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Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Reds lineup:

Zack Cozart SS
Chris Heisey CF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Ryan Ludwick LF
Jay Bruce RF
Todd Frazier 1B
Scott Rolen 3B
Ryan Hanigan C
Homer Bailey P

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Cardinals lineup:

Jon Jay CF
Matt Carpenter 3B
Matt Holliday LF
Allen Craig 1B
Carlos Beltran RF
Yadier Molina C
Skip Schumaker 2B
Rafael Furcal SS
Adam Wainwright P

Kc61
08-26-2012, 12:51 PM
So Chapman didn't pitch Thursday, Friday, or Saturday.

Use him for two innings today if the Reds have a lead?

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Figured Stubbs earned himself a benching after yesterday.

oneupper
08-26-2012, 12:57 PM
Molina nursing a sore ankle. Freese still day to day with a hand injury, I believe.

mth123
08-26-2012, 01:19 PM
Molina nursing a sore ankle. Freese still day to day with a hand injury, I believe.

I think Freese is a pretty good player, but they don't lose much with Carpenter in there. He hits and played pretty well at 3B yesterday.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 01:37 PM
So Chapman didn't pitch Thursday, Friday, or Saturday.

Use him for two innings today if the Reds have a lead?

I would, without thinking.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 01:48 PM
The Reds have their work cut out for them with Wainwright. He hasn't given up more than 2 runs per start dating back to July 13th, the last time he faced the Reds (4 runs that day).

11larkin11
08-26-2012, 01:57 PM
Both teams basically going with their A-teams today. Good to see.

hebroncougar
08-26-2012, 02:00 PM
Both teams basically going with their A-teams today. Good to see.

Agreed, lets win the series!

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:00 PM
It's go time..... Lets have some fun!

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 02:02 PM
Today's home plate umpire is Brian Runge, who has called two no-hitters (http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-06-10/umpire-brian-runge-with-2-no-hitters-called-in-12)this year.

Runge's stats are HERE (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/umpire_cards/ump_cards.php?umpire=28). In 15 games umped this year, total runs per game averages 7.93, below average, see HERE (http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/stats/umpire-report/).

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Also will be interesting to see Hanigan catch for Homer.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Jay grounds out to 2nd.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:12 PM
Jay with a slow ground to Phillips, 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:12 PM
Carpenter flies out to left on the first pitch

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:14 PM
Holliday strikes out swinging. 0-0 mid 1st.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:14 PM
1-2-3 inning for Homer


Reds are wearing their alternate red uniforms for the 2nd straight day, for those keeping score at home.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:14 PM
8 pitch inning for Homer.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:14 PM
Only saw one bad pitch from Homer that set... Left a breakball up and inside... But called a strike.

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:14 PM
Holy crap, six of the eight starters for stl hitting over .300 and the other two in the .270's
How had this team ever lost?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:16 PM
Reds have a 31-13 record in day games this year.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 02:16 PM
Also will be interesting to see Hanigan catch for Homer.

Ryan Hanigan lead the NL in catcher ERA, Here. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false)

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:17 PM
Ryan Hanigan lead the NL in catcher ERA, Here. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false)

I'm sure catching Cueto and Latos helps that number ;)

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:17 PM
Cozart grounds out to 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:18 PM
Heisey grounds out to 2nd.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:19 PM
Wow, BP is slow.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Phillips singles to right and is thrown out at 2nd attempting to strech it into a double.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Brandon Phillips is probably the worst baserunner the Reds have had in a long time.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Looked like Phillips was safe.

mth123
08-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Looked like Phillips was safe.

Ball beat him by a mile, but I didn't see a tag.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Ball beat him by a mile, but I didn't see a tag.

Ball beat him, but it looks like one of those magical mystery tags....

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:21 PM
He generally don't run all out coming out of the box unless it's a possible infield hit or double play

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:22 PM
Craig grounds out to short.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:23 PM
9 pitches, 4 outs for Homer.

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Ball beat him by a mile, but I didn't see a tag.

