Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

So Leather Pants was Trolling too?

---

Nope.

He's cool.

Because you're an owner apologist, you lose 18 cool points and perpetual rights to the second fridge.

Oh, and you're a troll not just because you responded to LP, but because you stole my catchphrase without giving me credit. I wasn't antagonizing you at all, but you decided to troll.

That's uncool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I vehemently disagree with Old school. But I don’t think he’s trolling. Just deeply misguided.

---

Thanks for having my back on this one and understanding disagreement doesn’t make someone a troll or must mean they are a family member of ownership or a simp or on drugs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Did you not see the comments I responded to? Perhaps I was trying to show how ridiculous they were by saying something as ridiculous to the other side.

---

What you're responding to doesn't matter.

You're still trolling if you're seeking to inflame.

And you were.

Admit it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Nope.

He's cool.

Because you're an owner apologist, you lose 18 cool points and perpetual rights to the second fridge.

Oh, and you're a troll not just because you responded to LP, but because you stole my catchphrase without giving me credit. I wasn't antagonizing you at all, but you decided to troll.

That's uncool.

---

I’m all for nicknaming the team the “penurious buttheads” if the season plays out well. You’d get all the credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

If he purposefully provokes others with incendiary posts?

That's trolling, bruh.

---

I don’t think he’s being incendiary. No.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

What you're responding to doesn't matter.

You're still trolling if you're seeking to inflame.

And you were.

Admit it.

---

It’s pretty obvious it’s an inflammatory statement even if I was being sarcastic. See how I just answered your question directly?

I’ll wait for you to say Leather Pants was doing the same and did so first….multiple times. That the other times I was called all kinds of ridiculous crap, it was because people disagreed with me, not because I was trolling. And lastly. Tell us all with a straight face the Reds new normal payroll in the coming years is $44-$75 million. And lastly tell us all who on here that’s an actual Reds fan doesn’t care about the team winning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

It’s pretty obvious it’s an inflammatory statement even if I was being sarcastic. See how I just answered your question directly?

I’ll wait for you to say Leather Pants was doing the same and did so first….multiple times. That the other times I was called all kinds of ridiculous crap, it was because people disagreed with me, not because I was trolling. And lastly. Tell us all with a straight face the Reds new normal payroll in the coming years is $44-$75 million. And lastly tell us all who on here that’s an actual Reds fan doesn’t care about the team winning.

---

Again, it doesn't matter what someone else was doing.

And let's not pull that strawman BS here. Don't be dishonest.

While not quite as egregious as being a toady for millionaires and billionaires, that, too, is totally uncool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Again, it doesn't matter what someone else was doing.

And let's not pull that strawman BS here. Don't be dishonest.

While not quite as egregious as being a toady for millionaires and billionaires, that, too, is totally uncool.

---

Yes it does. I answered in kind. Is it really that hard to say he was making incendiary and off the wall comments? Anyone with a first grade reading level saw it. Anyone who has been around here for more than 30 seconds knows i’m a lifelong fan and not a troll or any of the ridiculous and childish crap I’ve been called in this thread.

I’m not being dishonest. I straight answered your question and told you straight why I said what I did. I’m sorry you’d rather talk about strawmen or make me seem like a bad person because I think people are entitled to spend what they earn however they see fit regardless of what I or anyone else thinks they should do with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Yes it does. I answered in kind. Is it really that hard to say he was making incendiary and off the wall comments? Anyone with a first grade reading level saw it. Anyone who has been around here for more than 30 seconds knows i’m a lifelong fan and not a troll or any of the ridiculous and childish crap I’ve been called in this thread.

I’m not being dishonest. I straight answered your question and told you straight why I said what I did. I’m sorry you’d rather talk about strawmen or make me seem like a bad person because I think people are entitled to spend what they earn however they see fit regardless of what I or anyone else thinks they should do with it.

---

No, it doesn't. "Answering in kind" doesn't absolve you of guilt-- it just shows that you can troll too. (And I'd argue you weren't answering in kind at all. I didn't insult you, yet you drug me into this with a troll comment.)

Strawmen are dishonest.

You've purposefully changed arguments into ownership cutting payroll to $44-75M instead of the measured and explained posts LP provided. You didn't like his posts because he proved you-- and ownership-- dead wrong. Ever since then, you've had a mad-on for him, and you've come for every post he's had. That's childish.

So are, for the record, these insults about reading levels.

The straw man you've built is straight up dishonest, as you know that wasn't the conversation being discussed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

No, it doesn't. "Answering in kind" doesn't absolve you of guilt-- it just shows that you can troll too. (And I'd argue you weren't answering in kind at all. I didn't insult you, yet you drug me into this with a troll comment.)

