Honestly, why haven't the Cubs won a WS Ring in 104 years?

[RedTruck]

This truly perplexes me. I understand if, say, the small market teams like the Reds, or the Tampa Bay Rays, or the Oakland A's didn't win in 104 years. That's understandable to some degree.

But it makes no sense with the cubs!!

They abide in a huge market in Chicago. Every day and night the stadium is packed. Heck, 2012 was an abysmal year for the Cubs yet they still ranked 5th in attendance. They have the funds to build and create a championship caliber team..but can't..in over 104 years.

Makes no sense, at all. Are the Cubs management that clueless on how to create a winner? I just can't fathom on why big market teams like the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Cardinals, Giants, can all win World Series titles but for the cubs it's like some foggy mirage.

[dubc47834]

It's the goat man...blessed curse!!!

[RedTruck]

It's the goat man...blessed curse!!!

No offense, but I see the "goat curse" as nothing but pulling straws as easy answers. :laugh:

[texasdave]

Yeah, they have been milking that "goat curse" for too long now. :laugh:

[dubc47834]

It was just a half hearted attempt at some humor man. Overall I think its poor club management a some bad luck!!!

[Salukifan2]

This truly perplexes me. I understand if, say, the small market teams like the Reds, or the Tampa Bay Rays, or the Oakland A's didn't win in 104 years. That's understandable to some degree.

But it makes no sense with the cubs!!

They abide in a huge market in Chicago. Every day and night the stadium is packed. Heck, 2012 was an abysmal year for the Cubs yet they still ranked 5th in attendance. They have the funds to build and create a championship caliber team..but can't..in over 104 years.

Makes no sense, at all. Are the Cubs management that clueless on how to create a winner? I just can't fathom on why big market teams like the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Cardinals, Giants, can all win World Series titles but for the cubs it's like some foggy mirage.

When did the St. Louis become a big
market?

[webbbj]

i think some big market teams shoot themselves in the foot in free agency every year.

Every off season there are a select number of FAs to go after. And the Yanks, Sox, Angels(recently) are the ones that have been getting the cream of the crop.


Once teams like the Cubs, Dodgers, Mets lose out on the A calibre FAs they have a feeling of desperation because the Yanks, Sox, and Angels are still going after the B calibre FAs so the Cubs, Mets and Dodgers overpay for B level FAs to keep them away from the Yanks etc.

They end up paying max dollars to B level guys. And also usuall lack farm depth b/c they will do the sort of thing in the trade market and just get stuck in this mediocrity.

They should really build their team w/in the organization like the reds, rays, etc and sign their own guys to long term deals. An ability the Rays, Reds dont always have. They will end up younger, more athletic and not overpay looking at the outside FAs.

[Mastodon]

When did the St. Louis become a big
market?

In terms of payroll the Cards are 7th in MLB. The rest of the top 10 save the Marlins are your perennial playoff teams. The bottom 20... not so much.

[Salukifan2]

Cardinals have 22nd largest media market. St louis media market is the same size as Portalnd Oregon or sacremento

[RedTruck]

Cardinals have 22nd largest media market. St louis media market is the same size as Portalnd Oregon or sacremento

Yet they ranked in the top 10 in attendance in all of the MLB, and there salary ranks in the top 10 as well.

[HometownHero]

Cardinals have 22nd largest media market. St louis media market is the same size as Portalnd Oregon or sacremento

But yet they have a far larger fan base regionally to draw from for various reasons leading to higher revenues due to having some of the highest average ticket prices in the game despite not being in a major market and tons of people willing to pay it.

[Salukifan2]

But yet they have a far larger fan base regionally to draw from for various reasons leading to higher revenues due to having some of the highest average ticket prices in the game despite not being in a major market and tons of people willing to pay it.

