8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

[Reds Fanatic]

Reds lineup:

Zack Cozart 6
Chris Heisey 8
Brandon Phillips 4
Ryan Ludwick 7
Jay Bruce 9
Todd Frazier 3
Scott Rolen 5
Dioner Navarro 2
Mike Leake 1

[smith288]

Heisey! He'll put the ball in play

[oneupper]

I'm surprised Dusty benched Stubbs in Houston.

[cumberlandreds]

Looking like Heisey is going to be a regular. Four straight starts according to Fay.

[cumberlandreds]

Here's the Astros lineup:

1. Jose Altuve (R) 2B

2. Tyler Greene (R) SS

3. Brett Wallace (L) 1B

4. Jason Castro (L) C

5. Jimmy Paredes (S) RF

6. Fernando Martinez (L) LF

7. Matt Dominguez (R) 3B

8. Brandon Barnes (R) CF

9. Fernando Abad (L) P

[oneupper]

Looking like Heisey is going to be a regular. Four straight starts according to Fay.

Three according to yahoo sports. Missed Monday vs. D'backs.

Four of Five, if you will.

[Brutus]

I think given Dusty's emphasis on sentimental value, as mentioned Stubbs not starting in Houston is kind of telling. This may mean Heisey is the incumbent going forward unless he slumps or Stubbs wins the job back.

[Kc61]

I think given Dusty's emphasis on sentimental value, as mentioned Stubbs not starting in Houston is kind of telling. This may mean Heisey is the incumbent going forward unless he slumps or Stubbs wins the job back.

Some of us said earlier this season that Stubbs had way too many PAs last year. The result was pretty disastrous. It took a long time, but now at least Dusty is spotting his starts, which makes sense. Why they chose a lefty game in Houston to sit him is another story.

Heisey's two homer game probably helped him get the start tonight. Play the hot hand.

Cards with Wainright getting pummeled again in DC, 5-0.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cozart grounds out to 3rd.

[Tadasimha]

Big crowd

;)

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pops out to the pitcher.

[Kc61]

Cards now trail 6-0. For tonight, it's time to focus on the Reds and Pittsburgh-Milwaukee.

[Reds Fanatic]

Big crowd

;)

Yes it is kind of hard to draw a crowd when you are 40-91 and no one knows who half the lineup is.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips singles to center.

[Tom Servo]

BP with the single prevents a clean inning, which would have been Abad start for the Reds.

[Tom Servo]

That was Abad idea by Ludwick.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick fouls out to 1st. 0-0 mid 1st.

[Tadasimha]

BP with the single prevents a clean inning, which would have been Abad start for the Reds.


That was Abad idea by Ludwick.

boo

[cincrazy]

Part of me wants to see the Reds lose tonight just so I can get a giggle out of the "Woe the sky is falling we lost to the Astros!" crowd lol.

[Brutus]

Wainwright sure isn't fooling anyone tonight. He's still in the game with 85 pitches in 2 2/3 innings. It's 6-0 right now with the bases loaded. He's given up a pair of walks and 9 hits.

[Reds Fanatic]

Altuve grounds out to 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Greene doubles off the wall in right.

[Tadasimha]

Greene doubles off the wall in right.

He's got a nice turn of speed.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wainwright sure isn't fooling anyone tonight. He's still in the game with 85 pitches in 2 2/3 innings. It's 6-0 right now with the bases loaded. He's given up a pair of walks and 9 hits.

Wainright did not even make it to 4th tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wallace walks.

[Tom Servo]

You don't need to pitch around any Astros hitters, Mike.

[Brutus]

You don't need to pitch around any Astros hitters, Mike.

With a base open, I'd pitch around Wallace with one out. No reason to give him anything to hit as he's their most competent hitter.

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro ground out to 1st. Runners to 2nd and 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Paredes strikes out swinging. 0-0 after 1.

[Tom Servo]

Nice, Leake made Paredes look silly.

[Kc61]

Pirates trail early to Brew Crew 2-0.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce pops out to 2nd.

[Tom Servo]

Can't stop Frazier.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier lines a single to center.

