8/2/2012 Reds vs Padres

[cumberlandreds]

Here are the lineups. Paul gets the start in LF. Ludwick on the bench for some unkown reason. Old man Rolen playing a day game after a night game. That has to be a first as a Red for him.
With Ohlendorf pitching this lineup should still hit him.

1. Alexi Amarista (L) SS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=amarial01&year=Career&t=b)
2. Will Venable (L) RF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=venabwi01&year=Career&t=b)
3. Chase Headley (S) 3B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=headlch01&year=Career&t=b)
4. Carlos Quentin (R) LF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=quentca01&year=Career&t=b)
5. Yonder Alonso (L) 1B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=alonsyo01&year=Career&t=b)
6. Logan Forsythe (R) 2B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=forsylo01&year=Career&t=b)
7. Cameron Maybin (R) CF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=maybica01&year=Career&t=b)
8. Eddy Rodriguez (R) C (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=&year=Career&t=b)
9. Ross Ohlendorf (R) P (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=ohlenro01&year=Career&t=b)

(http://www.baseballpress.com/lineup_team.php?team=CIN)1. Xavier Paul (L) LF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=paulxa01&year=Career&t=b)
2. Drew Stubbs (R) CF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=stubbdr01&year=Career&t=b)
3. Jay Bruce (L) RF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=bruceja01&year=Career&t=b)
4. Scott Rolen (R) 3B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=rolensc01&year=Career&t=b)
5. Todd Frazier (R) 1B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=frazito01&year=Career&t=b)
6. Zack Cozart (R) SS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cozarza01&year=Career&t=b)
7. Miguel Cairo (R) 2B (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cairomi01&year=Career&t=b)
8. Ryan Hanigan (R) C (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=hanigry01&year=Career&t=b)
9. Johnny Cueto (R) P (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cuetojo01&year=Career&t=b)

[cumberlandreds]

Whoops! Forgot to put who was playing. If a mod can fix this I would appreciate it.

[CySeymour]

I just don't get Dusty. Ludwick has been the teams best hitter by far, and he sits. Bruce has been just meh, so why doesn't he sit to give Paul some at-bats?

[Redsfan320]

I understand its an unusual situation with the 2B deal and whatnot, but even with the same nine guys in the same positions today, Paul could be 6th, and Cozart 1st. But they're not. Anyone else think this is a permanent drop in the lineup for Cozart? :pray: That said, I really don't know where Paul would play regularly.

320

[MikeS21]

I just don't get Dusty. Ludwick has been the teams best hitter by far, and he sits. Bruce has been just meh, so why doesn't he sit to give Paul some at-bats?
Sit the only other LH hitter in the line-up? Besides, Bruce seems to be heating up a bit. There's only three OF spots, but five players who ought to see more playing time because they are all hitting fairly well at the moment.

[WVRedsFan]

The Ludwick situation is strange. Beats me.

[CySeymour]

Sit the only other LH hitter in the line-up? Besides, Bruce seems to be heating up a bit. There's only three OF spots, but five players who ought to see more playing time because they are all hitting fairly well at the moment.

Touche. Good point. I guess more then anything, my point is that with DatDude out, you should have your hottest hitter out there. Having someone besides Phillips and Valdez playing second puts a serious dent into your defense, especially with a ground ball pitcher on the mound that day. So, any extra runs you can score are extra important.

Now watch this lineup go out and put 10 runs on the board. I would gladly eat crow :)

[MikeS21]

Touche. Good point. I guess more then anything, my point is that with DatDude out, you should have your hottest hitter out there. Having someone besides Phillips and Valdez playing second puts a serious dent into your defense, especially with a ground ball pitcher on the mound that day. So, any extra runs you can score are extra important.

Now watch this lineup go out and put 10 runs on the board. I would gladly eat crow :)
Agreed. This 2B situation underscores the real need I felt the team had at the deadline - that is a left handed hitting veteran middle infielder who can fill in at 2B, SS, and maybe 3B. I wasn't real happy with Valdez, and hoped an upgrade would have been in the works.

That said, Cairo getting regular playing time for a few games may not be a bad thing. It may help him get untracked and he may put together a few nice AB's.

[WVRedsFan]

I guess the theory is that Cueto will throw a shutout, so a small number of runs will win the game. Johnny has been really shaky lately, so that's up to question. Should be interesting, but I won't see it or hear it. No TV or radio in the daytime here.

[cumberlandreds]

No Reds TV today. The Padres are televising. So if if you have EI or MLBTV you can see it.

[Kc61]

Dusty rests Ludwick every series. I've heard that he's not 100 percent healthy, but Dusty simply said he wants to keep him fresh.

What's odd about today is that Rolen IS playing a day game after night game. So Ludwick doesn't play the quick turnaround, Rolen does.

I like Valdez. He's versatile and does a lot of good things when he plays. I guess the Reds are lucky to have Cairo as the third string second baseman, a lot of teams would be really strapped without BP and Valdez. Just wish Cairo could hit a little more.

[Tony Cloninger]

Agreed. This 2B situation underscores the real need I felt the team had at the deadline - that is a left handed hitting veteran middle infielder who can fill in at 2B, SS, and maybe 3B. I wasn't real happy with Valdez, and hoped an upgrade would have been in the works.

That said, Cairo getting regular playing time for a few games may not be a bad thing. It may help him get untracked and he may put together a few nice AB's.

How can you not be happy with what Valdez has done? :confused:
Yes they need another INF but it's not beacuse Valdez has not done a good job. If anything they should have dropped Cairo after last night's game and realized before he has to take anymore AB's.... that they need someone else instead of hoping to continue to get by.

These injuries and relying on guys like Cairo to continue playing well.... is just not going to work IMO.

[Kc61]

How can you not be happy with what Valdez has done? :confused:
Yes they need another INF but it's not beacuse Valdez has not done a good job. If anything they should have dropped Cairo after last night's game and realized before he has to take anymore AB's.... that they need someone else instead of hoping to continue to get by.

These injuries and relying on guys like Cairo to continue playing well.... is just not going to work IMO.