Think he tagged Him about the thigh but the ump can't see the tag up there and if foots on base at same time so just went with the more likely call.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Beltran strikes out swinging. 2 Ks for Homer.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Boo birds are out for Mr. Neck Tattoo... Wish they'd stop that.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:25 PM
9 pitches, 4 outs for Homer.

With this umpire, who calls a lot of strikes, Cards probably instructed to swing early and often.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Molina flies out to center. A 9 pitch inning. 0-0 mid 2nd.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Molina flies out to center. A 9 pitch inning. 0-0 mid 2nd.
17 pitches, 6 outs.

Raisor
08-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Boo birds are out for Mr. Neck Tattoo... Wish they'd stop that.

why?

Booing is great. I love it when other teams boo the Reds.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 02:27 PM
why?

Booing is great. I love it when other teams boo the Reds.

Just seems like whenever he gets boo'd, the ball leaves the park or finds a gap...

But, maybe its just me.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:29 PM
Ludwick strikes out swinging.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:29 PM
what the hell is Marty wearing

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:30 PM
That should be banned before and after Labor day

RedsfaninMT
08-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Just seems like whenever he gets boo'd, the ball leaves the park or finds a gap...

But, maybe its just me.

Definitely not just you. Booing seems to get him jacked up...then he jacks the ball. Would be interesting to see if fans remained silent when he batted if it would make a difference or not.

11larkin11
08-26-2012, 02:31 PM
That should be banned before and after Labor day

So he's good to wear it ON Labor Day?

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:31 PM
Bruce laughs at the shift.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:31 PM
Bruce singles to right.

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:32 PM
I really want the Reds to score but then in a way I don't because it means the Cards would just score in the next inning.

757690
08-26-2012, 02:33 PM
why?

Booing is great. I love it when other teams boo the Reds.

Which means Cards fans love it when Reds fans boo Molina. Why do something that makes Cards fans happy?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Frazier grounds into a 6-4-3 DP. 0-0 after 2.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Wainwright looks good too.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:37 PM
Leadoff double by Schumaker

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:38 PM
Homer gives up a double to Schumaker. Line shot in right center. Furcal now up.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:39 PM
Furcal flies out to center. Schumaker stays at 2nd.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Thom and Chris talking up the Bruce to CF idea.

Now Thom focusing on the defensive impact.

Chris says the impact over a short period is ok. Hurts more over the long haul.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Wainwright singles to left. 1st and 3rd.

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Definitely not just you. Booing seems to get him jacked up...then he jacks the ball. Would be interesting to see if fans remained silent when he batted if it would make a difference or not.What I'd like to see is laughing. Whenever he steps to the plate, the entire crowd should break out in uproarious laughter. Now that would probably have the effect we're looking for. :D

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Jeez, Wainwright with the best at-bat yet for STL.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Homer went full to pitcher and laid it in there.

Not good pitching there, gave in to the pitcher. Now a threat.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2012, 02:43 PM
Bailey threw Wainwright a fastball right down the middle.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:43 PM
Homer went full to pitcher and laid it in there.

Not good pitching there, gave in to the pitcher. Now a threat.
I really don't think Homer did anything wrong there. Just a good job by Wainwright.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:44 PM
I really don't think Homer did anything wrong there. Just a good job by Wainwright.

Homer did nothing wrong except giving the pitcher a fat pitch right down the middle.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Jay singles to center on an 0-2 pitch. 1-0 Cards.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Fastball right down the middle to Wainwright, followed by a very hittable 0-2 pitch to Jon Jay.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Homer did nothing wrong except giving the pitcher a fat pitch right down the middle.
Other option was walking him. I kinda prefer challenging the pitcher to hit the fastball in that position.

Chip R
08-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Homer's having problems getting his breaking stuff over.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Carpenter singles to right. Danger here. Bases loaded for Holliday

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:48 PM
so many singles

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Bailey looks bad today. And Wainwright looks good.

I don't see a good result for this one.

OesterPoster
08-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Hanigan either had his catching mask painted, or he finally has a new one. That old one had a huge paint chip right on the top/front.

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
So he's good to wear it ON Labor Day?

Only after sundown!

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
Other option was walking him. I kinda prefer challenging the pitcher to hit the fastball in that position.

Completely disagree. And Homer just did it again to Carpenter.

