Walt needs to stand pat..nothing out there that is worth it

[brm7675]

Looking at what "might" be available on the trade market and what it would cost us both talent wise and a hit to the budget, I think and hope that when the dusts clears, Walt does nothing. There is no "game changer" out there that will come at anywhere near fair value or doesn't hold an extreme huge contract (see the deal the Dodgers just made). I think those here who are wanting Walt to make a move are not really seeing what the Reds have. People are screaming for a better leadoff hitter, I agree, but we have options already on the team.

What the Reds need to do is maximize the talent they presently have, stay healthy and everything will be fine.

[mrherd05]

agree

[Todd Gack]

I think a LH pinch hitter with pop could be had. THere are a few guys out there that wouldn't really cost us much.


Other than that, nothing.

[P.E.R#14]

I think a LH pinch hitter with pop could be had. THere are a few guys out there that wouldn't really cost us much.


Other than that, nothing.


Completely agree with the original poster.

Todd Gack, agree with the LH bat, but hasn't the argument on here been that we can't score without home runs? If "pop" is backed with a .240 batting avg. and .280 OBP, I disagree. What are your thoughts on Xavier Paul?

[Girevik]

I think a LH pinch hitter with pop could be had. THere are a few guys out there that wouldn't really cost us much.


Other than that, nothing.

This. I don't think the Reds need a starter, let alone a game changer. What they could use is is lefty that can come in an get a HR for you occasionally. Other than that, I'm satisfied with what they have.

Then again, with the way the Reds are playing now, maybe they should stick with this lineup and use Votto as the lefty off the bench. :D

[bleedsred]

I don't know about doing nothing, we don't know the deals that could be made or how much salary Bob is willing to take on. While I think the staff has done a great job, if a Greinke rental could be made I think it would be crazy to pass that up. Kotsay would be a nice target as well. I don't want to see them overpay though....going to be an interesting 7 days.

[Todd Gack]

Completely agree with the original poster.

Todd Gack, agree with the LH bat, but hasn't the argument on here been that we can't score without home runs? If "pop" is backed with a .240 batting avg. and .280 OBP, I disagree. What are your thoughts on Xavier Paul?

I just mean a LH PINCH hitter. . . .not a starter by any means. Paul is OK I guess but they need to start working exclusively with him on PH.

[Redleg]

I think they absolutely need to make a change and acquire a leadoff hitter. Look at the teams in the AL. Yankees, Angels, and Rangers all are a lot better than the Reds. I want to see the Reds win a world series not just go to the playoffs. If you have to overpay to get someone like Fowler then do it. The Reds are set at about every position for the next 4-6 years and a little overpay won't hurt. The team is playing well right now so no one thinks a trade needs to be made. If they weren't playing the Astros Brewers and D'Backs the week before the trade deadline then they might not be on a streak like this. Cairo needs to be replaced with a lefty bench bat and Stubbs replaced with a better center fielder. Fowler and Kotsay would be perfect for this team and not sure that Fowler is available but they need to go for it.

[Redleg]

I think they absolutely need to make a change and acquire a leadoff hitter. Look at the teams in the AL. Yankees, Angels, and Rangers all are a lot better than the Reds. I want to see the Reds win a world series not just go to the playoffs. If you have to overpay to get someone like Fowler then do it. The Reds are set at about every position for the next 4-6 years and a little overpay won't hurt. The team is playing well right now so no one thinks a trade needs to be made. If they weren't playing the Astros Brewers and D'Backs the week before the trade deadline then they might not be on a streak like this. Cairo needs to be replaced with a lefty bench bat and Stubbs replaced with a better center fielder. Fowler and Kotsay would be perfect for this team and not sure that Fowler is available but they need to go for it.