Seriously? take a look at how many large cities that are within an hour and a half of cincy. I count 4. Cincy is the 35th largest media market in the country. Around them they have Louisville 50th largest, Indianapolis 25th largest, Columbus is 32nd, and dayton is 64th. All of these cities have interstates that can get you to Cincy in an hour and a half or less and none of them have baseball teams. Cincinnati has tremendous media market for baseball. Cincinnati is not a small market if st. louis is a large market.

And the cubs haven't won a championship because their fans will continue to sell out games even when they are complete crap. This idea that if a fan base totally sticks with their team even when they are consistently cellar dwellers for over a century is an amazing, and loyal fan base is ridiculous! If you want your team to win you have to give ownership and the front a reason to make them win!

[HometownHero]

Seriously? take a look at how many large cities that are within an hour and a half of cincy. I count 4. Cincy is the 35th largest media market in the country. Around them they have Louisville 50th largest, Indianapolis 25th largest, Columbus is 32nd, and dayton is 64th. All of these cities have interstates that can get you to Cincy in an hour and a half or less and none of them have baseball teams. Cincinnati has tremendous media market for baseball. Cincinnati is not a small market if st. louis is a large market.

Those teams do have baseball teams who they all support greatly. Dayton has a the best drawing team in the MWL at 8,532 fans a game this year, that's over 3K more than 2nd place. Columbus is 2nd in the IL with 8,732, Indianapolis is 2nd with 8,501 and Louisville is 4th at 8,143 and for good measure Toledo is 5th at 7,870. Then when people also have the Tigers close to NW Ohio and the Indians in the NE.

So even without Toledo you're looking at those towns having 33,908 show up per home game. If the Reds got 1/3 of those people to come to a Reds game per game they would be drawing more than the Cards did this year.

Also the Cardinals have the KMOX ties with generations of people in the central US growing up as Cards fans listing to them on the radio since KMOX was one of the most post powerful stations on the air and passing it down to their kids. The Rays manager Joe Maddon grew up a Cards fan listing to the games and he lived in PA

[Salukifan2]

Those teams do have baseball teams who they all support greatly. Dayton has a the best drawing team in the MWL at 8,532 fans a game this year, that's over 3K more than 2nd place. Columbus is 2nd in the IL with 8,732, Indianapolis is 2nd with 8,501 and Louisville is 4th at 8,143 and for good measure Toledo is 5th at 7,870. Then when people also have the Tigers close to NW Ohio and the Indians in the NE.

So even without Toledo you're looking at those towns having 33,908 show up per home game. If the Reds got 1/3 of those people to come to a Reds game per game they would be drawing more than the Cards did this year.

Also the Cardinals have the KMOX ties with generations of people in the central US growing up as Cards fans listing to them on the radio since KMOX was one of the most post powerful stations on the air and passing it down to their kids. The Rays manager Joe Maddon grew up a Cards fan listing to the games and he lived in PA

Seriously hometown!? Thats really why you think the people in those cities don't come to Reds games!? they're too busy supporting there minor League Franchises with under 10,000 people a game! Give me a break man. Thats ridiculous. And i know those people in that part of ohio aren't REds fans. Thats why i left toledo, canton and Akron off my list. and they aren't within an hour and a half which the cities need to be within to be relevant to my argument which was clearly laid out in my earlier post.

If you count the total metro population of cincinnati and all major towns within 100 miles (Indy, Columbus, Dayton, Louisville, and Lexington) the total is over 8.3 million and you could probably tack on another million from all the medium sized towns in that area. You all have to stop feeling sorry because of being small market because if you really look at it geographically, you aren't small market at all..

[Todd Gack]

If you count the total metro population of cincinnati and all major towns within 100 miles (Indy, Columbus, Dayton, Louisville, and Lexington) the total is over 8.3 million and you could probably tack on another million from all the medium sized towns in that area. You all have to stop feeling sorry because of being small market because if you really look at it geographically, you aren't small market at all..

Well then who do you consider 'small market?' There are very few MLB teams I would consider 'small market' by your standards.