Strawmen are dishonest.

You've purposefully changed arguments into ownership cutting payroll to $44-75M instead of the measured and explained posts LP provided. You didn't like his posts because he proved you-- and ownership-- dead wrong. Ever since then, you've had a mad-on for him, and you've come for every post he's had. That's childish.

So are, for the record, these insults about reading levels.

The straw man you've built is straight up dishonest, as you know that wasn't the conversation being discussed.

---

The record speaks for itself. The $44-$75M was my point the entire time. It’s the hyperbolic stuff I spoke of since my first post. They are never going to spend that low and you know it.

The record shows it’s ok for people on your side of the argument to state basically whatever they want regardless of its objective ridiculousness or inflammatory nature, call me whatever and make insinuations about my character for the better part of a week now. But that’s all cool by you. You can’t be adult enough to acknowledge that in the conversation and move on. Just because you don’t say it doesn’t mean it’s not there to read. Instead saying yeah those things said were garbage, the first time I punch back with an open and admittedly sarcastic comment, you go all thread mommy on me and act like I lied when I flat out told you my motives for saying what I did. Congrats dude. You can’t be objective of the behavior of yourself and others on your side making things personal with me by calling me things that are utterly untrue. You’re either not wanting or are incapable of having a good faith discussion at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I don’t think he’s being incendiary. No.

---

I really love your band. ... And Russell, Russell, the guitar sound... is incendiary. Incendiary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

The record speaks for itself. The $44-$75M was my point the entire time. It’s the hyperbolic stuff I spoke of since my first post. They are never going to spend that low and you know it.

The record shows it’s ok for people on your side of the argument to state basically whatever they want regardless of its objective ridiculousness or inflammatory nature, call me whatever and make insinuations about my character for the better part of a week now. But that’s all cool by you. You can’t be adult enough to acknowledge that in the conversation and move on. Just because you don’t say it doesn’t mean it’s not there to read. Instead saying yeah those things said were garbage, the first time I punch back with an open and admittedly sarcastic comment, you go all thread mommy on me and act like I lied when I flat out told you my motives for saying what I did. Congrats dude. You can’t be objective of the behavior of yourself and others on your side making things personal with me by calling me things that are utterly untrue. You’re either not wanting or are incapable of having a good faith discussion at this point.

---

Good faith?

Please.

You haven't argued in good faith since your first suck-up to ownership.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Good faith?

Please.

You haven't argued in good faith since your first suck-up to ownership.

---

Not being in good faith means you don’t see objective actions by both sides. Which you either haven’t or are completely ignoring in regard to personal statements made about me or off the wall statements that were made by those on your side of the argument.

What you pointed to in calling out good faith to me was disagreement in opinion. I also find it funny that I’m getting called a suck up and apologist to the FO when I’ve repeatedly called their actions incompetent for a good part of this thread.

It’s pretty clear we were likely talking past eachother and I stated as much in simple terms at post 218. I was speaking of dollars saved in the range of where the Reds historically set their payroll. They are below that and will be more so in the coming years. Recent history shows they’ll spend more than they have thus year or more than 44-75 million in years to come. You were talking about dollars exceeding what the Reds normally spend in payroll.

That doesn’t make me any of the things said about me. It means we were talking about different things and didn’t realize it until well into the discussion. I have pretty thick skin and never really got personal back with anyone who levied false allegations my way, or made insinuations about my character or world view because we have obviously different political beliefs.

For anyone that was truly offended by my original use of the term butthurt instead of the word upset and not using it as a post hoc excuse the throw personal comments my way, I do apologize if that wasn’t clear. When I first used the term I meant it to mean some people were so upset over the moves that it clouded objective analysis and lead to hyperbolic statements such as the $44-75M payroll example I used.

When I used the term earlier today, I meant it as good natured ribbing back to comments of a similar ilk made by people on the other side of the discussion. Yes, I get how it can be seen as inflammatory, but acting like it wasn’t a two way street is a bit much, when it clearly was.

I was at a bar last night when the bottom of the 9th came up and they had it on TV, and I was surprised to see most of the bar hooked on that last rally.

Meanwhile the only thing I could feel still was just disgust and resentment at what ownership has done to this franchise. I almost wish I could still be a legit fan, but Castellini has just sucked any remnants of enjoyment I get out of following this team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I was at a bar last night when the bottom of the 9th came up and they had it on TV, and I was surprised to see most of the bar hooked on that last rally.