[IamRV]

I think they absolutely need to make a change and acquire a leadoff hitter. Look at the teams in the AL. Yankees, Angels, and Rangers all are a lot better than the Reds. I want to see the Reds win a world series not just go to the playoffs. If you have to overpay to get someone like Fowler then do it. The Reds are set at about every position for the next 4-6 years and a little overpay won't hurt. The team is playing well right now so no one thinks a trade needs to be made. If they weren't playing the Astros Brewers and D'Backs the week before the trade deadline then they might not be on a streak like this. Cairo needs to be replaced with a lefty bench bat and Stubbs replaced with a better center fielder. Fowler and Kotsay would be perfect for this team and not sure that Fowler is available but they need to go for it.

Yeppers! QFT :thumbup:

[2539redsfan]

Walt needs to do something. Like bleedsred said, we don't know about the deals that could be made. Nobody knew Hanley Ramirez was available, but now he is a Dodger.

Are we happy with just making the playoffs? I'm not. We need to acquire somebody to help this team.

[brm7675]

I don't know about doing nothing, we don't know the deals that could be made or how much salary Bob is willing to take on. While I think the staff has done a great job, if a Greinke rental could be made I think it would be crazy to pass that up. Kotsay would be a nice target as well. I don't want to see them overpay though....going to be an interesting 7 days.

Wouldn't touch Greinke...he would be a rental and sorry but he has "issues" this team doesn't need.

[brm7675]

I think they absolutely need to make a change and acquire a leadoff hitter. Look at the teams in the AL. Yankees, Angels, and Rangers all are a lot better than the Reds. I want to see the Reds win a world series not just go to the playoffs. If you have to overpay to get someone like Fowler then do it. The Reds are set at about every position for the next 4-6 years and a little overpay won't hurt. The team is playing well right now so no one thinks a trade needs to be made. If they weren't playing the Astros Brewers and D'Backs the week before the trade deadline then they might not be on a streak like this. Cairo needs to be replaced with a lefty bench bat and Stubbs replaced with a better center fielder. Fowler and Kotsay would be perfect for this team and not sure that Fowler is available but they need to go for it.

There is no leadoff hitter out there worth giving up what it would take that would greatly improve this roster. This team is 17 games over .500 so they are doing something right. I don't worry about any team in the AL, because as we saw last year, you can have all the horses you want, doesn't mean you will win the WS. The Reds are in a grove right now, parting with key talent to "hope" we might make a huge improvement at leadoff with the possible talent available in my opinion is just bad baseball.

[brm7675]

Walt needs to do something. Like bleedsred said, we don't know about the deals that could be made. Nobody knew Hanley Ramirez was available, but now he is a Dodger.

Are we happy with just making the playoffs? I'm not. We need to acquire somebody to help this team.

Why? What about a team 17 games over .500, a top 5 overall team record wise in MLB need to try and add a player? Why gut the farm system on a hope? The Reds have limited chips to play with and even less $$$$, to take on contracts and "rentals" are NOT what this team needs to be dealing with.
I doubt "nobody" knew Ramierz was available, teams knew, it just took the right deal. Fan's didn't know and fans rarly ever know what players are available and at what cost.

[brm7675]

Walt needs to do something. Like bleedsred said, we don't know about the deals that could be made. Nobody knew Hanley Ramirez was available, but now he is a Dodger.

Are we happy with just making the playoffs? I'm not. We need to acquire somebody to help this team.

double post sorry.

[MrRedLegger]

Given Bob's and Walt's history, not only togther but in terms of building baseball franchises, if an affordable deal that improves this team significantly with the benefits clearly outweighing the cost (which need to be immediate) exists then they will make that deal. It's a no brainer. They're hunting and working for the best deal if there is one. They're trying to win a World Series as a FO just as much as we are as being fans.

Owners and GM's don't have a message board where they can post messages such as "Let's trade A, B, and C for X, Y, and Z and therefore the lineup could be 1-9 and it'll work awesome." This side of baseball is harder than we all speculate it to be.

I agree with brm's OP that the deal we need and want at a price we can afford (or at a reasonable price) does not exist.

The team is benefitting from the FO's moves (patience with the young pitchers, signing Ludwick, locking up Votto & others, and in last night's case Xavier Paul) and if they decide to not make a move, then it is probably in the team's best interest.