[Brutus]

The Cards' RBI-less streak has now reached 34 innings.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cards had 2 on with no outs and don't score anything.

[Brutus]

Brewers now up 4-0 on Pittsburgh.

[Kc61]

Four zip Brewers over Pirates. Reds have a chance to add to their lead tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brewers now up 4-0 on a Hart homer run.

[Tadasimha]

Cards had 2 on with no outs and don't score anything.

So it's not just the Reds that do that! :lol:

[Reds Fanatic]

It is amazing what has happened to the Cards offense over the last 4 nights. There was no hint of this coming last weekend.

Rolen grounds into a DP. 0-0 mid 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Martinez grounds out to Leake.

[Tom Servo]

Didn't think Bruce was gonna get to that at first :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Dominguez lines out to right.

[alloverjr]

Nice running catch by the CF...

[Reds Fanatic]

Pirates starter Jeff Karstens leaves apparently with an injury in the 1st.

[Tadasimha]

Didn't think Bruce was gonna get to that at first :)

Neither did I - he made a heck of a catch running that one down.

[Reds Fanatic]

Barnes singles to right.

[Brutus]

Pirates starter Jeff Karstens leaves apparently with an injury in the 1st.

Maybe they should return a call to Bedard lol

[Reds Fanatic]

Abad with an infield hit. 1st adn 2nd.

[Tadasimha]

Dang - I didn't realize it on the mound but Abad is a big fella!

[Tom Servo]

Leake should have been out of the inning already. Hopefully he leaves the runners here.


haha that was easy.

[Reds Fanatic]

Altuve grounds into a 6-4 FC. 0-0 after 2.

[backbencher]

It is amazing what has happened to the Cards offense over the last 4 nights. There was no hint of this coming last weekend.


One might theorize that the Cards were would tightly coming into Cincinnti, believing that it was a must-sweep series.

Win or lose, that kind of pressure can lead into a letdown afterwards.

Not necessarily a SABR-endorsed theory on baseball, but it happens all the time in other sports like college football.

[Tadasimha]

Leake should have been out of the inning already. Hopefully he leaves the runners here.


haha that was easy.

Altuve got anxious

[Brutus]

Once Barnes got a hit, I'm actually glad Abad got one too. I'd rather get Altuve out of the way than him leading off an inning. He's the guy I most respect in this lineup.

[Brutus]

Gio loses his no-no in the 5th to Yadi on a leadoff double.

[Tadasimha]

Gio loses his no-no in the 5th to Yadi on a leadoff double.

Gotta give Molina credit for being tough - didn't think he'd be back this soon!

Still hate the guy, though!

[Brutus]

Gotta give Molina credit for being tough - didn't think he'd be back this soon!

Still hate the guy, though!

Probably the best catcher in the majors this year, sans Buster Posey. Might even be a better overall catcher than Posey. Nonetheless, I too hate him with the fury of a thousand suns.

[Reds Fanatic]

Navarro doubles to left center.

[Brutus]

Good to see Navarro coming up with some big hits the last few days.

[Brutus]

The Cards waste Molina's leadoff double, now up to 35 innings without an RBI lol

[Reds Fanatic]

Good bunt by Leake moves Navarro to 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

Good to see Navarro coming up with some big hits the last few days.
He's a perfectly solid backup backstop, I think, despite some of the gnashing on teeth here.

[Brutus]

He's a perfectly solid backup backstop, I think, despite some of the gnashing on teeth here.

Yeah I didn't understand the issues with bringing him up instead of Mesoraco. Mez was simply not hitting and not even playing well behind the plate.

[Tom Servo]

Cozart! :jump:

[Reds Fanatic]

Cozart homer to left!! 2-0 Reds!

[Brutus]

That is a monkey off his back.

[Wonderful Monds]

Did the Astros straight up change their uniforms mid season?

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pops out to 1st.

[Tom Servo]

Did the Astros straight up change their uniforms mid season?
Nah those are still the alternates, though they have started wearing them more than a regular alternate.

[Reds Fanatic]

Did the Astros straight up change their uniforms mid season?

yes those do look a little different. Maybe someone thought the uniforms were the problem.