[Salukifan2]

Well then who do you consider 'small market?' There are very few MLB teams I would consider 'small market' by your standards.

Not true at all. Pittsburgh. St. louis. Milwaukee (chicago has two mlb teams so obviously they don't count). Cleveland. Baltimore (lots of big cities around but all with baseball teams). Denver. Minneapolis. Kansas city. Seattle. Phoenix. That seems like a pretty good list. All those cities are surrounded by relative nothingness compared to cincinnati.

I don't put either of the florida teams in because there are so many damn people in that state. And honestly both of those teams should be removed from MLB. baseball doesn't work in Florida. All the cities i have listed are cities with overall metro populations under 4 million but are surrounded by mostly rural country or territory belonging to other teams.

[HometownHero]

Seriously hometown!? Thats really why you think the people in those cities don't come to Reds games!? they're too busy supporting there minor League Franchises with under 10,000 people a game! Give me a break man. Thats ridiculous. And i know those people in that part of ohio aren't REds fans. Thats why i left toledo, canton and Akron off my list. and they aren't within an hour and a half which the cities need to be within to be relevant to my argument which was clearly laid out in my earlier post.

If you count the total metro population of cincinnati and all major towns within 100 miles (Indy, Columbus, Dayton, Louisville, and Lexington) the total is over 8.3 million and you could probably tack on another million from all the medium sized towns in that area. You all have to stop feeling sorry because of being small market because if you really look at it geographically, you aren't small market at all..

Some of those people do come to Reds game but only a fraction of what they would if they didn't have teams there. Just go look at how many minor league teams the Reds having playing around them vs what a team like the Cards do.

[Salukifan2]

The cards don't because there is only one town within a 100 mile radius of st louis that has 100,000 people and that is Springfield Illinois. The only other major cities in cardinal country are memphis and little rock and they are both 6 and 7 hours from st louis.

Im not saying that the reds are a major market team. What i am sayin is that they aren't small market. And i posted this on another thread but its worth repeating. Walt Jocketty, while being a great GM is terrible at getting ownership to open there wallets up.

Jocketty was fired as the cards GM in october of 2007. In 2007 the cardinals payroll was 92mil. by 2011, under mozeliak it was 105mil and now its 110mil. All of this transpired with the same owners. And it happened in only 5 seasons.

[foxfire123]

Some of those people do come to Reds game but only a fraction of what they would if they didn't have teams there. Just go look at how many minor league teams the Reds having playing around them vs what a team like the Cards do.

Hmmm, I can think of a couple frontier league teams close (River city Rascals and the one that plays over by Belleville) but the only true minor teams I can think of are Louisville and Springfield. Both a 2-4 hour drive from St Louis.

[Salukifan2]

Hmmm, I can think of a couple frontier league teams close (River city Rascals and the one that plays over by Belleville) but the only true minor teams I can think of are Louisville and Springfield. Both a 2-4 hour drive from St Louis.

louisville is reds country and springfield mo is outside of the the parameters i put forth. I chose those parameters becuase i believe that a real fan would go to a weeknight game if he/she lived within two hours of their team

[HometownHero]

louisville is reds country and springfield mo is outside of the the parameters i put forth. I chose those parameters becuase i believe that a real fan would go to a weeknight game if he/she lived within two hours of their team

I have family in Louisville and half the people they know root for the Cardinals since they had their Triple-A team there for 25 years.

Look at this map and see how St Louis is free of minor league teams
http://www.milb.com/milb/info/geographical.jsp

[foxfire123]

Yeah, hasn't Cinci only had Louisville for about 10-12 years? IIRC didn't they essentially swap Nashville (?) for Louisville?

[Salukifan2]

Nashville is braves country for the most part. There are probably some reds and cards fans there. It won't take long for louisville to become completely country. Denver and Rochester NY used to be hardcore cardinal country because of farm teams but it didn't take long once the farm teams left for those cities to change.