[krm1580]

I think this thread is simple, to the point and on the money. If the Reds were to go out and get a Stanton or a CarGo (yes I know its not happening), I get it. That would be a major upgrade that radically alters the lineup. All this talk of acquiring fringe marginal upgrade guys like Span or Victorino I absolutely don't get.

First of all, like him or not, Stubbs hits lefites way better than any of the names being thrown around. He is an .833OPS guy this year and an .839OPS guy for his career. So whoever the flavor of the month acquistion guy is will be a platoon vs Right only guy. So IF they play every game in a month vs righties you are looking at approximately 75 PA per month.

Now take their OBP vs righties, compare it to Stubbs current .285 or better still Heisey's .321 and how many extra base runners do get per month.

Span @ .328 x 75 vs Heisey @ .321 x 75 = .5 extra base runner per month
Victorina @ .291 x 75 vs Stubbs @ .285 x75 = .5 extra base br per month

Even if they get driven in 100% of the time, they amount to less than one extra run per month. Why would the Reds have any interest in giving up any assets at all for that. Throw in the fact both guys are getting paid more and are not as good defensively why would you do it?

The Reds will be adding a 1.000 OPS bat around the trade deadline with Joey Votto coming back which nobody else will be able to do. The staff is really good this year and should prevent prolonged slumps. With Rolen back and hitting Frazier and Heisey make for a very strong bench. The bullpen has been lockdown.

In addition the Pirates strong run has been fueled by offensive binges by Andrew McCutchen and Neil Walker sporting insane slash lines of 532/812/1.343 and 458/667/1.124 over the last month. I will go pretty far out on a limb and say that won't continue.

The bottom line is I think the Reds are in good shape right now and don't need to add fluff for the sake of it. If they can get a mega bat, I am all for it but I will not be disappointed if they stand pat rather than trade away good prospects for fringy upgrades.

[The_Mudshark]

Looking at what "might" be available on the trade market and what it would cost us both talent wise and a hit to the budget, I think and hope that when the dusts clears, Walt does nothing. There is no "game changer" out there that will come at anywhere near fair value or doesn't hold an extreme huge contract (see the deal the Dodgers just made). I think those here who are wanting Walt to make a move are not really seeing what the Reds have. People are screaming for a better leadoff hitter, I agree, but we have options already on the team.

What the Reds need to do is maximize the talent they presently have, stay healthy and everything will be fine.

Who is this leadoff hitter option already on the team that you are talking about?

[bleedsred]

Why? What about a team 17 games over .500, a top 5 overall team record wise in MLB need to try and add a player? Why gut the farm system on a hope? The Reds have limited chips to play with and even less $$$$, to take on contracts and "rentals" are NOT what this team needs to be dealing with.
I doubt "nobody" knew Ramierz was available, teams knew, it just took the right deal. Fan's didn't know and fans rarly ever know what players are available and at what cost.

I never said gut the system. But what is so wrong about landing a Kotsay to replace Cairo? We don't know the $$$ available...Bob is all about winning and he will spend to do it, this team is a couple of pieces away from being a top-notch world series contender. We were all shocked by the $$$ thrown at Votto and Phillips, I don't know the man but I doubt he will let 5-6 million stand between him and a championship. I agree that guys like Victorino or Span do not seem to be a fit.

[brm7675]

Who is this leadoff hitter option already on the team that you are talking about?

Bradon Phillips. I think he could match anything any player out on the trade market could bring.

[brm7675]

I never said gut the system. But what is so wrong about landing a Kotsay to replace Cairo? We don't know the $$$ available...Bob is all about winning and he will spend to do it, this team is a couple of pieces away from being a top-notch world series contender. We were all shocked by the $$$ thrown at Votto and Phillips, I don't know the man but I doubt he will let 5-6 million stand between him and a championship. I agree that guys like Victorino or Span do not seem to be a fit.

A changing of Kotsay for say Cairo isn't going to make any kind of difference, plus again you have money issues. If Bob was willing to spend then moves would have happened, Bob will spend on certain things, but the budget isn't that flexable.

[The_Mudshark]

Bradon Phillips. I think he could match anything any player out on the trade market could bring.

