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The odds of the Reds trading for a true impact bat or acquiring one via FA are virtually nil for this offseason.
I'm not saying Alonso is definitely the one to fill that void, but the Reds are pretty much down to that.
The only other way the Reds could possibly improve the offense in such a way as to contend next season would be get a bunch of lesser guys to have career years all at once.
I personally don't think there's a chance that the hold up is a spot on the 40-man. It's quite simple, the Reds don't want to pay an unknown talent 7 million. He's not taken a single big league or minor league swing with a wood bat. I hope they don't do it. It sets a VERY bad precedent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
The Reds don't set precedents. Except for failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_
IT IS LOOKING more and more like No. 1 draft pick Yonder Alonso won’t sign with the Reds. They have until midnight Friday to sign him. If they don’t, he goes back into the draft pool for next year.
Alonso reportedly wants a $7 million deal and a major-league contract that would put him on the 40-man roster. The Reds are offering $2.5 million and no major-league contract - and that’s about as far apart as opposite ends of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.
Alonso is threatening to return to the University of Miami for his senior year or to spend the rest of the summer and the first part of next year playing independent league baseball.
Alonso said the Reds knew what he wanted when they drafted him and wonder why they went ahead and did it if they thought it would come to this.
Sort of reminds me of 2001 when the Reds drafted pitcher Jeremy Sowers No. 1. Sowers made it clear he was going to attend Vanderbilt University and would not sign if drafted. The Reds had no money for a No. 1 draft pick that year so they drafted Sowers, knowing he wouldn’t sign.
Then they told fans, “Hey, we made a good pick, but he wouldn’t sign.”
Maybe that’s the case this year, too. Who knows? I do know that it was a strange pick, in that Joey Votty is a young first baseman and there are some first base prospects in the system and some scouts believe that Alonzo is, “a bad body type who can only play first base and can only hit. He does nothing else.”
It reminds some of the year the Reds drafted first baseman Simone Peters when they could have drafted Lance Berkman because they thought Peters would hit 50 homers a year. As one man said, “Peters never made it out of ‘A’ ball and Berkman is on his way to the Hall of Fame.”
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs...incinnatireds/
the reds just flat out don't want him..
and even though I like Yonder over Beckham, it is just stupid, with Beckham having signed for 2.6
It's beginning to look more and more like the Reds didn't want him in the first place.
Wonderful draft, once again. Have the Reds had a good draft since 98?
The 2007 draft was rated among the best. IIRC on draft day '07 one of the BA guys said they liked the Reds draft the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
Jocketty and Reynolds should be embarrassed. Pathetic.
Castellini needs to get in their ears over this.
I certainly hope we get three Conines for the price of one Alonso. More = better.
Why should they be embarrassed? Because a kid actually stuck to his predraft demands unlike nearly everyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
They should have known he was going to cost more than $3 million freakin' bucks. Heck, that kind of cash doesn't get you in the door anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
but to be so far offQuote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
2.5 with no ML contract, really Reds?! if they were at about 4 mil with an ML contract I wouldn't be that concerned, but 2.5!?
What gets me is the Reds knew Alonso was asking for the moon and still drafted him despite Beckham still being on the board. Nearly everyone thought Beckham to the Reds was a lock. I get the feeling the Reds punted this pick.
Uh, yes it does. See Gordon Beckham. See nearly every #7 draft pick in the history of baseball. Someone needs to step up and set up mandatory slotting. You get where you were drafted. Period. Don't like it? Go back to school and get drafted higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
I have little interest in Beckham.