When the count goes full you make a good pitch. Outside corner. A bit high.

You don't lay it down the middle fearing the walk.

If you walk him, you walk him.

Throwing a fastball right down Broadway on a full count isn't challenging the pitcher. It's capitulating for fear of the walk. And he did it again to Carpenter at 3-2 this inning.

Chip R
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
They are gonna kill him if he keeps throwing fastballs.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
damnit

Tadasimha
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
Bailey looks bad today. And Wainwright looks good.

I don't see a good result for this one.

Wow - first spot of trouble after two very good innings to start and suddenly the Reds are doomed with Homer pitching.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Holliday singles to left. 3-0 Cards.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Wow - first spot of trouble after two very good innings to start and suddenly the Reds are doomed with Homer pitching.

Unfortunately, they are.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Can't afford to get much further behind with Wainwright pitching

OesterPoster
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Homer getting BABIP'd to death this inning.

REDSEER
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
So many ground balls finding holes this inning. That's two weakly hit balls and one hit hard the last three batters.

LoganBuck
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Bad luck at play here.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Completely disagree. And Homer just did it again to Carpenter.

When the count goes full you make a good pitch. Outside corner. A bit high.

You don't lay it down the middle fearing the walk.

If you walk him, you walk him.

Throwing a fastball right down Broadway on a full count isn't challenging the pitcher. It's capitulating for fear of the walk. And he did it again to Carpenter at 3-2 this inning.
I agree about Carpenter and other hitters. But Wainwright had a good eye. And he's still 'just' a pitcher. Make him hit it.


I just don't subscribe to the theory you seem to have that every hit given up by a Reds pitcher shouldn't have happened.

Tadasimha
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Unfortunately, they are.

Guess I'll quit watching then

Brutus
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
So many ground balls finding holes this inning. That's two weakly hit balls and one hit hard the last three batters.

While that's true, he's also not fooling anyone with his pitches.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Let's look at what has happened this inning: a really hard hit double, followed by 4 ground balls that found their way through.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Wow - first spot of trouble after two very good innings to start and suddenly the Reds are doomed with Homer pitching.

I call'em like I see'em. Let's see if I continue to be right. Let's hope not.

Hollcat
08-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Bailey's terrible at home

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Seems like too many fastballs to me.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2012, 02:52 PM
I don't want Homer Bailey anywhere near the playoff rotation.

Red in Chicago
08-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Is it really bad luck when the pitches are right down the middle?

LoganBuck
08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Homer has gotten squeezed a few times this inning.

OesterPoster
08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
I call'em like I see'em. Let's see if I continue to be right. Let's hope not.

Why bother watching then?

Chip R
08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
There's a nice breaking pitch.

mth123
08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Big K there

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Craig strikes out swinging. 3 Ks for Bailey.

REDSEER
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
His split/change up is working quite well today. He had Carpenter out in front earlier and just struck out Craig on it.

RBA
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Homer = FeS2

OesterPoster
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
I don't want Homer Bailey anywhere near the playoff rotation.

I think you can use him as a tandem starter with Arroyo. Start one of the two, and first sign of trouble, go to the other.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Why bother watching then?

Geez. I make a statement that came true and now you're badgering me?

I just don't think Homer has it today.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Finally one hit at somebody.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Beltran grounds into a force out at short. 3-0 Cards mid 3rd.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Homer getting BABIP'd to death this inning.

I plan to start a thread soon on how BABIP has become the cop out for bad pitching. This is an example.

BABIP stands for batting average on balls in play. Homer allowed a high BABIP that inning because he grooved his average fastball right down Broadway.

Yes, if he was real lucky, those shots might have been hit right at somebody and turned into outs.

But generally throwing meatballs will result in a high BABIP.

BCubb2003
08-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Finally one hit at somebody.

It's Chris Speier's fault.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Rolen pops out to 2nd.

mth123
08-26-2012, 02:58 PM
I think its in the middle here. Wainwrights hit was groved. Jay looked like a loss in concentration after he should have been out on the bunt. He made a decent pitch to Carpenter who did a good job to pull it through the hole at 2B. Homer defeinitely grooved a few there.