Gotcha. I don't completely disagree, but he leaves a hole somewhere else when you move him, as long as all the hot bats stay hot - we are set... :pray:

[krm1580]

I never said gut the system. But what is so wrong about landing a Kotsay to replace Cairo? We don't know the $$$ available...Bob is all about winning and he will spend to do it, this team is a couple of pieces away from being a top-notch world series contender. We were all shocked by the $$$ thrown at Votto and Phillips, I don't know the man but I doubt he will let 5-6 million stand between him and a championship. I agree that guys like Victorino or Span do not seem to be a fit.

You hit on another interesting point which I had not thought of. If you do bring in another bat without moving anyone on the active roster, who do the Reds bump?

I like you think the obvious choice would be the guy with the .401 OPS. For some reason though I just don't think the Reds would run Cairo out of town. It won't be Valdez because he is the only MI backup they have. That leaves Paul which takes me back to my original point, if the guy you are getting is no better than the guy you are giving up why are you bothering.

I don't know how good Paul will be. So far he has looked pretty good and he is around a career .725 OPS bat vs RHP. Not sure the Reds can upgrade that too much

[bleedsred]

A changing of Kotsay for say Cairo isn't going to make any kind of difference, plus again you have money issues. If Bob was willing to spend then moves would have happened, Bob will spend on certain things, but the budget isn't that flexable.

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you on Kotsay for Cairo not making a difference. Kotsay is a solid Lh bat that is an experienced ph, I'm thinking playoffs....while Paul may be the answer, I think Kotsay would be great for the bench. Kotsay does not make that much $$$ so the budget would be of no issue...I read somewhere that Walt has acknowledged there is $$$ available, maybe I was drunk though...lol

[bleedsred]

Another point for landing Kotsay, search Jaime Kotsay?..lol...the intangibles

[Old NDN]

Virtually every team within striking distance of the playoffs is making improvements. The fact that the Reds are 17 games over .500, and in first place, is no reason to stand pat. No, they shouldn't make deals because everyone else is, but there is still that glaring hole at the top of the lineup. I don't like the thought of going into the playoff battles with Stubbs and Cozart in front of Votto. I guess we'll just have to trust Walt (again) to work it out.

[texasdave]

Fans didn't know and fans rarely ever know what players are available and at what cost.

That hasn't stopped you from posting the same nonsense at least half a dozen times.

[mu4103]

Great post! There is nothing the Reds can do to improve an offense that only starts 2 guys who hit over .250. Great Insight!:laugh:

[Maker_84]

Great post! There is nothing the Reds can do to improve an offense that only starts 2 guys who hit over .250. Great Insight!:laugh:

haha

[sammonator]

Great post! There is nothing the Reds can do to improve an offense that only starts 2 guys who hit over .250. Great Insight!:laugh:

Nice!

I think the Reds need a leadoff man to set the table for Votto, Phillips and Bruce. I think that is a major need. Also think we could use Hunter Pence as well. Give me Span and Pence.

Span
Phillips
Votto
Pence
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier
Hanny/Mes
Cozart

I like that a lot!!!

[brm7675]

Virtually every team within striking distance of the playoffs is making improvements. The fact that the Reds are 17 games over .500, and in first place, is no reason to stand pat. No, they shouldn't make deals because everyone else is, but there is still that glaring hole at the top of the lineup. I don't like the thought of going into the playoff battles with Stubbs and Cozart in front of Votto. I guess we'll just have to trust Walt (again) to work it out.

Here is a crazy idea...don't hit Cozart and Stubbs in front of Votto...try Phillips and say Hanigan or Phillips and say Frazier. I say if you put together the pieces we have to maximize their skills our offense will be more then enough with the pitching we have.

[brm7675]

Great post! There is nothing the Reds can do to improve an offense that only starts 2 guys who hit over .250. Great Insight!:laugh:

And yet they are 17 games over .500...how did they do that?:confused:

[brm7675]

Nice!

I think the Reds need a leadoff man to set the table for Votto, Phillips and Bruce. I think that is a major need. Also think we could use Hunter Pence as well. Give me Span and Pence.