Also about jocketty, you'll eventually get tired of trying to find the diamonds in the rough. With of the luck the cardinals have with "no name" players that Jocketty found there was also plenty of bad luck. People forget how he signed Kip wells in '07, Juan Encarnacion, Larry Bigbie, Ceasar izturis, troy glaus, Sidney Ponson, Mike Maroth, Tod Wellemeyer, and there is more.

For every Ryan Ludwick or Chris Carpenter, or Jason Marquis the ole walt will hit the Jack pot on there will 3 flops. I know that was a little off topic but its something you should know about your GM

[HometownHero]

Hmmm, I can think of a couple frontier league teams close (River city Rascals and the one that plays over by Belleville) but the only true minor teams I can think of are Louisville and Springfield. Both a 2-4 hour drive from St Louis.

The Frontier League is independent and their teams don't draw well, teams like River City draw just over 2K a game and they attempt to build their schedules around when the Cards are the road or off if at all possible.

[foxfire123]

The Frontier League is independent and their teams don't draw well, teams like River City draw just over 2K a game and they attempt to build their schedules around when the Cards are the road or off if at all possible.

We keep saying we're going to start attending some River City games since they used to be the Zane Greys from Zanesville--which is our hometown. First year they were in O'Fallon I recognized a couple of the boys from the Muskingum county high school teams.

[JayStubbs]

Cardinals were the only team west of the Mississippi, and South of the Mason Dixon line for quite awhile. Because of this, the entire country west of the Mississipi and south of the Mason Dixon Line were Crd fans. They were the Yankees of the NL, and always had more fans, more money and a bigger payroll than any other NL team, including the Giants and Dodgers.

Some of that has gone away with expansion, but the Cardinals always have been one of the most popular teams in MLB. Their so called "market size" is irrelevant. Their market defies geography.

[Salukifan2]

Not anymore really. With the explosion of the NFL and NBA over the last 60 or so years and expansion of baseball the "cardinals country" has really shrinked. And my argument isn't really about the cardinals market size, its about the reds. There a ton of unclaimed fans to be had in the try state area that cincy sits on. Also how much a team is willing and able to spend depends alot on the owner and GM. Look at the Marlins, they are in a huge city but outside of the cubans no one in south florida gives a damn about baseball yet their owner went out and spent money and now they have a huge pay roll. they just spent their money unwisely, something Jocketty wouldn't do

[JayStubbs]

Not anymore really. With the explosion of the NFL and NBA over the last 60 or so years and expansion of baseball the "cardinals country" has really shrinked. And my argument isn't really about the cardinals market size, its about the reds. There a ton of unclaimed fans to be had in the try state area that cincy sits on. Also how much a team is willing and able to spend depends alot on the owner and GM. Look at the Marlins, they are in a huge city but outside of the cubans no one in south florida gives a damn about baseball yet their owner went out and spent money and now they have a huge pay roll. they just spent their money unwisely, something Jocketty wouldn't do

You are very correct about this.

In the 1970's the Williams brothers understood the value of expanding Reds country, and the team was popular all over Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana. Then Marge Schott and Carl Linder pretty much ignored fans outside of Cincinnati, and Reds Nation shrunk greatly. Cast is starting to make changes in that direction, but he has a lot of catching up to do.

[Mastodon]

Seriously? take a look at how many large cities that are within an hour and a half of cincy. I count 4. Cincy is the 35th largest media market in the country. Around them they have Louisville 50th largest, Indianapolis 25th largest, Columbus is 32nd, and dayton is 64th. All of these cities have interstates that can get you to Cincy in an hour and a half or less and none of them have baseball teams. Cincinnati has tremendous media market for baseball. Cincinnati is not a small market if st. louis is a large market.