LoganBuck
08-26-2012, 02:58 PM
I plan to start a thread soon on how BABIP has become the cop out for bad pitching. This is an example.

BABIP stands for batting average on balls in play. Homer allowed a high BABIP that inning because he grooved his average fastball right down Broadway.

Yes, if he was real lucky, those shots might have been hit right at somebody and turned into outs.

But generally throwing meatballs will result in a high BABIP.

I only consider the balls that Holliday and Wainwright hit to be legit hits. The rest were bad luck.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 02:58 PM
Homer has gotten squeezed a few times this inning.

You could say that about any pitcher pitching in any game of the season. His command is awful. Getting squeezed is probably the smallest of reasons for his struggles that inning.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 02:59 PM
Hanigan grounds out to 2nd.

LoganBuck
08-26-2012, 03:00 PM
You could say that about any pitcher pitching in any game of the season. His command is awful. Getting squeezed is probably the smallest of reasons for his struggles that inning.

True, but Homer has such a thin margin. If he doesn't get the corners he is in trouble.

Tadasimha
08-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Homer = FeS2

Okay, I give up - what's FeS2?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Bailey grounds out to short. 3-0 Cards after 3.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:01 PM
I plan to start a thread soon on how BABIP has become the cop out for bad pitching. This is an example.

BABIP stands for batting average on balls in play. Homer allowed a high BABIP that inning because he grooved his average fastball right down Broadway.

Yes, if he was real lucky, those shots might have been hit right at somebody and turned into outs.

But generally throwing meatballs will result in a high BABIP.

I agree that BABIP is a rough tool. There is a lot to be said for how hard a ball is hit. Obviously, the harder a ground ball is hit, the more likely it is to get through the infield.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:02 PM
I only consider the balls that Holliday and Wainwright hit to be legit hits. The rest were bad luck.

And the lead off double to Schumaker...

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:02 PM
True, but Homer has such a thin margin. If he doesn't get the corners he is in trouble.

I agree with you completely, but that says more about him than it does the umpire :)

At this level, you've got to be able to overcome tight strike zones and not being able to hit spots. If you don't, that's what separates the really good pitchers from the middling ones.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 03:03 PM
I plan to start a thread soon on how BABIP has become the cop out for bad pitching. This is an example.

BABIP stands for batting average on balls in play. Homer allowed a high BABIP that inning because he grooved his average fastball right down Broadway.

Yes, if he was real lucky, those shots might have been hit right at somebody and turned into outs.

But generally throwing meatballs will result in a high BABIP.

Definitely.

BABIP is a luck stat. Sometimes the pitcher is lucky and sometimes the hitter is. It doesn't tell you if the pitcher grooved a fastball.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Molina flies out to right on the first pitch

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:04 PM
For the record, Reds didn't get a run off of Wainwright until the 5th inning the last time they played him and they ended up beating him. As long as the Cards don't take a huge lead, this game is far from over.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Goodness, if i'm reading this right, people are taking BABIP to such an extreme that half the hits in an inning are brushed off as not legitimate hits?

They're all legitimate hits. They all allowed runners to reach base safely. And I am stunned that now pitch location doesn't have anything to do with why guys might be able to hit the ball hard enough to make it through holes.

RBA
08-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Okay, I give up - what's FeS2?

FeS2 = iron pyrite

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Schumaker grounds out to short.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:06 PM
Furcal grounds out to short. 3-0 Cards mid 4th.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:07 PM
That inning, one fly out and two ground outs. However, none of the grounders was hit very well.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:07 PM
Goodness, if i'm reading this right, people are taking BABIP to such an extreme that half the hits in an inning are brushed off as not legitimate hits?

They're all legitimate hits. They all allowed runners to reach base safely. And I am stunned that now pitch location doesn't have anything to do with why guys might be able to hit the ball hard enough to make it through holes.

Just curiiously, can you get pregnant from legitimate hits?

Sorry, wrong forum ;)

RBA
08-26-2012, 03:07 PM
If you are okay with bad pizza. Code MLB100 gives you 50percent off you order today at PapaJohns.com. I thought some of you might want some pizza with the game thread.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:08 PM
If you are okay with bad pizza. Code MLB100 gives you 50percent off you order today at PapaJohns.com. I thought some of you might want some pizza with the game thread.