Span
Phillips
Votto
Pence
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier
Hanny/Mes
Cozart

I like that a lot!!!

How do you pay for Span and Pence? You would be adding close to 15-16 million to payroll, where does that money come from? Also are you willing to basically drain the remaining top prospects?

[R_Webb18]

i think we have to do something but imo we would have to give up good pieces. i would not give up good pieces for okay players either.

[R_Webb18]

How do you pay for Span and Pence? You would be adding close to 15-16 million to payroll, where does that money come from? Also are you willing to basically drain the remaining top prospects?

yea that won't happen

[R_Webb18]

And yet they are 17 games over .500...how did they do that?:confused:

so your saying if your over 17 games you should not upgrade?

[bleedsred]

Here is a crazy idea...don't hit Cozart and Stubbs in front of Votto...try Phillips and say Hanigan or Phillips and say Frazier. I say if you put together the pieces we have to maximize their skills our offense will be more then enough with the pitching we have.

The lineup is what it is, it doesn't look like it is going to change anytime soon.

[R_Webb18]

The lineup is what it is, it doesn't look like it is going to change anytime soon.

yea it won't but it should

[Stray]

Agree that we shouldn't do anything major. There's a good vibe with our team right now, I wouldn't do anything crazy that would cost some nice prospects or mess with team chemistry.

Since Votto has gone down a lot of guys have started to step up, that will only help us more once he gets back. Anyway, we have our own questions to deal with when he does come back and we're back to 3 starters for 2 positions.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Standing pat means another wasted year in the window of opportunity. Period. This recent hot streak is nice, but we all know what is going to happen with guys like Stubbs and Bruce down the stretch and in the postseason if the Reds make it. They're not going to hit against quality pitching. You know it. I know it.

This is the best starting pitching in my lifetime watching the Reds. There's no guarantee it's going to continue beyond 2012. They need to make a move or two to take advantage of it.

[The Rage]

No way Walt turns on his boy Ludwick. He has produced to a decent enough level, that Walt will leave the golden fawn alone. Ditto for Bailey and Stubbs. They are Dusty's golden fawns. The biggest area where I could see them make a move out of left field is SS, but Walt has high defensive demands for that position. Taking Leake and trading him for a "upgrade" could be possible as well in another left field move.

Just none of it sounds reasonable. I question if the Reds would make a deal for prospects with a guys like Fowler if they would even do it.

[The Rage]

Standing pat means another wasted year in the window of opportunity. Period. This recent hot streak is nice, but we all know what is going to happen with guys like Stubbs and Bruce down the stretch and in the postseason if the Reds make it. They're not going to hit against quality pitching. You know it. I know it.

This is the best starting pitching in my lifetime watching the Reds. There's no guarantee it's going to continue beyond 2012. They need to make a move or two to take advantage of it.

Calling this the best starting pitching of your lifetime isn't saying much. Shows how consistantly bad it has been. Yes, it could be much better.

[Kingspoint]

Last I checked, we have a very weak 3rd baseman, we have two guys hitting ahead of Votto who are poor at getting on base, our bench yas only two Catchers making Hanigan always unavailable as a pinch-hitter, we struggle hitting with RISP, Cairo is on the bebch, and we are right- handed hitting heavy.

Also, last time I checked, we don't have a 10-game lead on the 2nd best team in the NL, giving us breathing room for home field advantage through the playoffs.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Calling this the best starting pitching of your lifetime isn't saying much. Shows how consistantly bad it has been. Yes, it could be much better.

You've got pretty lofty expectations if you think they could be much better. :)

[P.E.R#14]

Standing pat means another wasted year in the window of opportunity. Period. This recent hot streak is nice, but we all know what is going to happen with guys like Stubbs and Bruce down the stretch and in the postseason if the Reds make it. They're not going to hit against quality pitching. You know it. I know it.

This is the best starting pitching in my lifetime watching the Reds. There's no guarantee it's going to continue beyond 2012. They need to make a move or two to take advantage of it.