And the cubs haven't won a championship because their fans will continue to sell out games even when they are complete crap. This idea that if a fan base totally sticks with their team even when they are consistently cellar dwellers for over a century is an amazing, and loyal fan base is ridiculous! If you want your team to win you have to give ownership and the front a reason to make them win!

The reds also have a ton of other teams to compete with. We have the bengals, bearcats, xavier musketeers in cincinnati. Go an hour north and thats where buckeye country really gets fanatic. A couple anywhere north of that is dominated by cleveland sports. Cavs, browns, indians. Eastern ohio usually pulls for Pittsburgh teams especially the steelers but also the pirates and penguins. Go west and you are in colts country which is still hot even though manning is gone. from the south uk is huge around here. So the reds are smack in the center of some notoriously fanatic fanbases mostly UK the steelers and ohio state. The reds really do have insane competition for fans.

[dubc47834]

louisville is reds country and springfield mo is outside of the the parameters i put forth. I chose those parameters becuase i believe that a real fan would go to a weeknight game if he/she lived within two hours of their team

Indy has a minor league team also, they are with the Pirates.

[dubc47834]

The reds also have a ton of other teams to compete with. We have the bengals, bearcats, xavier musketeers in cincinnati. Go an hour north and thats where buckeye country really gets fanatic. A couple anywhere north of that is dominated by cleveland sports. Cavs, browns, indians. Eastern ohio usually pulls for Pittsburgh teams especially the steelers but also the pirates and penguins. Go west and you are in colts country which is still hot even though manning is gone. from the south uk is huge around here. So the reds are smack in the center of some notoriously fanatic fanbases mostly UK the steelers and ohio state. The reds really do have insane competition for fans.

In my opinion every team has to deal with other teams in their market or state. This doesn't explain why people do or don't go to games or spend money on merchandise. For the majority of the baseball season all the other sports are in the offseason. Yeah at the beginning you have March Madness and the NBA finals finishing up and at the end you have college football and the NFL just starting, but to me you can't use that as an excuse. I live 3 hours away and when I talk to people about Cincinnati, yes it is a baseball town but the fans that live outside of Cincy for whatever reason just don't travle well. Also, I think 20 years of the Reds losing won't bring many fans your way. Most of us as kids pick our favorite team by either who is winning, who our parents root for, or the 1st game we went to. The Cards have been winners for a while now, with a few down years. So kids growing up in the midwest naturally gravitated toward them. I think that if we can keep wii=nning for a few years our fanbase will grow also. I know here in Terre Haute it is cool to be a Reds fan again!!! Just my opinion!!!

[joshua]

Although Cincinnati is a baseball town, Ohio is a football state. If it weren't for the Buckeyes taking up so much of peoples attention I think the Reds would have a more rabid following. The Cardinals don't have to contend with anything on the same scale as Ohio State.

[Salukifan2]

Although Cincinnati is a baseball town, Ohio is a football state. If it weren't for the Buckeyes taking up so much of peoples attention I think the Reds would have a more rabid following. The Cardinals don't have to contend with anything on the same scale as Ohio State.

They don't compete with basebal. No one gives a crap about NCAA baseball. its just a fact. Look im aware that there are other sports teams in that area that compete with the reds. But there are enough people within two hours of Cincinnati that for a 97 win team to only average 29,000 per game is more that disappointing.

[JayStubbs]

They don't compete with basebal. No one gives a crap about NCAA baseball. its just a fact. Look im aware that there are other sports teams in that area that compete with the reds. But there are enough people within two hours of Cincinnati that for a 97 win team to only average 29,000 per game is more that disappointing.

Two hours is a long drive for a baseball game.

During the week, it's pretty much impossible for a family outside of Cincinnati to make a game that lasts 3+ hours. Even from Dayton, which is just around an hour away, you factor in parking and getting out of the lot, it's a 6-7 hour excursion. It means leaving right after work and getting home around midnight or later.

With gas at $4+ a gallon, plus the cost of going to the game, it's really asking a lot for a family to so this on a regular basis.