Speaking of which, what's that free pizza and ice cream deal that Welsh and the Cowboy talk about during the games?

RBA
08-26-2012, 03:09 PM
Speaking of which, what's that free pizza and ice cream deal that Welsh and the Cowboy talk about during the games?

It was first come, first serve and Cowboy got there first.

Chip R
08-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Speaking of which, what's that free pizza and ice cream deal that Welsh and the Cowboy talk about during the games?

If the Reds strike out 10 batters you can get a free small (4?) topping pizza from LaRosas and a free small scoop of ice cream from UDF.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Cozart grounds out to short.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:11 PM
If the Reds strike out 10 batters you can get a free small (4?) topping pizza from LaRosas and a free small scoop of ice cream from UDF.

Everyone? Even me watching the game at home on TV? I want free pizza and ice cream.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 03:11 PM
Everyone? Even me watching the game at home on TV? I want free pizza and ice cream.

I think you need a ticket stub from the game.....

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm not optimistic about putting three or more runs on Waino, but I will say in an attempt to be optimistic is that the Reds aren't having too much of an issue making contact on him thus far. So maybe some runs are forthcoming.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:13 PM
I think you need a ticket stub from the game.....

Then I want Chapman in the rotation. I'll go to every game he starts. Yum!

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:13 PM
Heisey pops out.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm not optimistic about putting three or more runs on Waino, but I will say in an attempt to be optimistic is that the Reds aren't having too much of an issue making contact on him thus far. So maybe some runs are forthcoming.

He's just being BABIP lucky ;)

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Thom says a ball hasn't been hit hard since the 2nd off Wainwright. I guess Homer's didn't count.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:16 PM
Thom says a ball hasn't been hit hard since the 2nd off Wainwright. I guess Homer's didn't count.

The hits off Homer don't count as "legitimate" so why should his ball be counted :)

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:16 PM
Brewers and Pirates scoreless mid-second.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 03:16 PM
I hope the Reds hitters get BABIP lucky next inning. :eek:

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:16 PM
Gameday says after 45 pitches Wainwright becomes more hittable.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Gameday says after 45 pitches Wainwright becomes more hittable.

I turned the scout off a long time ago after I realize they used that stat for almost every pitcher lol

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Gameday says after 45 pitches Wainwright becomes more hittable.

I heard that about Latos too.

Might be right.

VR
08-26-2012, 03:20 PM
Gameday says after 45 pitches Wainwright becomes more hittable.

You mean the balls hit off him find luckier hops for the offense. ;)

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:20 PM
I turned the scout off a long time ago after I realize they used that stat for almost every pitcher lol
Haha I know it's probably typical stuff, but I'm trying to stay positive. :thumbup:

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Haha I know it's probably typical stuff, but I'm trying to stay positive. :thumbup:

What does it say about Homer?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Wainwright fouls out to 1st.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Jay lines out to left. 2 outs.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Liner to Ludwick. Two outs. No BABIP.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:24 PM
Wainright with 52 pitches. Homer with 68 but a half inning ahead.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:24 PM
What does it say about Homer?

"After 5 pitches, Homer sucks."

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:25 PM
Carpenter lines a single to right

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:25 PM
Darn the luck!

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:25 PM
If you are interested in the BABIP stuff, good article on the Baseball Prosectus site titled "How Does Quality of Contact Relate to BABIP? (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15562)". (Subscription req.)

This article is about using batting F/X to measure hit speed, and not surprisingly finds that harder hit ground balls are base hits more often than slower hit ones.

So, two pitchers can indeed have similar numbers of balls hit in play, and have quite different results in terms of how hard those balls are hit.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:25 PM
Was hoping Homer could have a clean inning. I'd consider a quality start by Homer today, 6 innings 3 runs, against this offense a successful start.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 03:26 PM
Cardinals pitching is looking better and better. And that lineup is scary statistically.