What's going to happen down the stretch with guys like Stubbs and Bruce? Please tell me, I'm curious to know....

They'll each bat .400?

They'll each hit 15 home runs?

Please, I'm dying to know. What will they do?

17 games over .500!! Quit complaining like we're not competing.

I'm loving this season! Go Reds!!

[BluegrassRedleg]

What's going to happen down the stretch with guys like Stubbs and Bruce? Please tell me, I'm curious to know....

They'll each bat .400?

They'll each hit 15 home runs?

Please, I'm dying to know. What will they do?

17 games over .500!! Quit complaining like we're not competing.

I'm loving this season! Go Reds!!

They're both going to fail to put the bat on the ball consistently... like they have their entire careers.

And, like you, I'm loving this season. Not sure why you would assume otherwise.

[brm7675]

so your saying if your over 17 games you should not upgrade?

No it means you have to be greedy if you upgrade, you need to add a real playmaker, a difference maker if you are going to add payroll and give away prospects. We have a good mix right now, and playing within our team budget, to mess with that I want someone who is extra special and will play every day and have a major impact, if you can't get that or afford that then bench deals are not going to make that big of a difference.

[BluegrassRedleg]

No it means you have to be greedy if you upgrade, you need to add a real playmaker, a difference maker if you are going to add payroll and give away prospects. We have a good mix right now, and playing within our team budget, to mess with that I want someone who is extra special and will play every day and have a major impact, if you can't get that or afford that then bench deals are not going to make that big of a difference.

I do agree with that. But that's different than "Walt needs to stand pat." I firmly believe he should not. He should be getting blisters on his dialing finger trying to find a creative deal that will help this club make a run in the playoffs.

[brm7675]

Standing pat means another wasted year in the window of opportunity. Period. This recent hot streak is nice, but we all know what is going to happen with guys like Stubbs and Bruce down the stretch and in the postseason if the Reds make it. They're not going to hit against quality pitching. You know it. I know it.

This is the best starting pitching in my lifetime watching the Reds. There's no guarantee it's going to continue beyond 2012. They need to make a move or two to take advantage of it.

so the 17 game plus is by luck? Why wouldn't the pitching staff only get better with experience? Exactly what type of player do you think will have that kind of impact and are you willing to part with a number of our remaining top prospects for this player?

[brm7675]

Last I checked, we have a very weak 3rd baseman, we have two guys hitting ahead of Votto who are poor at getting on base, our bench yas only two Catchers making Hanigan always unavailable as a pinch-hitter, we struggle hitting with RISP, Cairo is on the bebch, and we are right- handed hitting heavy.

Also, last time I checked, we don't have a 10-game lead on the 2nd best team in the NL, giving us breathing room for home field advantage through the playoffs.

Exactly "how" is Frazier weak? He should be in top consideration for ROY. How many teams carry 3 catchers? What makes you think a trade will change how/whom Dusty bats where?

[BluegrassRedleg]

so the 17 game plus is by luck? Why wouldn't the pitching staff only get better with experience? Exactly what type of player do you think will have that kind of impact and are you willing to part with a number of our remaining top prospects for this player?

A. Don't know where you read that. Have never said or implied that.

B. Some guys have "career" years. I'm hopeful that isn't the case, but I've been around too long to dismiss it as a possibility. Bottom line is the SP is great RIGHT NOW, and this team is very close to being a postseason factor with a nice move (or two). It will not be a factor against playoff pitching with this offense IMHO.

C. I'm not exactly sure who would be the best fit. That's Walt's job. I don't play fantasy baseball manager on here, just offering an opinion that Walt needs to do everything possible to take advantage of his opportunity.

D. Outside of Hamilton, I'm perfectly fine with letting go of any other prospect in their system if it brings the right guy. I think you and I are in agreement that it has to be an impact player IF any deal is made. I'm not advocating a deal merely for the sake of making one.

[brm7675]

I do agree with that. But that's different than "Walt needs to stand pat." I firmly believe he should not. He should be getting blisters on his dialing finger trying to find a creative deal that will help this club make a run in the playoffs.