[Wonderful Monds]

Nah those are still the alternates, though they have started wearing them more than a regular alternate.

Seems like it. I was going to say if they did, they literally can't do anything right, not even merchandising.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips doubles down the left field line.

[Tom Servo]

DatDude2B

[Wonderful Monds]

In honor of this early lead, I present to you the Houston Astros Play of the Day:
http://deadspin.com/5939675/astros-player-suffers-the-most-astros-injury-ever

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick walks.

[Tom Servo]

Nice job by Ludwick to walk after starting 0-2.

[Reds Fanatic]

wild pitch moves the runners to 2nd and 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce walks. Bases loaded for Frazier.

[Tom Servo]

Abad inning for Houston.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier flies out to center. 2-0 Reds mid 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

Sounded good off the bat, but right at em.

[Tadasimha]

Sounded good off the bat, but right at em.

A little patience might have paid off there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Greene strikes out swinging. 2 Ks for Leake.

[Reds Fanatic]

Now 8-0 Nationals in the 5th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wallace strikes out swinging. 3 Ks.

[Kc61]

Now 8-0 Nationals in the 5th.

Cards run differential is experiencing a correction in Washington, DC.

Nice pitch by Leake for the K. Two outs.

[Tadasimha]

Wallace strikes out swinging. 3 Ks.

Wicked pitch

[Tadasimha]

LOL

That little red haired girl was awesomely excited to get that ball.

[Tom Servo]

Nice hustle by Castro on the error.

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro doubles to right center and goes to 3rd on an error by Bruce.

[Reds Fanatic]

Good news coming from all over tonight. Now 5-0 Brewers in the 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Paredes walks. 1st and 3rd.

[Brutus]

Cards had 1st & 3rd with no outs and don't get in a run. Their RBI-less streak is now at 36 innings.

[Tom Servo]

Navarro nails the runner at 2nd. Nice.

[Reds Fanatic]

Navarro nails the runner at 2nd. 2-0 Reds after 3.

[Tadasimha]

Gunned 'im!

Nice!

[Brutus]

I can't tell if Leake just isn't sharp tonight or if he's selectively picking his battles very carefully. Either way, it's working thus far, though it hasn't been pretty.

[mbgrayson]

Leake at 59 pitches after 3 innings.
Abad at 56 pitches.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen check swing ground out to the pitcher.

[edabbs44]

Interesting stat, Bruce now has 6 errors. He had 7 combined in the last 2 years, 9 in the last 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Navarro grounds out to short. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Leake flies out to center. 2-0 Reds mid 4th.

[Tadasimha]

Leake at 59 pitches after 3 innings.
Abad at 56 pitches.

Leake needs a nice quick inning like Abad just had.

[Brutus]

37 now for St. Loo

[Tadasimha]

Actual bat flying around inside Minutemaid Park

[Reds Fanatic]

Martinez with a long homer to right. 2-1 Reds.

[Tadasimha]

Boom!

Upper decker

[Tom Servo]

Yeesh

[Reds Fanatic]

Back to back homers. Tie game 2-2.

[Gizmo]

Leake is this year's Arroyo

[Reds Fanatic]

First ML home run for Dominguez.

[Brutus]

I don't think that's what Tom had in mind when he said Leake needed a quick inning.

[Tom Servo]

I'd get Simon warm. Leake has been walking a tightrope all night.

[Tom Servo]

Nice recovery by Leake there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Barnes grounds out.
Abad strikes out.
Altuve grounds out. 2-2 after 4.

[Brutus]

I'd get Simon warm. Leake has been walking a tightrope all night.

Leake bounces back by saying, "not so fast, my friend."

[Tom Servo]

Leake bounces back by saying, "not so fast, my friend."
lol. I certainly don't mind being proven wrong. I do hope Dusty doesn't feel the need to have him pitch deep though, especially since we have reinforcements coming in the next day or two.

[Brutus]

O's up 4-0 in the 9th in the Bronx. They'd be just 2 games back of the Yanks if they win that game, despite a -40 run differential.