I was hoping they wouldn't get a Wild Card spot, but now I"m a little worried.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:27 PM
If you are interested in the BABIP stuff, good article on the Baseball Prosectus site titled "How Does Quality of Contact Relate to BABIP? (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15562)". (Subscription req.)

This article is about using batting F/X to measure hit speed, and not surprisingly finds that harder hit ground balls are base hits more often than slower hit ones.

So, two pitchers can indeed have similar numbers of balls hit in play, and have quite different results in terms of how hard those balls are hit.

I did read that once, and I appreciate you linking it as I wanted to save it anyhow.

But what amuses me is that what they found should have been common sense to begin with. It's the same reason why line drives fall into the field of play for hits more than grounders and why grounders fall more than fly balls. So one should expect better contact is going to equal more hits, even comparing grounders to other grounders.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Nice!

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Homer's stuff seems good enough to get guys out on balls. Since the three runs, a number of hitters have swung and missed or made weak contact on pitches out of the zone.

His problem this game is all those pitches down the middle.

Great throw by Hanigan.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Hanigan nails the runner at 2nd.

reds44
08-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Wainwright looking pretty good considering he just throws junk up there.

:)

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 03:29 PM
FeS2 = iron pyriteaka Fool's Gold. For the record, I disagree. I think Homer is Silver or maybe Bronze. He's a solid middle of the rotation pitcher...some days he can shut teams down and other days he gets clobbered, but generally he keeps a good offensive team in the game. :dunno: He's doing a good job of keeping the ball down today, but everything is finding a hole. I didn't really see any meatballs down the middle except the pitch to Wainright. Meatballs generally leave the park. That's my http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/2c.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:29 PM
I did read that once, and I appreciate you linking it as I wanted to save it anyhow.

But what amuses me is that what they found should have been common sense to begin with. It's the same reason why line drives fall into the field of play for hits more than grounders and why grounders fall more than fly balls. So one should expect better contact is going to equal more hits, even comparing grounders to other grounders.

I agree that it largely confirms common sense. But that is important to note this fact (that speed of batted balls is really important) when we start to over-emphasize how 'lucky' the other team is in having those grounders get through the infield. It isn't 'luck' when they are hit really hard.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Ludwick flies out to the wall in left.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Ludwick didn't miss that by much at all.

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Oh.... Brother!

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:32 PM
I did read that once, and I appreciate you linking it as I wanted to save it anyhow.

But what amuses me is that what they found should have been common sense to begin with. It's the same reason why line drives fall into the field of play for hits more than grounders and why grounders fall more than fly balls. So one should expect better contact is going to equal more hits, even comparing grounders to other grounders.

It's always driven me nuts how people view BABIP and luck as synonymous.

Yes, luck certainly can play a role when the same or similar pitchers have variations in results with no obvious difference in their pitching.

But BABIP and luck are not equivalent. I look forward to reading that article.

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 03:33 PM
Hanigan nails the runner at 2nd.Bailey kept him close with a couple of pickoff attempts and then he threw a fastball up and away...Hanny was standing up when he caught it and made a perfect throw. Nice teamwork! :clap:

RedsMan3203
08-26-2012, 03:33 PM
Reds hitters need to step out of the box a bit more today... Waino is on a mission... time to start breaking up the routine....

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:35 PM
Frazier is hit by the pitch

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:35 PM
Frazier plunked

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Frazier is hit by the pitch

Payback for hitting Freese on Friday?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Rolen grounds into a FC. 3-0 Cards after 5.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Not a great at-bat by Scotty.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:37 PM
It's always driven me nuts how people view BABIP and luck as synonymous.

Yes, luck certainly can play a role when the same or similar pitchers have variations in results with no obvious difference in their pitching.

But BABIP and luck are not equivalent. I look forward to reading that article.

What's worse is that we know now that xBABIP better correlates to actual BABIP than the standard .300 expectation. And that is influenced by hit type.

I think BABIP has become a religion for some, but the truth is we're past that being a hard-and-fast rule like it was first suspected several years ago when it started gaining popularity. It's still somewhat telling when you have a large variance, but taking it to the extreme and applying it during the course of a game with no consideration of any other circumstances is doing the stat a disservice.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:38 PM
Payback for hitting Freese on Friday?

