee you he gives up more runs. Maybe a lot more

[WVRedsFan]

Really disappointed tonight. When runs are hard to come by, you would expect better. Everything was up, putting the long ball in play--3 runs of the 5. In SD, those would have been outs, but Mat is now here.

[WVRedsFan]

Throw strikes!

[RedlegJake]

And it wasn;t the ballpark really. It was his pitching. He just couldn't keep the ball around the knees where he is when he's effective. He kept getting up high. Don't care where you are- you throw belt to letters all day you're gonna get torched

[alloverjr]

Leave him in and I guarantee you he gives up more runs. Maybe a lot more

Don't doubt that. But even if the pen shuts them out the rest of the way, I don't believe this team scores 5 runs.

[RedlegJake]

Don't doubt that. But even if the pen shuts them out the rest of the way, I don't believe this team scores 5 runs.

True that.

[WVRedsFan]

Don't doubt that. But even if the pen shuts them out the rest of the way, I don't believe this team scores 5 runs.

My thoughts exactly. It's going to be that way for awhile. Especially if Bruce and Frazier continue to offer at the first pitch and pop up and Cozart continues to be a black hole with Stubbs.

[RedlegJake]

Sub in Paul for Bruce and lets get a look at him. Not like Bruce is going to hit anything anyway. Not tonight.

[RedlegJake]

Somehow they need to get Bruce going. Need him really big time right now.

[WVRedsFan]

Jay is so far out of it that he may not recover this season. This kid has big highs and the lowest lows I've ever seen.

[TOBTTReds]

What are the odds of us at least tying this game? 100:1?

[TOBTTReds]

Jay is so far out of it that he may not recover this season. This kid has big highs and the lowest lows I've ever seen.

Come on, you can't be serious? This is the same guy we see each year.

[RedlegJake]

Not that bad. The home run ability of this team makes the odds better than that. But it gets bigger every inning goes by

[TOBTTReds]

Not that bad. The home run ability of this team makes the odds better than that. But it gets bigger every inning goes by

I just sense zero life right now.

[RedlegJake]

So do I - they should be pumped and fighting to keep their heads above water til Joey gets back. Instead I sense more of a "eh, so what" attitude.

[RedlegJake]

I know, I know - that's not right. And it's probably not. But its frustrating to watch a game like this where the offense looks so pathetically bad!

[RedlegJake]

Frazier can't dig out the throw. Votto has that. Tough for Todd. Rolen's spin around throw was in the dirt and bounced at his feet

[DGullett35]

We look like a pennant contender one series and the bottom of the league the next series. this team has taken on its own "Jay Bruce" at times this year

[RedlegJake]

Le Cure goes right after Kennedy strikes him out

[DGullett35]

LeCure has looked really good to start the second half.

[RedlegJake]

They scare me when they play worse teams - they seem to play down to the competition sometimes

[redsfaninbsg]

My goal is for them to play .500 til Votto gets back.

[RedlegJake]

They better do better than that if they don't want to be 4 or 5 games behind

[kaldaniels]

Welsh was in a whirlpool during a lightning storm...that's a no-no right?

[RedlegJake]

LOL - yeah that was a good story - with ol Joe Altobelli

[dsmith421]

Nice to see the boys battling up there. My God.

[RedlegJake]

Frazier with his second hit of the night

[RedlegJake]

Hanigan flies to left. 3 down.

[RedlegJake]

Xavier Paul will leadoff next inning. Goody goody. Get to see the new guy...

[klw]

C'mon Ryan. Down 4 you need base runners, you don't swing 2-0. Goes to you too BPhil and Bruce for last inning.

[RedlegJake]

klw - this has abeen one of the worst games I've seen for 1st pitch, bad count swinging, terrible bunts, just bad at bats

[alloverjr]

I don't get this team's offensive approach at all. Make an out, fine. Swing at the first pitch, cool. Get a fastball 2-0, wail away. But, lord, make it a strike somewhere where you can do something with it. Hannigan just swung at a 2-0 pitch at his sternum.