[Gizmo]

O's up 4-0 in the 9th in the Bronx. They'd be just 2 games back of the Yanks if they win that game, despite a -40 run differential.

Orioles say "if we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose big!". They win those tight ones every time it seems.

[Brutus]

lol. I certainly don't mind being proven wrong. I do hope Dusty doesn't feel the need to have him pitch deep though, especially since we have reinforcements coming in the next day or two.

True, although it should be noted the reinforcements are in the form of Logan Ondrusek and Todd Redmond, not exactly RZ favorites lol

[Reds Fanatic]

Cozart doubles off the top of the wall in left.

[Brutus]

Thought he had another.

[Tom Servo]

I feel like Cozart hits well in Houston, but perhaps more accurately he hits Houston pitching well.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey singles to right. 3-2 Reds! He goes to 2nd on an error.

[Tom Servo]

Stubbs who? :)

[Brutus]

Stubbs who? :)

Whomever he is, he might not be getting his job back.

[Wonderful Monds]

Whomever he is, he might not be getting his job back.

Honestly the real solution is probably to just play one or the other until they end up slumping too bad.

[Tadasimha]

Mickey Storey warming up for the 'Stros.

I always did like his Mike Hammer books! ;)

[Gizmo]

we just don't know how to do productive outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips stirkes out swinging.

[Wonderful Monds]

Talking about hitting the other way, I'll always feel like BP is what Felipe Lopez should've been. Hitting wise exclusively, of course.

I loved Felipe Lopez back in the day.

[Tom Servo]

Talking about hitting the other way, I'll always feel like BP is what Felipe Lopez should've been. Hitting wise exclusively, of course.

I loved Felipe Lopez back in the day.
Remember when he was benched on Felipe Lopez bobblehead night? :lol:

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick singles. 1st and 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

Bruce! :jump:

[Gizmo]

good bye!!!

[Wonderful Monds]

Remember when he was benched on Felipe Lopez bobblehead night? :lol:

I do now. :laugh:

JAY BRUCE

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce homers! 6-2 Reds!!!

[Brutus]

Gio shuts out the Cards again in the 8th. That's 38 innings without an earnie, for those of you following along.

[Wonderful Monds]

A ghost mysteriously tosses the HR ball back

[Tadasimha]

A ghost mysteriously tosses the HR ball back

Stupidest thing ever. I'd keep it - who cares which team hit the homer?

[HotCorner]

Anyone see the catcher's reaction?

[edabbs44]

Nice shot for Jay.

[Wonderful Monds]

I do now. :laugh:

JAY BRUCE

On that note did we not recently have a bobble head night for a player that got traded before it?

[Tadasimha]

On that note did we not recently have a bobble head night for a player that got traded before it?

Wasn't Gomes traded the day after his bobble head night?

[Wonderful Monds]

Stupidest thing ever. I'd keep it - who cares which team hit the homer?

Ghosts are very impartial beings. I mean, it had to be a ghost or other similar supernatural being, because there is no such thing as an Astros fan.

[Tom Servo]

Wasn't Gomes traded the day after his bobble head night?
Basically. Gomes bobblehead night was the 23rd of July last year, and he got traded on the 26th.

[Wonderful Monds]

Wasn't Gomes traded the day after his bobble head night?

I do believe that is who I am thinking of, though if my memory serves correct, he wasnt on the team at all on his night.

[Tom Servo]

Frazier fooled badly there.

[Wonderful Monds]

Basically. Gomes bobblehead night was the 23rd of July last year, and he got traded on the 26th.

Ah I guess not.

I think I'm thinking of the running joke that we couldn't trade him because he had a bobble head night coming up, lol.

[Gizmo]

Pirates are on the board at 5-1.

[Brutus]

Frazier fooled badly there.

It's not often he looks human.

[Brutus]

Orioles win!

Look out, Yankees.

[Gizmo]

10-0 Nats

[Reds Fanatic]

6 Ks for Leake. 6-2 Reds after 5.

[Brutus]

Six in a row retired by Leake after those homers. Very nice job bouncing back thus far.

And as mentioned. 2-run homer for Zimmerman giving the Nats a 10-0 lead.