I guess I would rather not add unneeded financial constraints or lose any more prospects in what is/will be an overpriced market place that won't provide us with a talent that will add that much overall help to the team. You have an extremely limited market, high prices and limited needes...

[R_Webb18]

the only player i want to replace is stubbs

yea he won it for us last night
yea he's been okay for few weeks

but his stats tell me that's gonna change

yea were hitting the ball now vs WEAK TEAMS

[P.E.R#14]

They're both going to fail to put the bat on the ball consistently... like they have their entire careers.

And, like you, I'm loving this season. Not sure why you would assume otherwise.

I just don't like pessimism.

[BluegrassRedleg]

I guess I would rather not add unneeded financial constraints or lose any more prospects in what is/will be an overpriced market place that won't provide us with a talent that will add that much overall help to the team. You have an extremely limited market, high prices and limited needes...

True. I'm in agreement with you on that. It's a challenge. Just hope Walt will exhaust all possibilities.

[The Rage]

Stubbs should be traded at the min, but they don't have the guts to do it.

[brm7675]

the only player i want to replace is stubbs

yea he won it for us last night
yea he's been okay for few weeks

but his stats tell me that's gonna change

yea were hitting the ball now vs WEAK TEAMS

Okay in the NL, which teams would you rate as not weak? I would say that the Nationals (minus Strausburg) might give us some trouble in the playoffs and I think that is it. We beat up on Brave pitching and Giant pitching and not sure but think we could do okay vs. Dodger pitching. So what pitching in the NL scares you?

[brm7675]

Stubbs should be traded at the min, but they don't have the guts to do it.

Why would you trade Stubbs?

[The Rage]

Why would you trade Stubbs?

He isn't very good

[krm1580]

He isn't very good

Actually, against lefties, he is quite good. He is .289 .333/.500/.833 against them this year which is also in line with what his career numbers are against them.

[brm7675]

He isn't very good

Okay...then why would someone else want him?

[R_Webb18]

Okay...then why would someone else want him?

b/c maybe they won't throw him out there everyday

[brm7675]

b/c maybe they won't throw him out there everyday

How many teams go with a platoon CF position?

[R_Webb18]

who says he has to play cf?

also if a guy is terrible why not?

[Ironman92]

Stubbs is terrible against righties....terrible. Against lefties he provides as you'd expect.


Stubbs can be a very good part of this but the guy who writes the lineups has penciled him in every day since he was brought up in late 2009. A team needing an OF to play against lefties....and great speed. There have to be teams that would want him....but I don't...not with Dusty playing him every day barring injury. He is not a 600 AB player.

If he played CF every game versus a lefty starter and when Bruce was facing a tough lefty or the other players needed a day off....then being a PH versus a lefty brought in later in the game or as a late game Pinch runner or defensive replacement......I honestly believe very few would have a problem with him and his 300-375 AB (unless there was a diving play or he fails to bunt).....but with Dusty's use of him, myself and many others just cannot tolerate him.

[BungleBengals]

I like where the Reds are right now, but I do not see them beating some of the better teams in the MLB. Washington, Pittsburgh, and LA Dodgers could be anyone's game. The AL has some teams that frighten me too like Texas, LA Angels, and the Yankees.

I wouldn't be mad if Walt stayed pat. I am afraid that any major trade is going to involve us giving up Hamilton or Cingrani. However, I would be happy if Walt got creative and protected those two while making an upgrade to the team. I think we need anyone good on offense (LH or RH bat will do) and a SP to sure up the rotation.

Our rotation is what is keeping this team together, but you cannot expect all 5 to go strong into the playoffs. Also, a bat I would like to have would be Kubels from AZ or Fowler from CO.

[brm7675]

Stubbs is terrible against righties....terrible. Against lefties he provides as you'd expect.


Stubbs can be a very good part of this but the guy who writes the lineups has penciled him in every day since he was brought up in late 2009. A team needing an OF to play against lefties....and great speed. There have to be teams that would want him....but I don't...not with Dusty playing him every day barring injury. He is not a 600 AB player.