I feel better.

[alloverjr]

Oh Good! Bray!

[RedlegJake]

I always felt if you swing at a first pitch or a 2-0 or 3-0 count fine but you better tag it hard. No pop ups or weenie squibblers. It better be a strike and you better hit it hard. Maybe you're out but at east hit it hard. Otherwise you have no business swinging.

[dsmith421]

Oh Good! Bray!

Ah, why not? They couldn't score six runs in batting practice right now.

[RedlegJake]

Bray needs the work and needs to look good. Gotta polish the trade chips

[alloverjr]

Ah, why not? They couldn't score six runs in batting practice right now.

Don't misunderstand. I was looking for high commedy. Alas, he comes in and throws strikes this time. That's not funny.

[kaldaniels]

Bray is just teasing us.

[RedlegJake]

Bray looked good. Darn good. That's gotta be worth another 30 or 40 points of OBP in trade

[RedlegJake]

He'll fit right in - swings at first pitch for a fly out! YES! He fits!!

[dsmith421]

Well, Paul fits the paradigm.

[alloverjr]

Thom stole my thunder. Fits right in. :)

I see the first pitch swing wasn't lost on many.

[RedlegJake]

I don't believe it...

[dsmith421]

I am curious as to whether anyone in the organization views the constant first-pitch pop-ups, botched bunts, and constant failure with men in scoring position as a problem. And, if so, what precisely is being done about it.

[RedlegJake]

3 pitches and 2 outs. This will be quick

[RedlegJake]

Cozart doubled his pitch count that inning to 6 and goes down 6-3

[alloverjr]

3 pitches and 2 outs. This will be quick

Zach made him work - totaled half his pitches for the inning. 6.

[WVRedsFan]

Come on, you can't be serious? This is the same guy we see each year.

Really seems worse this time for some reason. Regardless, if he doesn't get going, we are in big trouble.

[RedlegJake]

Right now they'd lose if the score was 2-1, they couldn't come from behind.

[RedlegJake]

Arredondo gets the first batter - K

[RedlegJake]

Upton runs himself into a double on a ball hit into the gap in left center

[WVRedsFan]

Hopeless feeling

[RedlegJake]

Goldschmidt rips into the RF corner for a double 6-1 D-Backs. That pretty much locks it up.

[RedlegJake]

single, runner holds at third. first and third. 1 out.

[WVRedsFan]

I am curious as to whether anyone in the organization views the constant first-pitch pop-ups, botched bunts, and constant failure with men in scoring position as a problem. And, if so, what precisely is being done about it.
Probably not. I can't see any way they can get better at the plate. They will give up prospects for pitching, but not for hitting. If the pitching fails, like tonight, they have little answer.

[WVRedsFan]

Oh Gawd.

[RedlegJake]

Passed ball scores another. 7-1.

[Tom Servo]

well this is embarrassing

[RedlegJake]

That came on the heels of a near wild pitch by Arredondo.

[RedlegJake]

walk. first and second.

[RedlegJake]

kennedy will bat for himself leading 7-1

[WVRedsFan]

Arredondo stinking up the joint. You never know what you're going to get with him.

[RedlegJake]

Kennedy strikes out. 2 down

[RedlegJake]

Baker pulling Mr. Arredondo, likely for Logan Ondrusek.

[WVRedsFan]

Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate. Even in 1982, every starting Red had an OBP of over .300 except Paul Householder.

[Tom Servo]

Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.
2 of those things are not like the other things.

[Patrick Bateman]

Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.

Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.

[WVRedsFan]

Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.

Probably home run driven.

[Tom Servo]

alright here comes the big Reds comeback

[dsmith421]

Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the RC calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.

[Patrick Bateman]

Probably home run driven.

Homeruns are worthless?


They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

Unfortunately they are not.

[Patrick Bateman]

Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the OPS calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.

Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.

[Tom Servo]

There went the big Reds comeback. We're bad again. Hopefully they can salvage the series with a win tomorrow.

[Patrick Bateman]

There are literally 14 guys in MLB with a .390 OBP.