Braves up 5-4 on Philly

[Tadasimha]

It's not often he looks human.

I've often thought he looks more Klingon!

[Reds Fanatic]

Wallace robs Navarro.

[Gizmo]

Nice grab.

[Reds Fanatic]

Leake strikes out swinging.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cozart strikes out swinging. 6-2 Reds mid 6th

[Reds Fanatic]

Paredes singles to right.

[Reds Fanatic]

Martinez grounds out to 1st. Runner to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pop out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Gizmo]

Cards lose, fall to percentages points lead over Pirates for now. No magic number movement yet.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cards lose, fall to percentages points lead over Pirates for now. No magic number movement yet.

Now 22 for the Cards and 23 for the Pirates

[Reds Fanatic]

Barnes grounds out to 3rd. 6-2 Reds after 6.

[Kc61]

Leake with 106 pitches.

[Tom Servo]

Leake with 106 pitches.
Gotta figure that's all for him.

[Brutus]

So the Cards have been outscored 32-1 over four games and have now gone 39 straight innings without an RBI. While that's not approaching an MLB record, I wouldn't think, that's an amazing drought.

[Brutus]

Hi-C with another hit.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey steals 2nd.

[Tom Servo]

Now Heisey's just sucking up to Dusty by stealing bases. :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips singles to right. 7-2 Reds!

[Tom Servo]

The 'Paredes in right field' experiment has been a failure so far for Houston, I'd say.

[Kc61]

Heisey still swings at almost everything, but he's making some contact now. Guy really busts it out there, would like to see him succeed. Just wish he was a little more patient at the plate.

[Brutus]

In honor of Drew Stubbs, I wonder what the Reds' record is when Chris Heisey scores a run?

[Brutus]

Heisey still swings at almost everything, but he's making some contact now. Guys really busts it out there, would like to see him succeed. Just wish he was a little more patient at the plate.

Patience doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes guys are more comfortable earlier in the count when they're more likely to see a good pitch to hit.

I like patience too, but I don't think it's fair for everyone to be expected to have the same style of hitting.

[Reds Fanatic]

They are talking about Votto possibly playing in Columbus with Louisville. The weather is supposed to be a mess the whole weekend. They would be better off just not playing him.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick strikes out looking.

Double switch.

[Gizmo]

The Pirates/Brewers game is so slow. Less runs and 2 innings behind as they're still in the top of 5th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce walks

[Tom Servo]

Ball 4 to Jay looked like strike 2, but whatevs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier grounds into a 1-6-3 DP. 7-2 Reds mid 7th.

[Kc61]

Patience doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes guys are more comfortable earlier in the count when they're more likely to see a good pitch to hit.

I like patience too, but I don't think it's fair for everyone to be expected to have the same style of hitting.

Patience, IMO, is not a style it's a fundamental for a hitter.

Some guys can get away with being impatient and swinging early and often. So far in his career, Heisey hasn't succeeded that way.

He's hot now, great, but learning to take a few pitches wouldn't kill him.

[Reds Fanatic]

LeCure in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Bogusevic pops out.

[Kc61]

LeCure in to pitch

Sam had some trouble after this injury but looked better last time. Maybe he's ready to get it going again.

Good spot for him here to throw a couple of innings. One out.

[Brutus]

Patience, IMO, is not a style it's a fundamental for a hitter.

Some guys can get away with being impatient and swinging early and often. So far in his career, Heisey hasn't.

He's hot now, great, but learning to take a few pitches wouldn't kill him.

It's not a fundamental. Fundamentals for hitting are balance, footwork, arm positioning, handling of the bat, etc.

Being selective or not is a style. It's not a fundamental. The BABIP is not statistically any different on the first pitch than it is the fifth pitch. If a guy feels more comfortable hitting on the first pitch, then they should do so provided they're not hacking at just anything.

There is no magical formula to success as a hitter. You can achieve it in a variety of ways.

[Tom Servo]

Nice work Sam.

[Reds Fanatic]

Greene strikes out. 1-2-3 inning. 7-2 Reds after 7.