Meanwhile the only thing I could feel still was just disgust and resentment at what ownership has done to this franchise. I almost wish I could still be a legit fan, but Castellini has just sucked any remnants of enjoyment I get out of following this team.

---

No surprise that a room full of people in a drinking establishment in Cincinnati were glued to a game on TV that involved a team from Cincinnati. Especially one playing in its 141st season. Most people don't digest everything Reds, they go to games with friends, drink beers and think about how their grandfather did the same thing and so did his grandfather. Sure they love it when the Reds win, but they also don't recoil at losses. They aren't carrying around the teams actions with them day to day, to them the Reds are just another part of their summer days and always have been.

When the Reds do great these people feed the teams coffers and make rich men richer, but they won't turn their back on them when they aren't, because they are just not as invested as us.

Multiple boot licking articles on Cincinnati.com today about how you should be happy with whatever Bob gives you, because "someone else may move the team"

Same crap different year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by westofyou

No surprise that a room full of people in a drinking establishment in Cincinnati were glued to a game on TV that involved a team from Cincinnati. Especially one playing in its 141st season. Most people don't digest everything Reds, they go to games with friends, drink beers and think about how their grandfather did the same thing and so did his grandfather. Sure they love it when the Reds win, but they also don't recoil at losses. They aren't carrying around the teams actions with them day to day, to them the Reds are just another part of their summer days and always have been.

When the Reds do great these people feed the teams coffers and make rich men richer, but they won't turn their back on them when they aren't, because they are just not as invested as us.

---

Idk man, people really started to tune out during the last tank cycle. In 2018, by like June or so, it was rare to find a bar or restaurant with the game on around town. I think they’re at risk of that again depending how the next year or two go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Idk man, people really started to tune out during the last tank cycle. In 2018, by like June or so, it was rare to find a bar or restaurant with the game on around town. I think they’re at risk of that again depending how the next year or two go.

---

This roster is nothing like those rosters.

I get it, Winker and Gray are gone. However, this team is going to be more competitive with regard to the day to day games than a lot of folks want to admit. At least until they dump Mahle, Castillo, Pham, Solano, and potentially others at the deadline. This is not the Pirates we are watching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I vehemently disagree with Old school. But I don’t think he’s trolling. Just deeply misguided.

---

I don’t know, I definitely think everyone should think exactly the same on here, we need to tar and feather anyone that disagrees with the groupthink and call them trolls, dishonest, and uncool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Idk man, people really started to tune out during the last tank cycle. In 2018, by like June or so, it was rare to find a bar or restaurant with the game on around town. I think they’re at risk of that again depending how the next year or two go.

---

Well yeah, but it's also the second game of the year. People love the buffet the first couple times they go back and forth, then a kid pukes and everyone looks the other way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Multiple boot licking articles on Cincinnati.com today about how you should be happy with whatever Bob gives you, because "someone else may move the team"

Same crap different year.

---

That’s a pretty lame take from the papers. Even if Bob were to sell, I think there’s pretty much a 0% chance he’d sell to someone who’d move the team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by westofyou

Well yeah, but it's also the second game of the year. People love the buffet the first couple times they go back and forth, then a kid pukes and everyone looks the other way

---

I was at a Chinese Buffet about 10 years ago in Charlotte at lunch with my coworkers. This really big fat guy started choking, everyone just kind of glanced at him and looked away. I was like “wtf?!” And jumped over at gave him the heimlich. He barfed out some half chewed orange chicken. The guy just kind of coughed a few times, and I swear to god, didn’t look back at me or say thank you or anything. Went back to his table and kept eating. It stunk like cheap cologne and vomit. Everyone in the restaurant barely even acknowledged what happened and kept eating. One of the most bizarre moments of my life. I haven’t been able to even consider eating at a Chinese buffet again. Just disgusting and depressing places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

This roster is nothing like those rosters.

I get it, Winker and Gray are gone. However, this team is going to be more competitive with regard to the day to day games than a lot of folks want to admit. At least until they dump Mahle, Castillo, Pham, Solano, and potentially others at the deadline. This is not the Pirates we are watching.

---

This team looks like it’ll be legit if Senzel stays healthy and Greene and Lodolo can pitch well. At this juncture, I think San Martin earned a ticket to Louisville last night assuming the timeframes on Minor and Castillo are accurate. Get those guys in the rotation. And I think we’ll see this team make some noise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

I was at a Chinese Buffet about 10 years ago in Charlotte at lunch with my coworkers. This really big fat guy started choking, everyone just kind of glanced at him and looked away. I was like “wtf?!” And jumped over at gave him the heimlich. He barfed out some half chewed orange chicken. The guy just kind of coughed a few times, and I swear to god, didn’t look back at me or say thank you or anything. Went back to his table and kept eating. It stunk like cheap cologne and vomit. Everyone in the restaurant barely even acknowledged what happened and kept eating. One of the most bizarre moments of my life. I haven’t been able to even consider eating at a Chinese buffet again. Just disgusting and depressing places.

---

Lord dude. That’s crazy. I never liked the places but that story put me over the top to never go back to one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

I was at a Chinese Buffet about 10 years ago in Charlotte at lunch with my coworkers. This really big fat guy started choking, everyone just kind of glanced at him and looked away. I was like “wtf?!” And jumped over at gave him the heimlich. He barfed out some half chewed orange chicken. The guy just kind of coughed a few times, and I swear to god, didn’t look back at me or say thank you or anything. Went back to his table and kept eating. It stunk like cheap cologne and vomit. Everyone in the restaurant barely even acknowledged what happened and kept eating. One of the most bizarre moments of my life. I haven’t been able to even consider eating at a Chinese buffet again. Just disgusting and depressing places.

---

Two thoughts

My friend experienced the fat kid vomiting at tableside at a beef buffet once and also can't think of them

Second one... I went to a beer blast at Dr Heimlich's house 40 odd years ago, his daughter went to Summit Country Day with my buddy

Last season, despite the team actually being decent, I was half tuned out most of the time because I could tell that the team was winning in spite of ownership. That it felt like they really wanted to tear down at that point, but couldn’t do so when they actually started competing. But I had the feeling all along they wouldn’t make significant additions no matter how good they were last year.

This team is an even worse version of that. Let’s say they do manage to somehow hit the best case scenario and pull like 80 wins out of their ass. Hard for me to give a damn, given that they would be even better than that if they weren’t pathetic cheapskates.

I’m done with moral victories, done with “ah well we sure had a pleasant season with a record a game or two above 500.” I’m just not interested in following a team that clearly isn’t trying to win it at all. That’s all there is to it for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Last season, despite the team actually being decent, I was half tuned out most of the time because I could tell that the team was winning in spite of ownership. That it felt like they really wanted to tear down at that point, but couldn’t do so when they actually started competing. But I had the feeling all along they wouldn’t make significant additions no matter how good they were last year.

This team is an even worse version of that. Let’s say they do manage to somehow hit the best case scenario and pull like 80 wins out of their ass. Hard for me to give a damn, given that they would be even better than that if they weren’t pathetic cheapskates.

I’m done with moral victories, done with “ah well we sure had a pleasant season with a record a game or two above 500.” I’m just not interested in following a team that clearly isn’t trying to win it at all. That’s all there is to it for me.

---

Ah, so you’re a band wagon/front runner fan now. I’m not saying that as an insult, I get it. I wish I could be like that, but I simply can’t.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

Ah, so you’re a band wagon/front runner fan now. I’m not saying that as an insult, I get it. I wish I could be like that, but I simply can’t.

---

I can't either

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

Ah, so you’re a band wagon/front runner fan now. I’m not saying that as an insult, I get it. I wish I could be like that, but I simply can’t.

---

No not all. I’ve just had enough of ****ty baseball in my life, wasted too much time on it for it to be fun anymore. Not going to waste anymore time on a franchise that doesn’t care if that’s what they’re serving up or not.

That was meant to be backhand though, let’s be real man. I’m not a fan at all anymore lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

No not all. I’ve just had enough of ****ty baseball in my life, wasted too much time on it for it to be fun anymore. Not going to waste anymore time on a franchise that doesn’t care if that’s what they’re serving up or not.

That was meant to be backhand though, let’s be real man. I’m not a fan at all anymore lol

---

Ok, so never rooting for the Reds again no matter what. Then, just out of curiosity, why do you still come here? I mean, I honestly hope you stay as you are one of my favorites on this website, but if you despise the Reds, are not following the Reds, will never root for the Reds again (even if they win 100 games and win a World Series, which yes is a fantasy), then to quote my signature, what would you say ya do here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

Ok, so never rooting for the Reds again no matter what. Then, just out of curiosity, why do you still come here? I mean, I honestly hope you stay as you are one of my favorites on this website, but if you despise the Reds, are not following the Reds, will never root for the Reds again (even if they win 100 games and win a World Series, which yes is a fantasy), then to quote my signature, what would you say ya do here?