A grew up in Dayton. We made it to two maybe three games a year. And we were a huge baseball family. It simply was all we were able to make.

St. Louis has over half a million more people who live less than a half hour from the stadium than Cincinnati does. That's a big reason why they have better attendance.

[Salukifan2]

Two hours is a long drive for a baseball game.

During the week, it's pretty much impossible for a family outside of Cincinnati to make a game that lasts 3+ hours. Even from Dayton, which is just around an hour away, you factor in parking and getting out of the lot, it's a 6-7 hour excursion. It means leaving right after work and getting home around midnight or later.

With gas at $4+ a gallon, plus the cost of going to the game, it's really asking a lot for a family to so this on a regular basis.

A grew up in Dayton. We made it to two maybe three games a year. And we were a huge baseball family. It simply was all we were able to make.

St. Louis has over half a million more people who live less than a half hour from the stadium than Cincinnati does. That's a big reason why they have better attendance.

As a reds fan can you honestly tell me you are proud of your city and fan base for supporting the best team in baseball this year with only 29,000 per game.

And if someone in dayton thinks that is too far to drive on a tuesday night to watch players like Chapman, Votto, Phillips, Cueto, and Latos then they aren't a very good fan.

[redsfan80]

Back to the topic of this thread...(The Cubs not winning for 104 years.)

I believe they are not a good organization. When you blame losing on something like a goat for so long...excuses like that are poor excuses. It's why I've been a little frustrated with fellow Reds fans for calling the Cardinals winning "luck." Joe Buck and Tim McCarver talked about today how the Cardinals have played in 7 LCS's since 2000. They were both like "wow." Obviously the Cardinals are doing something right. It doesn't mean you have to like them or root for them, but when we start being that group of people who just walk around saying "it's just luck they win..." we become like 1st graders and look really bad as fans. We start falling into that idea that winning is just luck and losing is bad luck.

I'd rather look at a team like the Cardinals and see if we can't take some of what they do and apply it here. (Which we done...with Jocketty and many former Cardinals...and we've been winning more the last 3 years.) Though I don't like the Cardinals, 7 LCS's since 2000? cmon, that's respectable.

We cannot copy what the Yankees do for their success cause we don't have the money. The Cardinals win differently than the Yankees...and we can emulate many things the Cardinals do.

The Cubs? They are simply not a good organization.

[Salukifan2]

Back to the topic of this thread...(The Cubs not winning for 104 years.)

I believe they are not a good organization. When you blame losing on something like a goat for so long...excuses like that are poor excuses. It's why I've been a little frustrated with fellow Reds fans for calling the Cardinals winning "luck." Joe Buck and Tim McCarver talked about today how the Cardinals have played in 7 LCS's since 2000. They were both like "wow." Obviously the Cardinals are doing something right. It doesn't mean you have to like them or root for them, but when we start being that group of people who just walk around saying "it's just luck they win..." we become like 1st graders and look really bad as fans. We start falling into that idea that winning is just luck and losing is bad luck.

I'd rather look at a team like the Cardinals and see if we can't take some of what they do and apply it here. (Which we done...with Jocketty and many former Cardinals...and we've been winning more the last 3 years.) Though I don't like the Cardinals, 7 LCS's since 2000? cmon, that's respectable.

We cannot copy what the Yankees do for their success cause we don't have the money. The Cardinals win differently than the Yankees...and we can emulate many things the Cardinals do.

The Cubs? They are simply not a good organization.

Totally agree. Jim Hendry was a terrible GM. He saddled the cubs with really bad contracts that made it hard for them to win after '08. That being said, Epstein should be able to turn things around on the north side.

This division is more fun when the cubs are good.

[JayStubbs]

As a reds fan can you honestly tell me you are proud of your city and fan base for supporting the best team in baseball this year with only 29,000 per game.