[Kc61]

It's not a fundamental. Fundamentals for hitting are balance, footwork, arm positioning, handling of the bat, etc.

Being selective or not is a style. It's not a fundamental. The BABIP is not statistically any different on the first pitch than it is the fifth pitch. If a guy feels more comfortable hitting on the first pitch, then they should do so provided they're not hacking at just anything.

BABIP doesn't have much to do with it. BABIP only applies to balls hit in play.

When a batter is patient he can walk more. He can strike out less. He can perhaps homer more. None of those things are reflected in BABIP.

Patience, waiting for a pitch you can handle, is a fundamental part of hitting. Great ball strikers can succeed without it, but most mortals do better if they wait for a pitch they can handle.

[WVRedsFan]

LeCure with a good inning. As for Heisey, regardless of his hot streak, he is not the answer in CF. Maybe he will get us something good in return this winter, but he will likely swing at everything and go cold again. And remember we are playing Houston.

[Tom Servo]

LeCure with a good inning. As for Heisey, regardless of his hot streak, he is not the answer in CF. Maybe he will get us something good in return this winter, but he will likely swing at everything and go cold again. And remember we are playing Houston.
I don't know that anybody believes he's the 'answer' in CF, but at this point he's better than Stubbs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen walks.

[Tom Servo]

Nice night for Navarro.

[Reds Fanatic]

Navarro singles to center. 1st and 2nd

[Kc61]

Would like to see the Reds run up the score in this series. Not to insult the Astros.

Just to beat out the Cardinals in the pythag race.

[Tadasimha]

Would seriously consider letting LeCure hit and pitch another inning instead of Cairo

[Brutus]

BABIP doesn't have much to do with it. BABIP only applies to balls hit in play.

When a batter is patient he can walk more. He can strike out less. He can perhaps homer more. None of those things are reflected in BABIP.

Patience, waiting for a pitch you can handle, is a fundamental part of hitting. Great ball strikers can succeed without it, but most mortals do better if they wait for a pitch they can handle.

It's not a fundamental and frankly it doesn't even make sense.

The first pitch is sometimes the best pitch a hitter is going to see in an at-bat. Why should a hitter let that pitch go for the sake of being patient? When you're down 0-2 or 1-2, you're giving the pitcher an advantage because you now have to protect the plate and sometimes swing at a borderline ball because you can't afford to let close pitches go by. So why waste a fastball down the middle, if you happen to see it early in the count, for the possibility of having to hit defensively? You're not guaranteed a walk, so you shouldn't go up to the plate expecting to force one.

If a hitter gets a good pitch to hit early in the count, you should take it. That is not bad fundamentals, that is good hitting. Being patient for patience sake is not a good way to hit.

[Kc61]

Would seriously consider letting LeCure hit and pitch another inning instead of Cairo

Agree. No reason to take out Lecure here.

[WVRedsFan]

I don't know that anybody believes he's the 'answer' in CF, but at this point he's better than Stubbs.

True, but the enthusiasm for him is fool's gold. Stubbs is a black hole, but it's good to see some production there even if it is temporary.

[Tom Servo]

If a hitter gets a good pitch to hit early in the count, you should take it. That is not bad fundamentals, that is good hitting. Being patient for patience sake is not a good way to hit.
See: Stubbs, Drew.

[Brutus]

True, but the enthusiasm for him is fool's gold. Stubbs is a black hole, but it's good to see some production there even if it is temporary.

Who's enthusiastic? I'd call it more of relief than enthusiasm. He's a better option.

I used the analogy the other day that no one really considers chemo to be a great option, but it's a better option than doing nothing (not to call Stubbs a cancer, mind you).

[Tom Servo]

Brantley defending Cairo.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cairo singles to left. 8-2 Reds!

[Tadasimha]

Berry and Rolen lucky that throw was off line - Rolen would have been dead meat at the plate otherwise.

[Brutus]

See: Stubbs, Drew.

Agreed 100%. Even Dusty pointed that out the other day.

I think borderline pitches early in the count should be taken for strikes. But one should not let free pitches go by just to work the count.

[WVRedsFan]

Who's enthusiastic? I'd call it more of relief than enthusiasm. He's a better option.

