Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

2020 was the pandemic year. Actual payroll was $55 million

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So what? No one knew the pandemic was coming. They were geared up to pay that much in payroll. That was their plan

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

If the Reds aren't putting +45% of their revenue towards payroll, they aren't doing everything they can to win. I'm not sure how that's a controversial statement.

Using 2022 numbers, that means at least a $130 million payroll. Personally, I'm sure they can spend more, but that can be a debatable figure. The 45% isn't really debatable.

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Perhaps they can afford a little more but they can't afford Castellanos or Bauer. They also can't afford to be a top ten payroll. Their big problem is managing what money they do have.

Phil C is on WLW right now. Says that they lost $40 mill in 2020. Says that they've always outspent their market size

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Perhaps they can afford a little more but they can't afford Castellanos or Bauer. They also can't afford to be a top ten payroll. Their big problem is managing what money they do have.

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It sounds very much like they should just contract the team, since they are so poor and can't do anything.

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Phil C is on WLW right now. Says that they lost $40 mill in 2020. Says that they've always outspent their market size

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1. No they didn't.

2. No they haven't.

Opening Day > Defend Reds Ownership Day

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Phil C is on WLW right now. Says that they lost $40 mill in 2020. Says that they've always outspent their market size

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"Outspending the market size" is a relatively hard term to pin down, and maybe they do.

But whatever they lost in 2020 is (a) probably not entirely accurate and (b) irrelevant to a large degree, and it's cute you believe him. With no fans in the stands, no tickets sales, no concessions, no parking, etc, I can believe the pro-rated amount of player salary put them in the red as far as that goes. But that means they also just pocketed the large balloon payment you get every year from the MLB central fund (TV, digital, etc), and didn't count it towards baseball operations. Same as they do with concessions/parking/etc (anything other than tickets and TV rights) by claiming that "3rd party vendors" supply those services, and what flows back to the team isn't baseball revenue, it's a licensing deal.

Again, use your head: if you lost $40m in a year and were in danger of losing anything else in a normal (non-covid) year), you wouldn't keep the team, you'd sell it. Bob's not selling. Because he's not losing money. He's using accounting shenanigans to claim he is, but he's not actually.

That Phil C. WLW interview was something else. In a nutshell:

1) Fans shouldn't complain about the Reds sucking because "where else you gonna go?"

2) Fans should beware of hurting the Castellini's feelings too much because of veiled threats to move the team

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Originally Posted by StRedlegs900

Exactly. Making arguments based upon yearly dollar numbers rather than payroll as a percentage of overall revenue just doesn't move the conversation forward.

The fact of the matter is the Reds have the ability to spend a higher percentage of revenue on payroll, but they choose not to. It's pretty easy to glean without a full balance sheet, just knowing what other teams take in. It's frankly one of the main reasons for fan outrage recently IMO.

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Talking about percentage of revenue doesn’t move the conversation forward either. It’s just whining about wanting to spend money that the team hasn’t traditionally spent. It’s low hanging fruit in a rebuild year. The team has consistently spent more than enough to be competitive. The issue isn’t the dollar amount, it’s the competency and execution of the plan in spending that dollar amount.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Talking about percentage of revenue doesn’t move the conversation forward either. It’s just whining about wanting to spend money that the team hasn’t traditionally spent. It’s low hanging fruit in a rebuild year. The team has consistently spent more than enough to be competitive. The issue isn’t the dollar amount, it’s the competency and execution of the plan in spending that dollar amount.

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It’s both lol

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Talking about percentage of revenue doesn’t move the conversation forward either. It’s just whining about wanting to spend money that the team hasn’t traditionally spent.

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No, it's whining about the club not spending what it HAS traditionally spent. Which is why I've posted the percentage of revenue. It's also whining that they don't spend the money they have said they are saving to spend later, but never actually spend it.

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Originally Posted by FlightRick

"Outspending the market size" is a relatively hard term to pin down, and maybe they do.

But whatever they lost in 2020 is (a) probably not entirely accurate and (b) irrelevant to a large degree, and it's cute you believe him. With no fans in the stands, no tickets sales, no concessions, no parking, etc, I can believe the pro-rated amount of player salary put them in the red as far as that goes. But that means they also just pocketed the large balloon payment you get every year from the MLB central fund (TV, digital, etc), and didn't count it towards baseball operations. Same as they do with concessions/parking/etc (anything other than tickets and TV rights) by claiming that "3rd party vendors" supply those services, and what flows back to the team isn't baseball revenue, it's a licensing deal.

Again, use your head: if you lost $40m in a year and were in danger of losing anything else in a normal (non-covid) year), you wouldn't keep the team, you'd sell it. Bob's not selling. Because he's not losing money. He's using accounting shenanigans to claim he is, but he's not actually.