This isn't 2000 anymore.

[dsmith421]

Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.

True.

Bottom line, though, we've got five regulars (Phillips, Cozart, Stubbs, Ludwick, Bruce) who fit the high-SLG, low-OBP profile, plus a guy in Rolen that does neither well at this stage. Long-term, Bruce should be a solid OBP and SLG guy, but I suspect Frazier regresses to the first category.

I just can't see that offense being successful in the long run, as last year showed and this year is confirming. The 2010 offense was very strong but had a full-strength Rolen (who murdered mistakes like very few hitters I've ever seen) and a bit more diversity in attack.

[Edit: Geeh, obviously Frazier and Rolen aren't regulars at the same time when at full strength, but both occupy a ton of PAs.]

[WVRedsFan]

Homeruns are worthless?


They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

Unfortunately they are not.No, but they don't come often and they inflate slugging percentages. I love Ludwig, and he's hitting better, but the homeruns inflate. Same with Jay. Take away those (I know, that takes away runs) and these guys are having mediocre years. And batting Stubbs and Cozart anywhere the top of the order is almost criminal.

[Patrick Bateman]

I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.

[dsmith421]

I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.

The bigger point, which I think has been proven this year, is that good pitching and defense can keep any team in the mix, regardless of offense. We've had two stinkers the last three days, but that's been the exception this year.

[WVRedsFan]

The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.

Totally agree.

[Kc61]

Didn't see the game, but some very good commentary on the offense in this game thread. I hope the FO is attuned to these concerns as are some of the posters in this thread.

[cbowen2112]

Get ready for tommorow's lineup that will look something like this possibly...

Stubbs
Cozart(possibly Valdez)
Phillips
Bruce
Ludwick
Frazier
Cairo
Mesoraco
Leake


Yilkes...

[alloverjr]

Get ready for tommorow's lineup that will look something like this possibly...

Stubbs
Cozart(possibly Valdez)
Phillips
Bruce
Ludwick
Frazier
Cairo
Mesoraco
Leake


Yilkes...

Really no worse than the lineup tonight. And at this point I'll take a few starts from Valdez over Cozart. He's been overly hacktastic lately. Wouldn't be too suprised to see Heisey in RF either with a lefty going (and I would approve).

[Matt700wlw]

Sean Casey is on the way!!!

Not really.

[reds44]

8 runs in 3 games without Votto. This team is in big time trouble.

[757690]

Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate. Even in 1982, every starting Red had an OBP of over .300 except Paul Householder.

The Reds this year without Votto have a very weak lineup. However, it is not nearly as bad as what the 1982 Reds put out everyday. Not even close.

Bruce, Frazier and Ludwick are better than anyone in that 1982 lineup, except for maybe Dan Driessen. Basically, Dan Driessen was their Joey Votto. The Reds were dead last in scoring, averaging 3.36 runs a game. That was easily the worst offensive team I have ever seen. I do understand the need to block out all memories of that 1982 season, so I'll forgive you for not remembering it clearly ;)

[757690]

8 runs in 3 games without Votto. This team is in big time trouble.

If the Reds can play .500 for the next 4 weeks without Votto, I'll be very happy. They might have the pitching to do it. Maybe.

[cumberlandreds]

The Reds this year without Votto have a very weak lineup. However, it is not nearly as bad as what the 1982 Reds put out everyday. Not even close.

Bruce, Frazier and Ludwick are better than anyone in that 1982 lineup, except for maybe Dan Driessen. Basically, Dan Driessen was their Joey Votto. The Reds were dead last in scoring, averaging 3.36 runs a game. That was easily the worst offensive team I have ever seen. I do understand the need to block out all memories of that 1982 season, so I'll forgive you for not remembering it clearly ;)

I was going to piont out that 1982 and 83 Reds team. They were pathetic. This team is a hitting machine compared to them.
Fay mentioned in his game notes that Valdez and Cairo will probably start todays game. Leake better pitch a shutout because if they score more than one run it will be a near miracle.