If he played CF every game versus a lefty starter and when Bruce was facing a tough lefty or the other players needed a day off....then being a PH versus a lefty brought in later in the game or as a late game Pinch runner or defensive replacement......I honestly believe very few would have a problem with him and his 300-375 AB (unless there was a diving play or he fails to bunt).....but with Dusty's use of him, myself and many others just cannot tolerate him.

so the issue isn't the player but how the manager uses him? So we trade away a player with talent who is just being used wrong? That doesn't make any sense?

[Mutaman]

Hideki Matsui ?

[dubc47834]

so the issue isn't the player but how the manager uses him? So we trade away a player with talent who is just being used wrong? That doesn't make any sense?

The only talent Stubbs has is speed... And he can't even use it right. I usually don't get on players, but he has had plenty of chances to prove himself.

[smixsell]

I think a LH pinch hitter with pop could be had. THere are a few guys out there that wouldn't really cost us much.


Other than that, nothing.

I agree. But at this juncture adding ANY (power or no power) good lefty or switch hitter off the bench would be nice.

I think we will see a bat (or 2) to come off the bench added. Perhaps someone like Johnny DamonMight be a waiver deal after the deadline though.

Other than that, I say stand pat unless a really good deal comes our way.

[dubc47834]

Hideki Matsui ?

Nooooooooo, he is a has been.

[Mutaman]

Nooooooooo, he is a has been.


But he's a lefthanded hitting has been, a class act, and a has been who raises his game when the moneys on the line.
Comes cheap and might enjoy Great American Small Park.

[dubc47834]

But he's a lefthanded hitting has been, a class act, and a has been who raises his game when the moneys on the line.
Comes cheap and might enjoy Great American Small Park.

If it was the Godzilla of 5 years ago...sure, but dude is slow, his bat is slow, and is injury prone. I'll pass!

[Ironman92]

But he's a lefthanded hitting has been, a class act, and a has been who raises his game when the moneys on the line.
Comes cheap and might enjoy Great American Small Park.

He hasn't risen to anything this year. Anyone that thinks Rolen and Cairo are old would burn down twitter with this guy.

Honestly I'd start Xavier Paul about the next 3 games and then decide if he's good enough to be serviceable....but if there is a lefty we know will help...get him.

[R_Webb18]

so the issue isn't the player but how the manager uses him? So we trade away a player with talent who is just being used wrong? That doesn't make any sense?

no but there's not really any other option besides heisey to take his job. imo neither are the answer.

[BluegrassRedleg]

I just don't like pessimism.

None was expressed. Those guys are what their stats say they are.

I'm extremely optimistic about the postseason because they finally have nice depth of pitching in every aspect of the staff. Just want to see them have a better chance to actually win in the postseason by addressing undeniable holes in the lineup.

[Ironman92]

so the issue isn't the player but how the manager uses him? So we trade away a player with talent who is just being used wrong? That doesn't make any sense?

Yeah....he plays every game versus righties a top the order and he's a .205 hitter with a .285 OPS. We probably face 100 righties a year (if not more) and Stubbs and his .205 hitting will start 98 of them.

Patterson-Taveras-Stubbs

.....but Stubbs has been that guy for 3 years while the other two just 1 each

Give me the next guy in that hideous line above....I'm ready.

[IamRV]

Stubbs is terrible against righties....terrible. Against lefties he provides as you'd expect.


Stubbs can be a very good part of this but the guy who writes the lineups has penciled him in every day since he was brought up in late 2009. A team needing an OF to play against lefties....and great speed. There have to be teams that would want him....but I don't...not with Dusty playing him every day barring injury. He is not a 600 AB player.

If he played CF every game versus a lefty starter and when Bruce was facing a tough lefty or the other players needed a day off....then being a PH versus a lefty brought in later in the game or as a late game Pinch runner or defensive replacement......I honestly believe very few would have a problem with him and his 300-375 AB (unless there was a diving play or he fails to bunt).....but with Dusty's use of him, myself and many others just cannot tolerate him.

This gets to the nut of it.

What doesn't make any sense is our 'manager's' lineups.