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Who said I believe him? I'm merely reporting what was said. I don't know have access to their books

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

It’s both lol

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I’d really get the they need to spend more stuff if they started consistently trotting out payrolls in the $50-$80 range after years of being in the $120-150. $120-$150 is more than enough to put a winner on the field in the NL central each year. I’d much rather see and discuss the Reds having a competent plan and sticking to it rather than complaining about money that would never be spent anyway.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

No, it's whining about the club not spending what it HAS traditionally spent. Which is why I've posted the percentage of revenue. It's also whining that they don't spend the money they have said they are saving to spend later, but never actually spend it.

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It’s one season dude. It’s a rebuild season. They will have a ton of money cleared off the books in the range that they normally spend in for the coming seasons. Recent history has showed us they’ll spend that money. It’s probably wise to see what younger guys solidify their roles instead of going crazy this season or you could very easily end up with expensive un-needed parts like Shogo, or what Moose could show himself to be this year. Now if they go into next year with a stupid low payroll and not add, I’ll be ticked unless the young kids show they are MLB worthy players that make up a winning team and you don’t need to go out and spend crazy money.

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

That Phil C. WLW interview was something else. In a nutshell:

1) Fans shouldn't complain about the Reds sucking because "where else you gonna go?"

2) Fans should beware of hurting the Castellini's feelings too much because of veiled threats to move the team

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I haven't seen a good interview yet of the Castellini's. They should point out :

1) You've only had 5 winning seasons since you bought the team. No playoff series wins. Why should fans believe what you're selling now?
2) Why do you have confidence in Nick Krall? What were his qualifications for being hired to be GM?
3) What were Dick Williams qualifications?

These kinds of questions are never asked

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Rich people aren't generally into being humble. That's not a personality trait common with folks worth $400 million

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I'm not asking them to be humble. I'm suggesting it's generally a bad idea to get into a public war of words with your fans so maybe consider faking it?

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

It’s one season dude. It’s a rebuild season. They will have a ton of money cleared off the books in the range that they normally spend in for the coming seasons. Recent history has showed us they’ll spend that money. It’s probably wise to see what younger guys solidify their roles instead of going crazy this season or you could very easily end up with expensive un-needed parts like Shogo, or what Moose could show himself to be this year. Now if they go into next year with a stupid low payroll and not add, I’ll be ticked unless the young kids show they are MLB worthy players that make up a winning team and you don’t need to go out and spend crazy money.

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It's not just one season, dude.

They tanked before and then didn't spend the payflex money, as I've shown multiple times now.


Also, coming off a year where they were above .500 and with a new playoff structure, this is a horrible year to cut back. But you know all this.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

It's not just one season, dude.

They tanked before and then didn't spend the payflex money, as I've shown multiple times now.


Also, coming off a year where they were above .500 and with a new playoff structure, this is a horrible year to cut back. But you know all this.

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With guys like Moustakas, Pham and Minor, what makes you think they'll spend another $20 mill any more wisely?

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I haven't seen a good interview yet of the Castellini's. They should point out :

1) You've only had 5 winning seasons since you bought the team. No playoff series wins. Why should fans believe what you're selling now?
2) Why do you have confidence in Nick Krall? What were his qualifications for being hired to be GM?
3) What were Dick Williams qualifications?

These kinds of questions are never asked

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Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

With guys like Moustakas, Pham and Minor, what makes you think they'll spend another $20 mill any more wisely?

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They need to be less cheap and smarter. It's not an either or situation.

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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Really great way to hype up opening day. They are such idiots.

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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Good lord.

fans get pissed off at cheap owners to the point they start buying billboards taunting them to sell the team…..



Hmmm wonder what the best course of action to respond to this would be?

Ah yes, better call them ungrateful and say there’s nothing more you could possibly do to compete. I’m sure that will calm the pissed off fanbase!

These people are brutally incompetent lmao

I don't think the Castellinis are dealing very well with #selltheteambob.

They just sent their representative onto the radio ON OPENING DAY to do his own quasi-billboard of #shutupandspendmoremoneyorwemovetheteam

GENIUS~! What the actual fr@ck is wrong with these people?

If they’re this pissed off about the billboard though, just goes to show how much it was worth every penny :cool:

As far as I'm concerned, he can Phil deez nuts...

As a longtime Bengals fan I know the futility of calling for an owner to sell the team. It's not happenin' and there's nothing you can do. In the case of the Reds, many fans thought Lindner was a bad/cheap owner and wanted him to sell. Well he did. Look what we ended up with

I just listened to the interview, and it's worse than it even looks in writing. Holy god, they are so bad at this.

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

As a longtime Bengals fan I know the futility of calling for an owner to sell the team. It's not happenin' and there's nothing you can do. In the case of the Reds, many fans thought Lindner was a bad/cheap owner and wanted him to sell. Well he did. Look what we ended up with

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Castellini is an upgrade on Linder all things considered. Doesn’t make either a great owner, just goes to show how low the bar is.