I used the analogy the other day that no one really considers chemo to be a great option, but it's a better option than doing nothing (not to call Stubbs a cancer, mind you).

:):laugh:

[Reds Fanatic]

Cozart flies out to right

[Reds Fanatic]

Heiswy grounds into a 5-4 FC. 9-2 Reds.

[Tadasimha]

Putting it on them, now.

[CrackerJack]

In honor of this early lead, I present to you the Houston Astros Play of the Day:
http://deadspin.com/5939675/astros-player-suffers-the-most-astros-injury-ever

The slow-mo on that is worth a few chuckles, no doubt.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips flies out to right. 9-2 Reds mid 8th.

[Kc61]

It's not a fundamental and frankly it doesn't even make sense.

The first pitch is sometimes the best pitch a hitter is going to see in an at-bat. Why should a hitter let that pitch go for the sake of being patient? When you're down 0-2 or 1-2, you're giving the pitcher an advantage because you now have to protect the plate and sometimes swing at a borderline ball because you can't afford to let close pitches go by. So why waste a fastball down the middle, if you happen to see it early in the count, for the possibility of having to hit defensively? You're not guaranteed a walk, so you shouldn't go up to the plate expecting to force one.

If a hitter gets a good pitch to hit early in the count, you should take it. That is not bad fundamentals, that is good hitting. Being patient for patience sake is not a good way to hit.

Straw man. Nobody is saying anyone should be "patient for patience sake" or should let good, hittable pitches go by.

Patience means waiting for a pitch you can handle. If the first pitch is in the zone and something you can handle you swing at it. Of course.

But a hitter like Heisey swings at almost everything early in the count. He's overly aggressive. He may be "comfortable" doing so but it doesn't yield good results.

He would be far better off being patient. And if waiting for a good pitch isn't fundamental, I don't know what is.

[Reds Fanatic]

Simon in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Valdez in to play short. Cairo in at 1st. Stubbs in center. Heisey in left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wallace doubles to right. Just beat the throw from Bruce

[Tadasimha]

Bruce darn near got another one at 2nd

[WVRedsFan]

Up in the zone. That's lethal for Simon.

[oneupper]

But a hitter like Heisey swings at almost everything early in the count. He's overly aggressive. He may be "comfortable" doing so but it doesn't yield good results.

He would be far better off being patient. And if waiting for a good pitch isn't fundamental, I don't know what is.

Not that I don't agree Heisey could be more patient, but he is sporting a .750 OPS and that's about his career average. He can run, bunt, play the field (even if he jumps at balls that aren't there sometimes).
I'd say he has yielded good (but not great) results.

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro singles to right. 1st and 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Paredes sac fly to center. 9-3 Reds.

[Tom Servo]

Simon not missing any bats.

[Reds Fanatic]

Line out to short. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

wild pitch moves the runner to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dominguez grounds out to short. 9-3 Reds after8.

[Brutus]

Straw man. Nobody is saying anyone should be "patient for patience sake" or should let good, hittable pitches go by.

Patience means waiting for a pitch you can handle. If the first pitch is in the zone and something you can handle you swing at it. Of course.

But a hitter like Heisey swings at almost everything early in the count. He's overly aggressive. He may be "comfortable" doing so but it doesn't yield good results.

He would be far better off being patient. And if waiting for a good pitch isn't fundamental, I don't know what is.

What evidence do you have that Heisey isn't patient, as in he doesn't wait for good pitches? To me, all the criticism of him is just that he swings early in the count. I don't see any evidence that he routinely is swinging at bad pitches.

He would only be better off being patient if it guarantees him of seeing better pitches by waiting. If you're not going to see a better pitch deeper in the count, it doesn't benefit you much to wait unless the pitcher you're facing has poor control.

Sorry but this fundamental argument is the strawman. It's not a fundamental. It's a style. Not everyone is better off waiting on pitches. Not everyone can be like Albert Pujols or Joey Votto. Some guys are more comfortable swinging the bat when they see a good pitch early in the count. That's smart hitting. The trick is to know when to say when, not waiting for the sake of waiting.