Once Votto and Phillips are back, the Reds do not need another infielder IMO. Yes, with two starters out it gets tight, but the regular 25 man roster has enough infielders.

Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen, Frazier and Valdez is a fine, fully stocked infield. Every position has a starter and has good back up. Add in Cairo, the Reds have been overstocked in the infield.

The Reds have been short in the OUTFIELD this year. The team has gone with four outfielders most of this year. Cairo was kept instead of the usual fifth outfielder.

Right now, the Reds have five outfielders because, in essence, Votto was replaced by Paul. This raises the question of who goes when Votto returns from the DL.

[Tony Cloninger]

Once Votto and Phillips are back, the Reds do not need another infielder IMO. Yes, with two starters out it gets tight, but the regular 25 man roster has enough infielders.

Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen, Frazier and Valdez is a fine, fully stocked infield. Every position has a starter and has good back up. Add in Cairo, the Reds have been overstocked in the infield.

The Reds have been short in the OUTFIELD this year. The team has gone with four outfielders most of this year. IMO, Cairo was kept instead of the usual fifth outfielder.

Right now, the Reds have five outfielders because, in essence, Votto was replaced by Paul.


How is Valdez fine when he hurt his neck? Maybe not DL issue but still not fine.

BP is either milking how bad he is hurt for more twitter hits then ;) ....beacuse he sure did not sound like he was fine either.

Be proactive now and not when things start getting away from you.

[OnBaseMachine]

In the last 10 days Ludwick has gone 3-for-6 with two doubles and was benched the next day. Then 2-for-4 with two homers - benched. Last night 3-for-4 with a HR - benched the next day. I don't get it. With Votto and Phillips out, Reds need all of the offense they can get. Why take the guy who is pretty much carrying the offense out? I can understand the occasional day off but not this much.

[bucksfan2]

In the last 10 days Ludwick has gone 3-for-6 with two doubles and was benched the next day. Then 2-for-4 with two homers - benched. Last night 3-for-4 with a HR - benched the next day. I don't get it. With Votto and Phillips out, Reds need all of the offense they can get. Why take the guy who is pretty much carrying the offense out? I can understand the occasional day off but not this much.

Maybe getting proper rest is keeping him fresh and raking?

[Kc61]

In response to the Cloninger post, be pro-active in what way?

DL guys like Phillips and keep them out for two weeks so you can add some reserve infielder? DL Valdez because of a stiff neck? You'll pay a price for that down the road when they are able to play but are still DL'd.

I guess they could cut Cairo and add another reserve infielder for a few days until Phillips and Valdez are able to play. Seems like a major reaction to a few day problem.

The decision on Cairo will come when Votto returns from the DL.

[11larkin11]

Maybe getting proper rest is keeping him fresh and raking?

Stop making sense!

[REDREAD]

I missed part of the game where Valdez got hurt.. someone here said it was a stiff neck.. I guess he's day to day.. but have there been any estimates when he'd be ok again?

[powersackers]

Stop making sense!

Dusty Fully hinted/explained this in his post game on FSN last night. He said Ludwick is hot and he is going to keep him that way by resting him day game after night game and so he's ready to rake vs. PIT.

XP leading off, that's awesome! It's going to be a good day for the offense. 10 runs 15 hits good IMHO.

[powersackers]

I missed part of the game where Valdez got hurt.. someone here said it was a stiff neck.. I guess he's day to day.. but have there been any estimates when he'd be ok again?

Dusty said on FSN last night he hoped a good night's sleep would fix whatever is ailing Valdez's neck.

[OldXOhio]

Today would've been a nice Lyle Overbay kind of day.

[Big Klu]

Dusty rests Ludwick every series. I've heard that he's not 100 percent healthy, but Dusty simply said he wants to keep him fresh.

What's odd about today is that Rolen IS playing a day game after night game. So Ludwick doesn't play the quick turnaround, Rolen does.

I like Valdez. He's versatile and does a lot of good things when he plays. I guess the Reds are lucky to have Cairo as the third string second baseman, a lot of teams would be really strapped without BP and Valdez. Just wish Cairo could hit a little more.

Rolen has to play because he is one of only four healthy infielders.



Dusty said on FSN last night he hoped a good night's sleep would fix whatever is ailing Valdez's neck.

My experience is that sleeping actually aggravates a stiff neck.

[reds44]

Best record in baseball and winner of 19 of 22....complain about the lineup!

[pedro]

Dick Enberg is a great announcer.

[REDREAD]

Dusty said on FSN last night he hoped a good night's sleep would fix whatever is ailing Valdez's neck.

thanks for the update.

[reds44]

Padres announcer just said watching Cueto pitch is like watching Volquez pitch.

No, no it's not.

[OnBaseMachine]

1-2-3 first inning for Cueto. Two ground outs and a strike out of Headley.

[BCubb2003]

In the last 10 days Ludwick has gone 3-for-6 with two doubles and was benched the next day. Then 2-for-4 with two homers - benched. Last night 3-for-4 with a HR - benched the next day. I don't get it. With Votto and Phillips out, Reds need all of the offense they can get. Why take the guy who is pretty much carrying the offense out? I can understand the occasional day off but not this much.

Apparently, the benching thing is working.

[MikeS21]

Padres announcer just said watching Cueto pitch is like watching Volquez pitch.

No, no it's not.

1-2-3 first inning for Cueto. Two ground outs and a strike out of Headley.
Yep, Volquez made over!

[Tom Servo]

Maybe getting proper rest is keeping him fresh and raking?
This. Dusty said last night Ludwick isn't a "spring chicken" and that he wants to keep him raking so he'll do things like give him a rest in day games after night games and what have you.

[edabbs44]

Best record in baseball and winner of 19 of 22....complain about the lineup!

They could be 20-2 in that span.

[11larkin11]

They could be 20-2 in that span.

This goes both ways. If you count the game they gave up to the Padres, you can't count the game they stole down 6 from the D-Backs.

[OnBaseMachine]

1-2-3 second inning for Cueto.

[OnBaseMachine]

Rolen singles, Frazier 2-run HR! 2-0 Reds!

[11larkin11]

A gift from the Toddfather!