I know nothing we do is going to make them sell, but if Castellini and co are going to take a dump on Reds baseball like that, it at least feels good to publicly embarrass them to the point where they’re clearly very mad about it. Feels good man.

Scott Sloan is an idiot. I feel bad for Mo Egger, who is a good dude.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Castellini is an upgrade on Linder all things considered. Doesn’t make either a great owner, just goes to show how low the bar is.


I know nothing we do is going to make them sell, but if Castellini and co are going to take a dump on Reds baseball like that, it at least feels good to publicly embarrass them to the point where they’re clearly very mad about it. Feels good man.

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I have no problem with publicly embarrassing them or putting pressure on them. They should feel the heat

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

Scott Sloan is an idiot. I feel bad for Mo Egger, who is a good dude.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

As a longtime Bengals fan I know the futility of calling for an owner to sell the team. It's not happenin' and there's nothing you can do. In the case of the Reds, many fans thought Lindner was a bad/cheap owner and wanted him to sell. Well he did. Look what we ended up with

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part of the problem is a lot of cincinnati pro sports fans (casual fans) think the reds' ownership situation is the same as the bengals'. however, they are far from the same. castellini only owns 15% of the reds (which makes him the majority owner, but that's a pretty damn low percentage for a majority owner). mike brown owns 100% of the bengals. unless mark cuban comes in and buys out all of the shareholders of the reds, nothing is going to change. some other schlub would become "majority owner" and they would keep costs down so they could pocket money for them and rest of the 100 people in the ownership group.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

I just listened to the interview, and it's worse than it even looks in writing. Holy god, they are so bad at this.

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where did you find it?

Looking forward to Matthew McConaughey playing Phil Castellini in "How to Lose a Fan Base in 30 Days"

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Originally Posted by JFLegal

part of the problem is a lot of cincinnati pro sports fans (casual fans) think the reds' ownership situation is the same as the bengals'. however, they are far from the same. castellini only owns 15% of the reds (which makes him the majority owner, but that's a pretty damn low percentage for a majority owner). mike brown owns 100% of the bengals. unless mark cuban comes in and buys out all of the shareholders of the reds, nothing is going to change. some other schlub would become "majority owner" and they would keep costs down so they could pocket money for them and rest of the 100 people in the ownership group.

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The majority owner does set the direction though, even with that share. There’s a reason they did actually spend more at some point once Lindner sold them the team.


At the very least, if the majority owner is out there saying this kind of appalling BS, they’re definitely part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

It's not just one season, dude.

They tanked before and then didn't spend the payflex money, as I've shown multiple times now.


Also, coming off a year where they were above .500 and with a new playoff structure, this is a horrible year to cut back. But you know all this.

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The Reds made heavy investments in analytics, scouting, minor leagues and international players in the rebuild years. You’re not considering a chunk of the payflex could have gone there. In 2020, if my sources are accurate, the Reds went into the season with the largest payroll in team history.

It was the perfect time to do the rebuild. They barely went .500 with a near maxed payroll, FA that were never coming back, significant bloat on the roster, and guys that had career years, with one, Miley, who will likely never come close to that again. All of this while an extremely talented young core was emerging at in the minors and mlb. It was a perfect situation for a reset to younger, cheaper more athletic talent while opening up money on the books in the coming years to supplement that talent. The Reds were caught in a situation where they would have to near tap out their payroll year to year to finish near .500. I want better than that. For once I think the Reds said no mas, cut their usual sentimentality that makes their plans go haywire and cut the chord on some fan favorites in order to create a more sustainable winning product in the future.

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Originally Posted by JFLegal

where did you find it?

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

The Reds made heavy investments in analytics, scouting, minor leagues and international players in the rebuild years. You’re not considering a chunk of the payflex could have gone there. In 2020, if my sources are accurate, the Reds went into the season with the largest payroll in team history.

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Let's pretend that 2020 was a normal year, and not COVID related, and that they raised their 2019 revenue about 10%, which has been the norm during normal years. That would have given them $303 million in revenue for 2020. A $147 million payroll is 48%, which isn't even the highest it's been during the Castellini years (they've gone up to 50% a couple of times). So no, a $147 million payroll isn't the highest it's even been, based on revenue. It's roughly what they were spending back in 2015-2016. In other words, it's about what they should be doing. I'm not sure how much credit they should get for spending what they should be spending anyway.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

Scott Sloan is an idiot. I feel bad for Mo Egger, who is a good dude.

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The WLW commercials for their daily shows are the pinnacle of bad radio

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Originally Posted by westofyou

The WLW commercials for their daily shows are the pinnacle of bad radio

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oh some of the hosts are brutal too. scott sloan. rocky boiman, several others.