I was just thinking that too. The timing gives some credence to it, given there were two outs and no one on base. If you're going to do it, that's the best time to do so.

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 03:38 PM
Payback for hitting Freese on Friday?Nah, it was just up and in and Todd's unusual stance makes it hard for him to get out of the way...he got it on the meat of his shoulder.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Feel like I've seen Heisey do that far too many times this year.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Wow. Heisey makes a diving attempt and turns what should have been a single to a triple

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:40 PM
Like I said once before, when Stubbs plays a lot I wish for Heisey.

And when Heisey plays I wish for Stubbs.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:41 PM
Like I said once before, when Stubbs plays a lot I wish for Heisey.

And when Heisey plays I wish for Stubbs.
Neither should be in the conversation for starting CF.

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 03:41 PM
Wow. Heisey makes a diving attempt and turns what should have been a single to a tripleHe must be a much faster guy in his own mind. :laugh:

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:41 PM
welp, so much for the quality start.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:42 PM
I think this game may be over. Craig homers to the upper deck on a 2 strike pitch

WebScorpion
08-26-2012, 03:42 PM
Like I said once before, when Stubbs plays a lot I wish for Heisey.

And when Heisey plays I wish for Stubbs.I usually wish I had Stubbs in the field and Heisey at the plate.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:42 PM
BABIP unl... oh wait.

He has been HR/FB unlucky this game. Yes, that's it.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:43 PM
I usually wish I had Stubbs in the field and Heisey at the plate.

I can see wishing for Stubbs in the field . . . .

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 03:43 PM
I think this game may be over. Craig homers to the upper deck on a 2 strike pitch


Well at least the HR makes the Heisey dive a moot point. Man on third or first would both score on the Craig HR...

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:43 PM
Beltran flies out to the track in left.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:43 PM
I don't get this Bailey defending/bashing. I just want the Reds to win.

Cedric
08-26-2012, 03:44 PM
If you can't locate your fastball you aren't a good pitcher. Homer isn't able to locate at all.

757690
08-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Actually, I have lot of stuff I need to do today, now I have time. Thanks Homer ;)

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-26-2012, 03:44 PM
If Homer Bailey can't pitch at GABP - and his home/road splits bear that out - he's really not going to be useful to this team going forward. I'd really try to move him this offseason. Like Aaron Harang, GABP has clearly got him beat.

Vottomatic
08-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Thom trying to keep viewers watching. LOL.

I'm done. Going to go do some housework. I hope I check in later and they miraculously pull it out. Not looking good though.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:46 PM
Molina grounds out to 1st.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't get this Bailey defending/bashing. I just want the Reds to win.

Homer was the pitcher today. He's allowed five runs against a very tough pitcher for the other team.

I think those are the reasons why people are discussing him. Glad you want the Reds to win, so do I.

CTA513
08-26-2012, 03:47 PM
It seems like nearly every Cardinals hitter uses the whole field.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:47 PM
Schumaker singles to left.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:47 PM
Homer was the pitcher today. He's allowed five runs against a very tough pitcher for the other team.

I think those are the reasons why people are discussing him. Glad you want the Reds to win, so do I.
What I mean is that some posters, whom I really do respect, seem to take pleasure in seeing Homer fail. Homer is obviously not frontline, but he's obviously not garbage either. All of the arguments either way just seem silly.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:47 PM
Schumaker singles to left.

Is Schumaker challenging Pete Rose for the base hit title? After today, he might be.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:49 PM
Fucal pops out to short. 5-0 Cards mid 6th.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:50 PM
What I mean is that some posters, whom I really do respect, seem to take pleasure in seeing Homer fail. Homer is obviously not frontline, but he's obviously not garbage either. All of the arguments either way just seem silly.

For the record, on a personal level, most of my discussion on Homer this game really isn't directed toward Homer as much as the whole BABIP-lucky/unlucky narrative is a pet peeve of mine. I do think flat out that Homer simply pitched poorly today, but most of my responses had more to do with thinking people take the BABIP defense way too far than wanting to go on the aggressive WRT Homer's pitching.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:51 PM
Hanigan singles to right.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:52 PM
Valdez hitting for Homer

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 03:53 PM
Valdez hitting for Homer
Busting out the big guns.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Valdez singles to right. 1st and 2nd.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 03:55 PM
Look daddy, teacher says: every time Valdez gets a hit, an angel gets his wings.