By your logic, baseball players largely had bad fundamentals for the first century of baseball, as pitch counts per plate appearance only came up in the last 10 years or so. It used to be that you had a piece of timber in your hands because you went to the plate looking for the best pitches to use it with. You didn't go to the plate looking to add pitches to a pitch tally or hope to draw a walk instead of hitting.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs flies out to center.

[Gallen5862]

Thanks for the pbp.

[Kc61]

Not that I don't agree Heisey could be more patient, but he is sporting a .750 OPS and that's about his career average. He can run, bunt, play the field (even if he jumps at balls that aren't there sometimes).
I'd say he has yielded good (but not great) results.

I never said Heisey was bad. He has good power, he hustles, he makes more contact that his counterpart in CF. Chris is terrific in LF defensively, seems generally adequate in CF.

But Chris has walked 12 times all year. 284 official at bats.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce grounds out into the shift. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pirates have scored in the 7th. Now 5-2 Brewers top 7th.

[Gizmo]

Pirates add one in the 7th, so now it's 5-2 Brewers at the stretch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier grounds out. 9-3 Reds mid 9th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lopez grounds out to 1st.

[WVRedsFan]

Simon trying to make it interesting but one out.

[WVRedsFan]

Tell me about this Rodriguez kid.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bogusevic grounds out to 2nd.

[Tom Servo]

Tell me about this Rodriguez kid.
Hit everywhere until slumping in AAA. Doesn't walk, just hits.

[WVRedsFan]

Hit everywhere until slumping in AAA. Doesn't walk, just hits.

Thanks. Looked at his stats. Seemed to fall off this year.

[Tom Servo]

We're still good :beerme:

[WVRedsFan]

Good win.

[Kc61]

What evidence do you have that Heisey isn't patient, as in he doesn't wait for good pitches? To me, all the criticism of him is just that he swings early in the count. I don't see any evidence that he routinely is swinging at bad pitches.

He would only be better off being patient if it guarantees him of seeing better pitches by waiting. If you're not going to see a better pitch deeper in the count, it doesn't benefit you much to wait unless the pitcher you're facing has poor control.

Sorry but this fundamental argument is the strawman. It's not a fundamental. It's a style. Not everyone is better off waiting on pitches. Not everyone can be like Albert Pujols or Joey Votto. Some guys are more comfortable swinging the bat when they see a good pitch early in the count. That's smart hitting. The trick is to know when to say when, not waiting for the sake of waiting.

By your logic, baseball players largely had bad fundamentals for the first century of baseball, as pitch counts per plate appearance only came up in the last 10 years or so. It used to be that you had a piece of timber in your hands because you went to the plate looking for the best pitches to use it with. You didn't go to the plate looking to add pitches to a pitch tally or hope to draw a walk instead of hitting.

You insist on distorting my argument. The issue is not whether to swing at good, hittable pitches early. The issue is being overly aggressive rather than waiting.

Heisey is a .750 OPS hitter on the first pitch and overall. He has walked 12 times the entire season.

His current approach is resulting in Heisey being a fourth outfielder.

[Brutus]

Ho hum. Starting September almost 10 games up.

[Reds Fanatic]

Altuve grounds out to short. Reds win 9-3! Magic number now 22 and hopefuly will very shortly be 21. :beerme:

[Gizmo]

more please!

[Brutus]

You insist on distorting my argument. The issue is not whether to swing at good, hittable pitches early. The issue is being overly aggressive rather than waiting.

Heisey is a .750 OPS hitter on the first pitch and overall. He has walked 12 times the entire season.

His current approach is resulting in Heisey being a fourth outfielder.

You're complaining about a guy with a .750 OPS... yet his OPS on the first pitch is the same as his OPS overall? Sounds like that's evidence that being "patient" doesn't help him too much as a hitter.

What's interesting is that Heisey's career OPS on the first pitch is 1.002 and you want him to change that?

His OPS when ahead: .964. Even count: .877. Behind in the count: .530.

Sounds like your ideology isn't very good for him personally.

[Tom Servo]

Hard not to like how humble Bruce is. :thumbup: