Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

I’ve seen the payroll dumping, but I haven’t seen the smart yet. When is the smart going to start?

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

I appreciate the optimism, and won’t make fun of you for it. However, I don’t think FA hitters of much note will ever want to come to Cincinnati. Castellanos was a unicorn, perfect storm type situation. He wasn’t getting the kind of deal he wanted and the Reds came in and gave him a deal with good money and opt-outs after every season. It was a show-me contract with good insurance if he either got injured or fell off a cliff. Made sense for Cast. Rest is history. Other FA deals will either be signing over the hill hitters trying to recoup their value with GABP and overpays for aging players (like Moose).

Frankly, as much as I hate to say it, the “sustainability model” or whatever is really the only chance we have to see a winner. We have to be the Rays. It’s the only way in reality. I know, I know, #selltheteambob. But, even if Bob does sell its way more likely the next owner is just another Bob than it is Mark Cuban or like the dude that bought the Mets. It’s fantasy.

Again, not saying I like it, but I’m starting to think this is the only way.

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Castellanos also made the Griffey Jr mistake and thought the Reds were going to build a winning team.
However, he was smart enough to put opt outs in, so he was not stuck here the rest of his career on a below market contract.

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Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

Forget championships. If you think the numbers I showed above indicate success, have garnered respect around the league and trust that the current leadership suddenly knows how to run a team because they latched onto a new buzzword, rock on. I'm envious of the optimism.

Do I think a "Rays-like" model can be successful? Absolutely. Do I TRUST they can execute it? Nope. My trust bank is overdrawn with this crew. I'm at the "show me" stage

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We are closer to the Pirates and Marlins model than we are the Rays model.
Not as bad as Pirates/Marlins yet, we still have a few more peaks to level out.
I hope it does not get that bad. Those tanking years were awful and produced relatively little fruit.

1. baseball moves and money saving moves are not mutually exclusive. A move can arguably accomplish both goals.
2. There a certain level of BSery that goes into speaking to the public when in a corporate, public or political role. I don’t like it. But it’s the nature of the beast. Is it being less than honest or lying. Likely. But we’d be getting that regardless of who was in charge. It’s the GM and owner speak that was cited as lies. Yes, it’s lies, but to me it’s not material because it’s included in the level of BSery that would come from any ownership group
3. RTGs point about SS was valid to me because it wasn’t GM speak BSery. The Reds said they would do something and then did not. It appeared to be a material lie. The Reds did appear to be in on every SS at the time. Was the lie due to malice or incompetence in negotiating. To me each is bad but malice has a higher level of culpability. I lean towards incompetence.
4. Lying and incompetence are not the same thing.
5. It’s ok for the owners to make money.
6. Since 2010 I think the Reds have been generally honest about their plans and actions while not always being competent in the execution. Yes, they have engaged in GM speak, but so has every other organization or basically every other ownership group that could have come in here save a unicorn or two. That level of BS is to be expected. Show me a material lie in the overall plans of the club? They have added when they said they’d add, they’ve rebuilt when they have said they’d rebuild and have realigned resources when they have said they’d do that. Their execution doesn’t make them the most competent along that journey and yes the owner has made some money along the way and that’s ok.
7. Being wrong about a baseball decision doesn’t make you a liar.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

When? They arguably over extended the payroll in 2010-2013. The 2014-2018 rebuild, they were honest about, they just bungled a lot of the player deals. 2019 they said they were adding and they did. 2020 they said they were adding and they did. 2021 they had probably hit their payroll limit due to the lack of income over covid and built a pisser of a bullpen. 2022 they said they’d go this new course and they have.

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Many believe the upcoming season is going to be a long one. Krall says the team isn't in a rebuilding mode, but given the player movement you'd have a difficult time suggesting otherwise.

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If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

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In regard to another post you made…fruits of the rebuild. I get how the trades didn’t work but you gotta be kidding if you don’t think the prospects didnt. They account for a good hunk of the starters and guys that will be up and coming.

As far as this years team, somethings will have to break right. IMO namely Senzel and the young pitching. If that goes well, it’s plausible they’ll be in the same neighborhood as last years club.

Phil's still mesmerized by fidget spinners as well.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

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If I were to take the rosiest, most optimistic view. All of our new stable of starters will get healthy and be successful. So DJ picks the core and the Reds then take one or two of the remainders and turn them into a 5-tool corner OF to anchor the regular lineup. The realist in me thinks, "It's all going to Hell, another lost decade, they're doomed." :evil:

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

1. baseball moves and money saving moves are not mutually exclusive. A move can arguably accomplish both goals.
2. There a certain level of BSery that goes into speaking to the public when in a corporate, public or political role. I don’t like it. But it’s the nature of the beast. Is it being less than honest or lying. Likely. But we’d be getting that regardless of who was in charge. It’s the GM and owner speak that was cited as lies. Yes, it’s lies, but to me it’s not material because it’s included in the level of BSery that would come from any ownership group
3. RTGs point about SS was valid to me because it wasn’t GM speak BSery. The Reds said they would do something and then did not. It appeared to be a material lie. The Reds did appear to be in on every SS at the time. Was the lie due to malice or incompetence in negotiating. To me each is bad but malice has a higher level of culpability. I lean towards incompetence.
4. Lying and incompetence are not the same thing.
5. It’s ok for the owners to make money.
6. Since 2010 I think the Reds have been generally honest about their plans and actions while not always being competent in the execution. Yes, they have engaged in GM speak, but so has every other organization or basically every other ownership group that could have come in here save a unicorn or two. That level of BS is to be expected. Show me a material lie in the overall plans of the club? They have added when they said they’d add, they’ve rebuilt when they have said they’d rebuild and have realigned resources when they have said they’d do that. Their execution doesn’t make them the most competent along that journey and yes the owner has made some money along the way and that’s ok.
7. Being wrong about a baseball decision doesn’t make you a liar.

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You keep saying it’s ok if they make money except the only people that are saying otherwise are the Reds themselves.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

You keep saying it’s ok if they make money except the only people that are saying otherwise are the Reds themselves.

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File under owner speak BS. What owner is going to flat come out and say yeah we’re pocketing all the cash.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

6. Since 2010 I think the Reds have been generally honest about their plans and actions while not always being competent in the execution. Yes, they have engaged in GM speak, but so has every other organization or basically every other ownership group that could have come in here save a unicorn or two. That level of BS is to be expected. Show me a material lie in the overall plans of the club? They have added when they said they’d add, they’ve rebuilt when they have said they’d rebuild and have realigned resources when they have said they’d do that. Their execution doesn’t make them the most competent along that journey and yes the owner has made some money along the way and that’s ok.

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Lying an incompetence are not the same thing but they do result in the same thing. Distrust. And that's the problem with the adding, rebuilding and realigning resources. Did they do those things when it was best for the club? Absolutely not. So will they trade guys at the right time? Will they prudently spend the pay flex? Will they properly manage the young arms? Can Bob resist getting emotionally invested in certain players? This is not an easy endeavor they are pursuing

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

File under owner speak BS. What owner is going to flat come out and say yeah we’re pocketing all the cash.

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That's a straw man.

They said, "We're spending every penny we get from the fans on the team and will keep nothing. We'll break even."

That's a massive lie. Full stop.

They didn't have to say it, but they did. Repeatedly. It was ownerships' favorite lie of the past 15 years.

(BTW, those lies make them bad people.)

“There is no money in the game with salaries being too high.”

~ Aaron Stern - Reds Owner 1890

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

File under owner speak BS. What owner is going to flat come out and say yeah we’re pocketing all the cash.

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I’ve never heard another owner for any professional team say they put every dollar back into the team. This is literally only a Reds thing.

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Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

That's a straw man.

They said, "We're spending every penny we get from the fans on the team and will keep nothing. We'll break even."

That's a massive lie. Full stop.

They didn't have to say it, but they did. Repeatedly. It was ownerships' favorite lie of the past 15 years.

(BTW, those lies make them bad people.)

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It’s not a strawman. You’re going to get a certain level of BS from people in those type of positions. As far of what they’re spending and how…it might as well be Charlie Browns mother speaking to me. It’s verbal flatulence and immaterial to whether they have stuck to their over arching plans. Ie rebuild or not. They have been honest in that regard. To me, that’s what matters. I don’t give a rats butt about corporate speak crap. It’s their money. They can spend or not spend it how they see fit. To me the bigger issue is the competency in enacting the plans. They can spend every last penny and then some and if it’s not competent, it won’t matter. If they spend a pittance and do it well, they could win it all. That’s what matters to me. The were spending this or that sounds like wah wah wah to me because it’s likely immaterial BS especially when the Reds have spent more than enough to have a winning club in the non rebuild years. The issue isn’t what they are spending. It’s their competency in spending it. Acting like they aren’t spending enough is the typical grab a pitchfork scapegoat fans have when it’s rebuild time. And the corporate BS comments are used to counter that.

Yes, there were monetary concerns in the moves this off-season. However, to me this is the first time the Reds made the hard type of decision moves that need to be made IMO in a long time if ever. They have a ton of rising young talent and not a lot on the payroll in years to come. Despite the recent butthurt, the Reds will use that money in the coming years.