[VR]

In the last 10 days Ludwick has gone 3-for-6 with two doubles and was benched the next day. Then 2-for-4 with two homers - benched. Last night 3-for-4 with a HR - benched the next day. I don't get it. With Votto and Phillips out, Reds need all of the offense they can get. Why take the guy who is pretty much carrying the offense out? I can understand the occasional day off but not this much.

Look at it the other way. He did all those things after a day off.

Dusty spoke last night about the need to keep him fresh. I'm guessnig it's a mutal decision.

[CrackerJack]

Meanwhile Frazier goes deep - 2-0 Reds.

[edabbs44]

This goes both ways. If you count the game they gave up to the Padres, you can't count the game they stole down 6 from the D-Backs.

I think you missed the joke.

[Unassisted]

Hope Ohlendorf is in this game for a long time. The Reds hitters seem to have him figured out.

[MikeS21]

Uh oh. Look out! Miggie just singled! He is going to carry this team for the next week!

[cincrazy]

Hanigan double. 3-0 Reds.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cairo singled, Hanigan doubled to score Cozart who had singled. 3-0 Reds and runners are on 2nd and 3rd with no outs. Time to add on.

[Unassisted]

Hope Will Venable's not hurt, he hit that wall hard.

[NJReds]

Frazier has been huge for this team. Filling in for Rolen, filling in for Votto. Playing decent defense and producing at the plate.

All that for the team with the best record, and still if you put his picture on the monitor on ESPN Baseball Tonight, it would draw a collective yawn from the 'expert panel.'

[REDREAD]

Frazier has been huge for this team. Filling in for Rolen, filling in for Votto. Playing decent defense and producing at the plate.

All that for the team with the best record, and still if you put his picture on the monitor on ESPN Baseball Tonight, it would draw a collective yawn from the 'expert panel.'

Agree completely.. Another huge unexpected surprise (at least not expected from me).

[powersackers]

XP leading off, that's awesome! It's going to be a good day for the offense. 10 runs 15 hits good IMHO.

I might have under estimated...

[MikeS21]

Ohlendorf throwing that slider in the dirt and getting some folks to chase it.

[VR]

If they blow yet another lead.....I may have to go back to just doing work today.

[MikeS21]

Is it just me or is Stubbs seeing a few more pitches than a few weeks ago?

[RedsMan3203]

Brrruce!

[OnBaseMachine]

Jay Bruce 2-run single makes it 5-0 Reds!

[OnBaseMachine]

Now a balk makes it 6-0 Reds!

[REDREAD]

Man, it would be so nice to win this game (without Votto, Phillips, and Ludwick) and have a 3.5 game lead on the Pirates :)

[Tom Servo]

If they blow yet another lead.....I may have to go back to just doing work today.
Yeah, for the love of all that is holy, can they stop the Padres juggernaut offense for ONE game in this series?

[MikeS21]

Who's Joey Votto?

[RedsMan3203]

Another walk.... Pitching change coming up.....

[OnBaseMachine]

6-0 Reds. Bases loaded, two outs for Cozart. Rolen (single, walk) and Frazier (2-run HR, walk) have reached base twice in the second inning.

[MikeS21]

Hopefully, Cueto won't be affected by the long inning. He has cruised through the first couple innings.

[Tom Servo]

I know the Padres were dealt a big blow with Corey Luebke's injury, as well as Andrew Cashner's, but seriously...Jeff Suppan, Ross Ohlendorf, Kip Wells, and Jason Marquis? No matter how long the GM has been in place (Byrnes was just promoted this offseason), Redszone would be calling for his head daily.:barf:

[MikeS21]

I know the Padres were dealt a big blow with Corey Luebke's injury, as well as Andrew Cashner's, but seriously...Jeff Suppan, Ross Ohlendorf, Kip Wells, and Jason Marquis? No matter how long the GM has been in place (Byrnes was just promoted this offseason), Redszone would be calling for his head daily.:barf:
Not too long ago, that WAS the Reds' starting pitching! lol!

What's with Cozart and all these pop outs?

[Tom Servo]

What's with Cozart and all these pop outs?
He's the mirror universe Joey Votto.

[Tom Servo]

Some dude named Eddy Rodriguez homered for SD


It Begins! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JUCfX1P1ik)

[RedsMan3203]

1st Home Run Cueto has given up since May 25th. Wow!

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Reds offense has big inning. Reds starter then struggles. Strange trend.

Was that Eddie's 1st ML AB?

[MikeS21]

I wondered if Johnnie would come back out a little rusty after a long inning. He needs to bear down here and stop the leaking.

[VR]

Some dude named Eddy Rodriguez homered for SD




The Courtship of Eddy's Padre. There's a joke or pun in there somewhere.

[cincrazy]

Cairo bobbles a for-sure DP ball, but gets the runner at first. Runners at 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs now.

[smith288]

Can we please DFA Cairo. Dude's done nothing but force the other players to make up for his failures.

[membengal]

Per brantley, inning should have ended with dp ball, but cairo messed it up.

[cincrazy]

Unbelievable. 6-3 on a single to SS that Cozart couldn't handle.

[membengal]

Those two runs are on cairo.

[MikeS21]

Those two runs are on cairo.
And Cozart.

[cincrazy]

What a strange series. I'll be glad when it's over.

[OldXOhio]

What a strange series. I'll be glad when it's over.

Amen to that. I don't care what their record is, SD has caused a lot of heartburn lately.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

And just like that a 6-run lead is cut in half.

[Kc61]

And Cozart.

It's on Cairo.

The hit to Cozart was very hard hit, was a tough play.

Cairo had an easy double play.

Now Cueto 3-0 on Quentin.

[smith288]

Holy crap... This starting staff HATES big leads.

[VR]

This series feels like the lost decade. (except they'll win 3 of 4) No lead is ever safe

How I live through that, I can't figure out.

[Tom Servo]

Come on Johnny

[BuckeyeRedleg]

6-0 lead with Cueto on the hill is not even safe.

Cairo needs to go. Yesterday.

[OnBaseMachine]

Miguel Cairo provides nothing of value.

[VR]

I get the slow bat, loss of power, etc.

But Miguel's poor defense has been a real blow to the team this year. Much rather have Juan Castro. That pretty much sums up how bad he has become.

[Kc61]

Miguel Cairo provides nothing of value.

I agree, there really is no place on the Reds team for Cairo.

But Cueto hasn't been as good lately.

That inning he allowed a home run to a rookie on his first at bat.

He then allowed two hits.

Cairo then messed up.

Then a very hard hit ball to Cozart that he couldn't handle.

Three runs. Cueto far from blameless.

Cairo - bunt single, second hit of the day.

[Homer Bailey]

I get the slow bat, loss of power, etc.

But Miguel's poor defense has been a real blow to the team this year. Much rather have Juan Castro. That pretty much sums up how bad he has become.

Exactly.

At least Valdez can pick it pretty cleanly.

And of course Cairo bunt singles to extend his tenure as a Major League Baseball player.

[cincrazy]

Kelch and Brantley on the radio are simply terrible. Hanigan's line drive out to RF sounded like a sure base hit the way Brantley made it sound.

[MikeS21]

Exactly.

At least Valdez can pick it pretty cleanly.

And of course Cairo bunt singles to extend his tenure as a Major League Baseball player.
Why couldn't he get the bunt down last night? :p

[VR]

Exactly.

At least Valdez can pick it pretty cleanly.

And of course Cairo bunt singles to extend his tenure as a Major League Baseball player.

Two straight hits, and his average skyrockets up to .159.

[REDREAD]

Kelch and Brantley on the radio are simply terrible. Hanigan's line drive out to RF sounded like a sure base hit the way Brantley made it sound.

I wish they could clone Chris Welch so that he could be on both TV and radio at the same time. He's my favorite announcer.

[Kc61]

I get the slow bat, loss of power, etc.

But Miguel's poor defense has been a real blow to the team this year. Much rather have Juan Castro. That pretty much sums up how bad he has become.

I think we're piling on. Cairo hasn't hit, I'm ready for someone different, but exactly how has Cairo's defense been a "real blow" to the Reds this year?

He's played very well at first base. He hardly ever plays third and hasn't really hurt the club there.

He is playing second as a third string emergency second baseman and made a terrible play. That I'll agree with.

[membengal]

And Cozart.



I suppose. Just going by fact that inning should have been over prior to that.

[Kc61]

Cairo allows another Padres homer, now 6-4. Maybin.

[RedsMan3203]

:alcohol:

[Reds Freak]

Starting pitching has been a disaster this series. Amazing they could win 3 of 4.

[edabbs44]

Cairo allows another Padres homer, now 6-4. Maybin.

Was just going to post the same thing.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I wish they could clone Chris Welch so that he could be on both TV and radio at the same time. He's my favorite announcer.

I think Welsh is great, but have you ever heard him do play-by-play on the radio.

It's bad.

Worse than Brantley.

[MikeS21]

Need some add-on here, fellas.

[Tom Servo]

Need some add-on here, fellas.
You ain't lying.

[OldXOhio]

I think Welsh is great, but have you ever heard him to play-by-play on the radio.

It's bad.

Worse than Brantley.

Inpossible

[Tom Servo]

Padres are up to 25 runs in 3 and not quite a half games against us.

[REDREAD]

I think Welsh is great, but have you ever heard him to play-by-play on the radio.

It's bad.

Worse than Brantley.

I've heard him on radio, I guess I consider it a treat, compared to the normal jokers that appear in the booth.

Kelch is the best non-explayer announcer.

I guess I don't even mind Brantley that much.

The Brennamans are the worst.. Thom is horrible on the TV. I remember the last game on TV I saw with Thom. The Reds are leading, but a Red failed to get a bunt down which lead to a huge rant by Thom.. The Brannamans don't realize that nobody successfully sacrifice bunts 100% of the time. They act like everyone should be perfect every time. They are annoying far too often, which outweighs their sometimes good moments.

Doug Flynn on radio is horrible.

[OldXOhio]

I can't tell if the roation in this series is an anomaly or a sign of things to come?

[VR]

I think we're piling on. Cairo hasn't hit, I'm ready for someone different, but exactly how has Cairo's defense been a "real blow" to the Reds this year?

He's played very well at first base. He hardly ever plays third and hasn't really hurt the club there.

He is playing second as a third string emergency second baseman and made a terrible play. That I'll agree with.

His not making plays have cost the Reds greatly. Bobbled DP balls, high throws when he's playing first that directly resulted in runs, plus his general inability to field anything not directly at him.

Has become far too much of a liability w/ the leather.

[membengal]

Cairo allows another Padres homer, now 6-4. Maybin.


I guess i dont accept the jab. Starting pitchers giving up solo homeruns in gabp on an august afternoon is unsurprising to me. Even from someone as good as cueto. Its extra bonus runs from crap D that tend to be deadly in gabp especially on days where the ball is flying.

[Kc61]

I guess i dont accept the jab. Starting pitchers giving up solo homeruns in gabp on an august afternoon is unsurprising to me. Even from someone as good as cueto. Its extra bonus runs from crap D that tend to be deadly in gabp especially on days where the ball is flying.

Wasn't a personal jab.

The game thread is being kind to Cueto IMO. He's allowed two homers in four innings. He allowed two baserunners (on hits) who scored, in part due to the misplay, and in part because of a third hit - a hard hit shot to Cozart.

I said Cairo's play was terrible. But Johnny doesn't get a lot of kudos for today, either.

[OnBaseMachine]

1st and 3rd, no outs, need some insurance runs.

[OldXOhio]

I've heard him on radio, I guess I consider it a treat, compared to the normal jokers that appear in the booth.

Kelch is the best non-explayer announcer.

I guess I don't even mind Brantley that much.

The Brennamans are the worst.. Thom is horrible on the TV. I remember the last game on TV I saw with Thom. The Reds are leading, but a Red failed to get a bunt down which lead to a huge rant by Thom.. The Brannamans don't realize that nobody successfully sacrifice bunts 100% of the time. They act like everyone should be perfect every time. They are annoying far too often, which outweighs their sometimes good moments.

Doug Flynn on radio is horrible.

Thom let everyone know last night the name of the new Reds reliever: Eric Gagne.

[OnBaseMachine]

Rolen singles on a wacky play. 7-4 Reds. Runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.

[Brutus]

I can't tell if the roation in this series is an anomaly or a sign of things to come?

Probably an anomaly, but I don't think the individuals are as good as the whole staff combined. So I'm not surprised they'd go through this rough patch.

[MikeS21]

Rolen slowly creeping the average up.

[Kc61]

First and third, one run in, one out, Cozart up, bottom four, 7-4 Reds.

2-1 count. Need a fly ball.

[membengal]

Wasn't a personal jab.

The game thread is being kind to Cueto IMO. He's allowed two homers in four innings. He allowed two baserunners (on hits) who scored, in part due to the misplay, and in part because of a third hit - a hard hit shot to Cozart.

I said Cairo's play was terrible. But Johnny doesn't get a lot of kudos for today, either.

No problem KC, and I wasn't necessarily giving "kudos" to Cueto. I also, though, am going to cut Cueto a ton of slack, as he's been so good for so long that an occasional hiccup relative to his high standards hardly seems fair game for complaint.

Particularly when poor D pours gas on a fire. When I look at this one, I don't worry a ton about the solo homers. I do confess to some frustration with poor D from Cairo that doubled the damage.

If that's unfair, my bad.

[Kc61]

No problem KC, and I wasn't necessarily giving "kudos" to Cueto. I also, though, am going to cut Cueto a ton of slack, as he's been so good for so long that an occasional hiccup relative to his high standards hardly seems fair game for complaint.

Particularly when poor D pours gas on a fire. When I look at this one, I don't worry a ton about the solo homers. I do confess to some frustration with poor D from Cairo that doubled the damage.

If that's unfair, my bad.

Not unfair. I do think Cueto has been a bit less wonderful lately.

Has Cy Young numbers, not sure lately he's been that caliber.

But it's a long season, most pitchers have ups and downs.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cozart singles to make it 8-4 Reds. First and second, one out for Miguel Cairo.

[Brutus]

For all the metrics, measurements and quantifiers we have for baseball, as much as it sometimes makes sense putting into context, it still can be a funny game. No Votto? Go on a 13-3 tear. No Votto, No Rolen and No Ludwick in the lineup today? No Problem. Just score 8 runs already in 4 innings.

Strange game sometimes.

[Kc61]

Terrific catch by Quentin robs Cairo of an extra base hit.

[cincrazy]

Brantley turns another routine out into what sounded like a HR call. I want to strangle him.

[RedsfaninMT]

Brantley turns another routine out into what sounded like a HR call. I want to strangle him.

If that was routine, I want to see spectacular.

[cincrazy]

Well, maybe it wasn't a routine play, but he sure made it seem like it was a goner.

[cincrazy]

If that was routine, I want to see spectacular.

Sorry, I wasn't watching it live, I assumed he just caught it at the wall standing up, didn't know it was a spectacular play until Brantley went into more detail.

[RedsfaninMT]

Well, maybe it wasn't a routine play, but he sure made it seem like it was a goner.

Off the bat, that's what I thought. That was a fantastic play by Quentin crashing into the fence. Otherwise Cairo is at least standing on 2nd.

[Kc61]

One on, two outs for Padres in the fifth. Reds by four.

[Tom Servo]

For all the metrics, measurements and quantifiers we have for baseball, as much as it sometimes makes sense putting into context, it still can be a funny game. No Votto? Go on a 13-3 tear. No Votto, No Rolen and No Ludwick in the lineup today? No Problem. Just score 8 runs already in 4 innings.

Strange game sometimes.
Not to mention the X-Man is unstoppable as a pinch hitter of late, gets a start, and so far is 0-3 with 2 K's.


Beisbol es loco.

[reds44]

You ever notice how similar Cozart's swing is to Janish's when he was here? Obvious Cozart is a way more talented offensive player, but their swings are very similar. Janish had an issue with pop outs as well.

[Homer Bailey]

Cueto blows three straight fastballs by Quentin. 95-95-96.

[Kc61]

Cueto fans Quentin. I think he has 73 pitches through 5, not sure if that's updated.

[VR]

8K's through 5 for Cueto....and still a good pitch count with only 73.

[reds44]

The Padres reporter lady could get it.

[Homer Bailey]

The Padres reporter lady could get it.

En Fuego

[RedsfaninMT]

Anybody else notice Cueto looking slightly uncomfortable (physically) on the mound right now?

[RedsMan3203]

Cozart anyone? Sounded like a hellllllll of a play....

[reds44]

What a DP!

[Homer Bailey]

RIDICULOUS PLAY BY COZART! 6-4-3!

Top 10 for sure!

[Tom Servo]

I think Welsh is great, but have you ever heard him do play-by-play on the radio.

It's bad.

Worse than Brantley.
Plus if he's on radio, we don't get to see things like this.

http://i.imgur.com/6yUNR.jpg

[RedsfaninMT]

Have to give Cairo some credit on that one. Nice job reaching back with the bare hand, though his throw was pretty poor. Nice job all around.

[Homer Bailey]

For those that couldn't see, Cozart dove on a grounder up the middle, from his belly flipped to Cairo, who bare handed, threw to first, and Frazier scooped it.

[MikeS21]

Plus if he's on radio, we don't get to see things like this.

http://i.imgur.com/6yUNR.jpg
How in the world can Thom keep a straight face? :lol:

[membengal]

For those that couldn't see, Cozart dove on a grounder up the middle, from his belly flipped to Cairo, who bare handed, threw to first, and Frazier scooped it.



Thanks.

Radio duo went nuts but didnt describe it all that well.

[MikeS21]

Thanks.

Radio duo went nuts but didnt describe it all that well.
Cairo must have done something right. :p

[BCubb2003]

Sorry, I wasn't watching it live, I assumed he just caught it at the wall standing up, didn't know it was a spectacular play until Brantley went into more detail.


For those that couldn't see, Cozart dove on a grounder up the middle, from his belly flipped to Cairo, who bare handed, threw to first, and Frazier scooped it.

I think it only happened because they've all been watching Phillips.

[Homer Bailey]

Hard to do that play justice just describing it. Maybin runs really well too.

[Homer Bailey]

It sounds like Chapman is not going to be available today. Which I'm more than fine with. Unless its a one run game in the 9th I hand it over to Marshall-Broxton to close it.

[VR]

anyone else having issues w/ gameday?

[Kc61]

It sounds like Chapman is not going to be available today. Which I'm more than fine with. Unless its a one run game in the 9th I hand it over to Marshall-Broxton to close it.

Marshall pitched two innings on Tuesday and one inning Wednesday. Pirates coming to town.

I think we may have to live with someone like Arredondo or Ondrusek setting up Broxton.

[klw]

Hard to do that play justice just describing it. Maybin runs really well too.

mlb.com has it up in the game video already.

[VR]

http://www.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23555277&topic_id=&c_id=cin&partnerId=aw-6515687242089173933-1025


Good lord....that was three great plays in one

[reds44]

Ideally the Reds keep at least a 4 run lead and you can use LeCure/Ondrusek/Arredondo and rest everybody else heading into the weekend.

[Homer Bailey]

Marshall pitched two innings on Tuesday and one inning Wednesday. Pirates coming to town.

I think we may have to live with someone like Arredondo or Ondrusek setting up Broxton.

Right. IF the lead stays as is, obviously I'd like to avoid using Marshall. But if it gets closer, I can still see him being used.

[VR]

Marshall pitched two innings on Tuesday and one inning Wednesday. Pirates coming to town.

I think we may have to live with someone like Arredondo or Ondrusek setting up Broxton.

Arredondo and Ondrusek only. Would rather have Broxton rested as well for the weekend.

[FlightRick]

Rest of the game is now airing as bonus coverage on MLB Network.

[Kc61]

Right. IF the lead stays as is, obviously I'd like to avoid using Marshall. But if it gets closer, I can still see him being used.

Padres use a lot of lefty hitters, so Marshall is an important guy to have available. Cueto seems to be getting stronger now, so maybe he pitches the eighth.

[RedsfaninMT]

So much for Cairo hurting us defensively.

[Homer Bailey]

Nice play by Cairo there to snag a line drive.

[Tom Servo]

http://www.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23555277&topic_id=&c_id=cin&partnerId=aw-6515687242089173933-1025


Good lord....that was three great plays in one
:eek:

[reds44]

Can you imagine what Cam Newton would do to people playing handball?

[Homer Bailey]

Can you imagine what Cam Newton would do to people playing handball?

"I was just thinking that myself"

-No one-

Hahaha

[Tom Servo]

Cozart just looks much better when he's not batting leadoff.

[reds44]

"I was just thinking that myself"

-No one-

Hahaha
Hahaha put on NBC Sports and watch this. We should kill people in this sport.

[Tom Servo]

SD announcers believe Cairo is the game's MVP. :D

[VR]

So much for Cairo hurting us defensively.

Miguel reads RZ between innings.

[Homer Bailey]

"Cairo, standing there like a Sphinx, takes strike 3."

WOW Dick Enberg, haha.

[Homer Bailey]

Hahaha put on NBC Sports and watch this. We should kill people in this sport.

Believe it or not, I'm at work, haha.

[reds44]

Believe it or not, I'm at work, haha.
Clearly accomplishing a lot today lol

[Tom Servo]

back to back hits for Hanigan and Cueto with two outs. Can the X-Man get his first hit of the day?

[Homer Bailey]

Cueto pulled up a little bit gingerly there after his hit...

[Tom Servo]

Nope. Golden Sombrero for Paul today.

8-4 Reds after 7

[reds44]

The Reds should just hit the pitcher leadoff.

[Homer Bailey]

Cueto pitch count?

[Tom Servo]

Cueto pitch count?
92

[HokieRed]

Might be a little preliminary to get rid of Miggy in order to keep Paul.

[reds44]

Cueto pitch count?
92.

[Homer Bailey]

Did I just hear Ondrusek is up in the pen?

[RedsMan3203]

Did I just hear Ondrusek is up in the pen?

Yes.

Now Cueto is grabbing at his back?

[Tom Servo]

Venable singled
Headley grounded out to first, get the lead runner but not Headley at first.


Cueto looks exhausted, so here comes Ondrusek.

[Kc61]

Dusty lecturing Cueto on the mound. Ondrusek in, one on, one out, eighth inning.

[VR]

Gameday not working, now gamecast freezes up.

How am I supposed to slack off from work if I can't follow the game!?!?

[Homer Bailey]

"Time to take out my best starter, and go to by 2nd worst reliever"

-Dusty-

[Benihana]

"Time to take out my best starter, and go to by 2nd worst reliever"

-Dusty-


With a 4 run lead and an exhausted bullpen, when would there be a better time for this?

[reds44]

26 k/22 bb.

My lord that's awful.

[powersackers]

Yes.

Now Cueto is grabbing at his back?

GameCast said "injury delay" then Cueto removed from game. Are we concerned?

[Kc61]

I guess every time Ondrusek pitches posters have their fun.

Two out now.

[cincrazy]

Who is Dusty supposed to bring in here? Goodness gracious, no matter what he does he's going to get raked through the coals. He's managing the team with the best record in baseball. Maybe he knows what he's doing?

[VR]

"Time to take out my best starter, and go to by 2nd worst reliever"

-Dusty-

If our 2nd worst reliever can't pitch with a 4 run lead in the 8th, then we don't need a 2nd worst reliever. I guess that's unpossible though.

[MikeS21]

"Time to take out my best starter, and go to by 2nd worst reliever"

-Dusty-
The 2nd worst reliever, who would probably be the 2nd best reliever on the majority of the other teams in the league! ;)

[Homer Bailey]

With a 4 run lead and an exhausted bullpen, when would there be a better time for this?

He should be mop up, aka Simon's role. This should be Arrendondo/Simon time.

[cincrazy]

He should be mop up, aka Simon's role. This should be Arrendondo/Simon time.

Arredondo was absolutely awful in July.

[Benihana]

I'm totally fine with bringing in Ondrusek here. Is Cueto hurt?

[RedsMan3203]

He should be mop up, aka Simon's role. This should be Arrendondo/Simon time.

I'm starting to get you confused with Reds44 -- Are you running two accounts?

[bellhead]

He should be mop up, aka Simon's role. This should be Arrendondo/Simon time.

Agree Simon should be getting more opps..

Good game by Cueto... 7.1 innings...

[cincrazy]

I'm totally fine with bringing in Ondrusek here. Is Cueto hurt?

Didn't look like anything major. I don't think he wanted to come out, Dusty and Lessard appeared to overrule him. He looked exhausted more than anything.

[Homer Bailey]

The 2nd worst reliever, who would probably be the 2nd best reliever on the majority of the other teams in the league! ;)

Literally not a single team.

[CrackerJack]

I'm totally fine with bringing in Ondrusek here. Is Cueto hurt?

Word. What's going on? All we need are the 3 best players on the team to be on the DL or missing games right now - geesh.

[RedsMan3203]

And O gets them both.......

[cincrazy]

Literally not a single team.

You're absolutely exaggerating how bad Ondrusek is. He's not great, but the guy isn't actually Josias Manzanillo during his Reds tenure.

[Brutus]

Ondrusek got the job done. Who's next on the chopping block?

[11larkin11]

Ondrusek is terrible. Why bring him in here?

Oh wait. He got the last two outs.

[REDREAD]

Ondrusek is terrible. Why bring him in here?

Oh wait. He got the last two outs.

:laugh:

[Chip R]

You're absolutely exaggerating how bad Ondrusek is. He's not great, but the guy isn't actually Josias Manzanillo during his Reds tenure.

That's true, because, as far as we know, Logan has a pair.

[Homer Bailey]

Arredondo was absolutely awful in July.

xFIP in July:

Arredondo: 3.93
Ondrusek: 6.23

[Tom Servo]

I believe in pitching peripherals and that Ondrusek isn't very good, but my god, he isn't THAT bad. He is not a walking disaster.

[Homer Bailey]

You're absolutely exaggerating how bad Ondrusek is. He's not great, but the guy isn't actually Josias Manzanillo during his Reds tenure.

He's a below average reliever. He's a guy I would expect to be in the back end of a bullpen, which is fine to have. I just don't like trusting him with leads. Leads of any kind really.

And sure, he got two outs. Doesn't make it the right move, or make him good. Sorry, it doesn't.

[RedsMan3203]

Ondrusek is terrible. Why bring him in here?

Oh wait. He got the last two outs.

Wait, lets bring in Danny Graves!

[Homer Bailey]

I believe in pitching peripherals and that Ondrusek isn't very good, but my god, he isn't THAT bad. He is not a walking disaster.

You're right. He's not a gas can. On a team with a worse bullpen, he wouldn't stick out nearly as much. But he's the worst option down there next to Bray. Fair?

[REDREAD]

I like bringing Logan in here. The bullpen has been ridden hard of late.
It's a 4 run lead.
There's time to rescue the game if Logan got hit hard.
I agree that Logan isn't horrible.

I hope either Logan or another second teir guy finishes the game, so we can save the first teir guys for the Pirates.

[Brutus]

He's a below average reliever. He's a guy I would expect to be in the back end of a bullpen, which is fine to have. I just don't like trusting him with leads. Leads of any kind really.

And sure, he got two outs. Doesn't make it the right move, or make him good. Sorry, it doesn't.

Just FYI, his OPS against has been above league average for relievers in each of the past three seasons.

[MikeS21]

You're right. He's not a gas can. On a team with a worse bullpen, he wouldn't stick out nearly as much. But he's the worst option down there next to Bray. Fair?
:lol! I don't even think Bray is all that bad compared to 90% of the relievers in baseball!

[Homer Bailey]

Just FYI, his OPS against has been above league average for relievers in each of the past three seasons.

Because he's been insanely BABIP lucky, and I'm guessing you know that. Career FIP of 4.41, and xFIP of 4.56. -0.3 WAR for his career. He's basically a below replacement level reliever.

[wolfboy]

Just FYI, his OPS against has been above league average for relievers in each of the past three seasons.

He's enjoyed a much lower than average BABIP. That may have something to do with it.

[VR]

Bruce single, Rolen single.

Really REALLY glad to see their bats waking up.

[Benihana]

Should've traded him for Victorino. Oh wait, wrong thread...

Ondrusek is outstanding as a #5 reliever. That's all that really matters in my book. Being up 4 runs in the 8th inning of a game after a grueling series is a great time to bring in your #5 reliever.

[VR]

Should've traded him for Victorino. Oh wait, wrong thread...

Ondrusek is outstanding as a #5 reliever. That's all that really matters in my book. Being up 4 runs in the 8th inning of a game after a grueling series is a great time to bring in your #5 reliever.

Leading into a grueling series as well.

[MikeS21]

Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ...

[Benihana]

Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ...

x2

[Puffy]

Per Reds.com - Logan O has stranded the last 16 inherited numbers.

Worstest. Reliever. Evah!!

[Kc61]

9-4 ballgame.

I think Ondrusek is ok. He tends to fade later in the season, maybe he'll do better in late 2012 with less work.

Arredondo apparently warming up.

[Brutus]

Because he's been insanely BABIP lucky, and I'm guessing you know that. Career FIP of 4.41, and xFIP of 4.56. -0.3 WAR for his career. He's basically a below replacement level reliever.

If you ignore the possibility that after three consecutive years, perhaps it's not that terribly lucky, sure.

Even if you regress his BABIP to .300, which seems like a reach considering he's maintained his BABIP in three straight seasons, you're still left with an OPS against of league average.

So no, he's actually not a replacement level reliever. He's more like an average reliever.

And for the record, I like FIP and xFIP, but I think the true measure of a pitcher is in between FIP and OPS. I don't think either extremes are the most accurate measures of a pitcher. I think it's too little to not account for anything in play, but I also think not all of what happens in play was the doing of a pitcher. So I don't think OPS against is perfect, but I don't think FIP is either.

[Homer Bailey]

Should've traded him for Victorino. Oh wait, wrong thread...

Ondrusek is outstanding as a #5 reliever. That's all that really matters in my book. Being up 4 runs in the 8th inning of a game after a grueling series is a great time to bring in your #5 reliever.

1. Chapman

2. Marshall

3. Broxton
Simon
Arredondo (in some order)

6.Lecure
Hoover (who I realize is not here)

8. Ondrusek





9. Bray

In no way is Ondrusek better than any of the guys I listed above him. He should not be a #5 reliever.

[Homer Bailey]

Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ...

I'm glad the days are gone where people can just make claims about a player's ability without being able to support that with "what they're eyes tell them."

[VR]

I'm glad the days are gone where people can just make claims about a player's ability without being able to support that with "what they're eyes tell them."

Good for you Homer. Teach us something, will ya?

[Homer Bailey]

For the record, I would have let Ondrusek pitch the 9th here.

[VR]

For the record, I would have let Ondrusek pitch the 9th here.

Price
Less

:laugh:

[MikeS21]

I'm glad the days are gone where people can just make claims about a player's ability without being able to support that with "what they're eyes tell them."
Why? It worked just fine for us back in 70's when we were watching the Big Red Machine.

[Homer Bailey]

Price
Less

:laugh:

There's a difference between pitching with the tying run in the whole, and starting the inning with a 5 run lead.

[Sea Ray]

You're absolutely exaggerating how bad Ondrusek is. He's not great, but the guy isn't actually Josias Manzanillo during his Reds tenure.

Oooooo :scared:

That's a name I haven't heard for a long time

[MikeS21]

Oooooo :scared:

That's a name I haven't heard for a long time
I know, right?

[Homer Bailey]

Why? It worked just fine for us back in 70's when we were watching the Big Red Machine.

Newsflash: Those teams were really, really good statistically. Whether people understood the stats behind it at the time is irrelevant. Those teams won because they were really well rounded in almost all facets of the game.

[Tom Servo]

Strikes, Jose. Strikes.

[Homer Bailey]

Jose doing what Jose does. Fire strikes man, c'mon.

[Sea Ray]

Newsflash: Those teams were really, really good statistically. Whether people understood the stats behind it at the time is irrelevant. Those teams won because they were really well rounded in almost all facets of the game.

You must really "love it" when Chris and Thom slam saber guys like they did last night. Did you catch that?

[wolfboy]

You must really "love it" when Chris and Thom slam saber guys like they did last night. Did you catch that?

Is that a newsflash?

[Tom Servo]

We're still good! :beerme:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Nice win! The margaritas will taste even better at Buffett tonight at Riverbend. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a couple of Reds there. :beerme:

[wolfboy]

Frigging awesome to see this team keep rolling. Bring on the Pirates!!

[Homer Bailey]

You must really "love it" when Chris and Thom slam saber guys like they did last night. Did you catch that?

I didn't, but I could really not care less what guys like that say. Statistical analysis has become more mainstream over the years, but its guys like that that hold up its development even more by not being informed and clouding their viewers minds with comments like the ones they probably made.

And this one belongs to the Reds!

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Hey Pirates: Hear those fireworks?

(I'm sure they're downtown by now)

[Tom Servo]

If we win 10 in a row again does Marty have to shave his head again?

[VR]

Love it.

[Chip R]

If we win 10 in a row again does Marty have to shave his head again?

Not his head. :eek:

[wolfboy]

Not his head. :eek:

Thanks. Now how do I get rid of that image?

[powersackers]

My Reds scoring prediction from pre game was 1 run and 2 hits shy. I'll take that!

[CySeymour]

Not his head. :eek:

His legs? :p

[Sea Ray]

My Reds scoring prediction from pre game was 1 run and 2 hits shy. I'll take that!

You da man! :thumbup:

Were I to predict it would have been about 7 runs shy

[Sea Ray]

So who's up for heading to Paul Brown Stadium for the Bengals practice at 6pm? Seems like an appropriate way to celebrate a Reds win

[traderumor]

Ondrusek is inconsistent, but I think Homer Bailey is piling on. Having watched a lot of baseball this year, there are some bullpens that could use Ondrusek. As for a now back-end of the bullpen guy, he's strong enough to be above average in that role.

[traderumor]

I predicted 3 of 4 for this series, but man, the Padres were very pesky in doing it. The series was starting to remind me of the bad old days. Waiting for Todd Van Poppel to appear out of the bullpen in relief of Jimmy Haynes. If it were not for the bullpen, we could have very easily lost 3 of 4 in this series.

However, I don't think any "regression" or "Verducci factor" panic is warranted just yet for the starters. I still think it was the random nature of the game.

[WVRedsFan]

Big win and the lead is now 3.5 games. Just a little slice of Heaven...

[Homer Bailey]

Reds have a 2 game lead on the Nats for home field and for the best record in the majors.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Nice to see Cozart moved down in the order.

I was a bit nervous of what would happen when Paul got a full game start. It seems that was a legitimate concern. Overexposed.

All the hand-wringing about Cairo...and he has a very solid game. I saw 2 webgems from him in the highlights. Diving stab that Enberg was incredulous about. And the barehanded reception of the Cozart flip to start the really slick DP. Toss in a 2 for 4 with a run scored...nice game for Miggy.

Looks like it was a good game overall. Sad I missed it.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ...

Bingo. I like Ondrusek. And I don't need xFIP, WAR, xWAR, ZIPS, unZIPS, UNICEF, ACLU, LMAO, ATOBTTR or any other set of initials to tell me that he's a pretty serviceable reliever.

[traderumor]

Bingo. I like Ondrusek. And I don't need xFIP, WAR, xWAR, ZIPS, unZIPS, UNICEF, ACLU, LMAO, ATOBTTR or any other set of initials to tell me that he's a pretty serviceable reliever.To be fair to Ondrusek, or any reliever, you have to compare him to others filling a similar role in the bullpen. While it would be hard to define, it would not be impossible. I would imagine he stacks up pretty well if you ranked relief pitchers 5-7 in the pecking order around MLB.