And if someone in dayton thinks that is too far to drive on a tuesday night to watch players like Chapman, Votto, Phillips, Cueto, and Latos then they aren't a very good fan.

I'm guessing you don't have kids, lol. Thousands do make the trip, but simply can't do it as often as people from Chesterfield can make it to Busch.

And yeah, I wish the Reds had better support. Hopefully they will soon :-)

[WDE]

Attendence doesn't win championships. Don't know why you would think that.

[Salukifan2]

Attendence doesn't win championships. Don't know why you would think that.

Attendance gives you the money to have a pay roll that is over 80 million. The higher the pay roll the better players you can afford. You'll understand how attendance wins championships when Chapman hits the market and the Yankees are interested. Chapman will cost possibly 20 mil a year when he hits the market (if being a starter works out). Jay bruce is only costing you 5 mil right now. He's a 15 mil a year player. Cueto is making 5.4 mil this year. After his 2012 campaign he'll be able to command around 15 mil a year on the open market when he hits. For the next 6 years you will have over 1/3 of you entire payroll invested in Phillips and votto. And when Bruce, cueto, and Chapman become arbitration eligible and the free agent eligible good luck retaining them with only 29,000 fans per game.

The average ticket price of a reds game is $20. if you average 6,000 more a game, 35,000 total that would make 10 million over 81 games. Plus once you add food and beer at the game, program, scorecard and peanuts youre looking at another 15 mil in payroll space. So you tell me, would the reds be a better team with 15 mil more to spend on free agents, player development, and scouting? i thinks so

[RedTruck]

Attendance gives you the money to have a pay roll that is over 80 million. The higher the pay roll the better players you can afford. You'll understand how attendance wins championships when Chapman hits the market and the Yankees are interested. Chapman will cost possibly 20 mil a year when he hits the market (if being a starter works out). Jay bruce is only costing you 5 mil right now. He's a 15 mil a year player. Cueto is making 5.4 mil this year. After his 2012 campaign he'll be able to command around 15 mil a year on the open market when he hits. For the next 6 years you will have over 1/3 of you entire payroll invested in Phillips and votto. And when Bruce, cueto, and Chapman become arbitration eligible and the free agent eligible good luck retaining them with only 29,000 fans per game.

The average ticket price of a reds game is $20. if you average 6,000 more a game, 35,000 total that would make 10 million over 81 games. Plus once you add food and beer at the game, program, scorecard and peanuts youre looking at another 15 mil in payroll space. So you tell me, would the reds be a better team with 15 mil more to spend on free agents, player development, and scouting? i thinks so

WE LOVE THE REDS!!! CINCINNATI BASEBALL CITY SINCE 1869 WOOOOOOT!!!


May 15th, Reds vs. Pirates.

12,000 in attendance.

Reds can't sign former players, can't sign major free agents, start a new dark age.

CINCINNATI REDS SUCK. I hate the REDS. BOOOOOOOO!!

Show's up only to weekend games.

Excuse I live in Blue Ash, can't make the trek to Cincinnati.

BOOOO THE REDS.

[webbbj]

I think for atmospheric purposes it would be a horrible idea but the stadium would have been better off being in Mason since thats where the money is and where a larger concentration of reds fans are located.

But, Cincinnati is growing and downtown is etting even better and attendance will rise, it just takes time.

[Salukifan2]

WE LOVE THE REDS!!! CINCINNATI BASEBALL CITY SINCE 1869 WOOOOOOT!!!


May 15th, Reds vs. Pirates.

12,000 in attendance.

Reds can't sign former players, can't sign major free agents, start a new dark age.

CINCINNATI REDS SUCK. I hate the REDS. BOOOOOOOO!!

Show's up only to weekend games.

Excuse I live in Blue Ash, can't make the trek to Cincinnati.

BOOOO THE REDS.

This has almost no relevance with what i posted and actually makes you sound like you're dissing the reds.