---

I’m here mostly out of habit I guess and because there are people I consider e-friends here. Beyond that? Idk, I guess I’m second in command behind FCB in the role of “disgruntled observer”

I mean never say never I guess, but bare minimum until this team sells to an owner that clearly is committed to winning, I don’t trust them and I’m not wasting my time on them anymore. I’ve got too much going on in my life for that. This is a hobby at the end of the day, it’s supposed to be fun, not an exercise in misery and frustration. And starting another “hey maybe if we’re lucky, in 3 years….!” cycle is just that.

No more Castellinis and I might be willing to wear a wishbone C hat again and spend money on this organization. But not until then.

Believe it or not, I’m pretty much average when it comes to disgruntled fans. I’m still here after 26 years of futility. Thousands of fans have vanished and never returned.

I won’t pretend to understand the mind of someone who looks at this franchise and gives it the benefit of the doubt. Some people are just congenitally sunny regardless of the reality on the ground. I’ve never understood it, but vive la difference.

I used to be a pretty hardcore Cincinnati Bengals fan. Mike Brown's milking the franchise in the 1990s (so he could buy the team outright), killed that off for me. Which, now, is kind of good and kind of bad.

When the Bengals stink, I go find something else to do and don't think much of it. But, also as a result, when they are doing really well like they are now, the ceiling of enjoyment I get from that is far far lower than before. Basically, Mike Brown's scam in the 90s sucked all the highs and lows out of being a fan, for me.

I say that because I think Reds ownership is borrowing from the 1990s Mike Brown playbook and it is slowly having the same effect on me. I'm not there yet. But every year I bail out a little earlier when things start going south, from a game standpoint and a season standpoint.

This is why I think there is a special place in hell for owners of entities that have fanbases, that use that ownership to milk the entity instead of produce the best product possible. If you want to buy KMart and use it as a tax write off or whatever... fine. No one is rooting for KMart. But when you buy a sports franchise and bleed it for profit by producing an inferior on-field product, I'm sorry but that makes you a terrible human being.

They are basically profiting by robbing fans of positive fan experience. That's what it comes down to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Believe it or not, I’m pretty much average when it comes to disgruntled fans. I’m still here after 26 years of futility. Thousands of fans have vanished and never returned.

I won’t pretend to understand the mind of someone who looks at this franchise and gives it the benefit of the doubt. Some people are just congenitally sunny regardless of the reality on the ground. I’ve never understood it, but vive la difference.

---

I actually don’t give the benefit of the doubt to the Reds. At this point I expect them to be mediocre pretty much every year. I just can’t not have hope and I can’t quit watching and following. It’s difficult for me to separate the Reds as a whole and how much I like some of the players and truly believe there is a lot of talent coming up soon. I want to be clear: I didn’t ask monds that question because I want him to leave the site forever, I really do mean he is of my favorite posters on here. Believe it or not I’m glad you post here as well. At this point I acknowledge there’s more wrong with how I feel about the Reds than how you or Monds feel. I’m the broken one.

The hardest thing to do in baseball is to fire the owner. If there’s anything productive to do, it might be to turn the conversation toward who should/could buy the team, and how to change the many-cooks ownership structure.

Another poverty PR piece from the Enquirer: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ry/9514001002/

They really want you to know that Bob doesn't have as much money as other people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfboy

Another poverty PR piece from the Enquirer: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ry/9514001002/

They really want you to know that Bob doesn't have as much money as other people.

---

He doesn’t, but then again other teams aren’t owned by thirty other individuals either. Maybe the Enquirer should focus on the ridiculous ownership structure and how that affects payroll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by westofyou

He doesn’t, but then again other teams aren’t owned by thirty other individuals either. Maybe the Enquirer should focus on the ridiculous ownership structure and how that affects payroll

---

It's the market that affects payroll. Not the ownership structure. We've got a $100mill payroll in a rebuild yr. We're not the kind of market that can handle a top ten payroll

As Cincinnati sports fans, we’ve had a tough and mostly miserable run for approximately 30 years. But, if you grew up in Cincinnati like most of us probably did, it’s almost impossible to quit something that is part of you no matter how frustrated they make you feel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redhook

As Cincinnati sports fans, we’ve had a tough and mostly miserable run for approximately 30 years. But, if you grew up in Cincinnati like most of us probably did, it’s almost impossible to quit something that is part of you no matter how frustrated they make you feel.

---

Even if you grew up in Columbus & Dayton, moved out of state at age 8, out of country at 32, and have no other baseball fans in your life (let alone Reds fans), it's still almost impossible to quit...