Gizmo
08-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Gotta start chipping away here.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:56 PM
FC at 2nd . 1st and 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 03:57 PM
Heisey lines a single to left. 5-1 Cards. 1st and 2nd.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 03:58 PM
What I mean is that some posters, whom I really do respect, seem to take pleasure in seeing Homer fail. Homer is obviously not frontline, but he's obviously not garbage either. All of the arguments either way just seem silly.

Thing is, I think people expected Homer to be "frontline" and aren't satisfied with "not garbage."

I doubt many of us take pleasure in this. I didn't turn this game on today to see Homer groove pitches and go down 5-0.

Degenerate39
08-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Would love to see a home run here

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:00 PM
Would love to see a home run here

Carlos Gomez just hit one to put Milwaukee up over the Pirates 3-0.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:00 PM
Phillips grounds into a 4-6 FC. 2 outs.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:00 PM
If the Reds can come up with a couple more runs here, I'd break out the heavy artillery in assuring the Reds stay within striking distance (i.e. deploy Marshall/Chapman).

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:02 PM
The lefty with an unpronouncable name is warming up possibly to face Bruce if Ludwick gets on.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Ludwick singles to right center. 5-2 Cards. 1st and 3rd.

REDSEER
08-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Here we go, Jay! This is who we want up right now!

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Darn home run to Craig last inning.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:04 PM
That is it for Wainwright.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:04 PM
The lefty with an unpronouncable name is warming up possibly to face Bruce if Ludwick gets on.

Cards fans call him scrabble lol

I think it's pronounced zepinski.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Rzepcynski in to pitch

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Well, they got the 2-run homer back. Now Bruce has a chance to tie this baby up or at least get them a little closer.

Degenerate39
08-26-2012, 04:06 PM
I have a feeling Bruce will strike out swinging. God I hope I'm wrong

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:07 PM
I have a feeling Bruce will strike out swinging. God I hope I'm wrong

Still three innings to go and Wainright is out of the game. So there is hope either way.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:08 PM
3-0 count

REDSEER
08-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Not sure they really want much to do with Jay here.

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Not sure they really want much to do with Jay here.

They didn't bring in the lefty for one batter to walk Jay.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:09 PM
Bruce lines out to left. 5-2 Cards after 6.

Tom Servo
08-26-2012, 04:09 PM
damnit

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:09 PM
Reds pitcher?

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Washington is in danger of being swept by the Phillies, down 3-0 in the 6th.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Reds pitcher?

Marshall

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Washington is in danger of being swept by the Phillies, down 3-0 in the 6th.

Hopefully they get it together before their 4 game series with the Cards next weekend

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Almost a spectacular play by Phillips but an infield hit

Kc61
08-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Hopefully they get it together before their 4 game series with the Cards next weekend

That series is in DC. This was in Philly.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:15 PM
Jay grounds out to 3rd. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:17 PM
Carpenter strikes out swinging.

kaldaniels
08-26-2012, 04:18 PM
What is this Red Reporter beef?

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Brewers up 4-0 on the Pirates now.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:19 PM
What is this Red Reporter beef?

What do you mean?

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Holliday doubles to left center. 6-2 Cards.

Degenerate39
08-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Fantastic

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:20 PM
What do you mean?

Thom and Chris were talking about it. Thom said something he said recently really angered someone at Reds Reporter.

Brutus
08-26-2012, 04:20 PM
Thom and Chris were talking about it. Thom said something he said recently really angered someone at Reds Reporter.

Oh I missed that. I had the sound down so didn't hear what they were talking about.

nate
08-26-2012, 04:21 PM
Oh I missed that. I had the sound down so didn't hear what they were talking about.

Wise.

mbgrayson
08-26-2012, 04:21 PM
Marty asking why Dusty left Marshall in to face Holiday....

Reds Fanatic
08-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Ugh. Craig singles to right. 7-2 Cards.