The Reds drafted the right player; they just got small-brained when it came time to pay the tab.
plenty of time to make a deal
but both sides have to want it
if I'm the Reds, I don't go above what Matusz got from the Os at #4
Alonso's a 1B, not a pitcher or catcher
Which is why I don't even offer what Matusz got. Matusz is a much better prospect than Alonso is, why should Alonso get as much?Quote:
Originally Posted by lollipopcurve
Because he's closer to the majors.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
Is he? Really? I wouldn't be so sure, and even with that said, I don't think that should come into play into how much money someone gets. Sorry, if you go #7 overall, you don't get 7 million bucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
I think I read that Matusz will get 3.1 and a major league deal. I'm assuming the Reds like Alonso, so going half a mill over Beckham's 2.6 plus a major league deal seems more than fair to me. If Alonso thinks he's like Posey and deserves a real outlier contract inside the top 10, he's wrong, in my opinion.Quote:
Which is why I don't even offer what Matusz got. Matusz is a much better prospect than Alonso is, why should Alonso get as much?
Brett Wallace, who the Cards got at #13, may end up a better a hitter than YA, I think.
If the Reds are only offering $2.5 million, the need to up the ante. I'm sure we'll get official figures soon enough, but $2.5 is too low. They should be offering a minimum of 3-3.5 and I'd probably go as high as 4, but 4 max.
The Reds are offering slot money. So I don't exactly blame them for standing their ground. I would also max out at 4 mill, but I don't think that gets it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1
Seeing as how they are paying Dusty Baker $3.5M and Corey Patterson $3M, you'd think they could come up with an extra 500K to a Million, especially when you consider they just saved some coin in the Dunn and Griffey trades.
The Reds are real close to entering Bungaldom and the whole baseball world is waiting to see how they handle this dilemma.
Beckham received more (at a lower pick) than what the Reds are offering Alonso. Does that not scream cheap? I'd be discouraged too if I were Alonso.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
Maybe they plan to go up to $4 tomorrow. I don't know if 4 will or will not get it done, but 4 sure sounds a lot better than 2.5, especially if you're Alonso.
I still dont understand why Alonso of Smoak... espically now
Don't worry, we're not willing to pay a possible big prospect half of what we're paying for a closer with a 4.5 ERA who only has about a 75% success rate.
Man this franchise continues to get dumber and dumber.
Bout sums it up, honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS
Walt Jocketty made it sound like if Yonder Alonso doersn't come off his hard stance Alonso will not be a Red.
“We’re hopefully,” Jocketty said. “We’ve worked pretty hard on it (Wednesday). We’ll continue to work on it up to the deadline.
“But they’ve given us one number. We’re not going to negotiate against ourselves.”
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com
Beckham got more than slot. Even if the Reds got 600,000 over slot, its not going to get the job done. Bascially, Alonso is asking for 4.5 million more than the 2.5 million slot money. Thats ridiculous. Plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1
Wow that was fast, posted and then after it refreshes already got a response. LOL. I thought I was just buzzed off these Icehouse's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
My guess is the Reds are the only team who doesn't sign their first pick.
Nationals aren't going to either. Crow already signed with the Ft Worth Cats. His agent called Bowden yesterday and Bowden said they had nothing to talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
Attaboy, Walt. Alonso's move. If they sit on their number and don't negotiate, good riddance. Yonder can go play celebrity sidekick at ARod's.Quote:
“But they’ve given us one number. We’re not going to negotiate against ourselves.”
I read people saying we would get two top 10 picks next year if he doesn't sign? Can someone explain compensation on this to me?
I applaud Walt for this. He's taking the strong position; it shows he's an experienced negotiator. I think we have seen the end of ridiculous contracts that tie up the organization for years. You always have to be willing to walk away. This may be the time.
Some good company to be in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
well if we dont don;t sign him we get the 7b. or really the 8th overall pick next year. and for the other pick, that is just the normal pick which looks like it will be a top 10Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS
I don't disagree with the premise here, but the Reds need to up the ante. If they're offering $2.5 when the pick behind the Reds is getting more, that's a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
I assume that's the plan, but it will come to fruition tomorrow.
If Alonso and his agent are unwilling to back off the $7 million, they seriously need to tell him to take a hike. He's not Josh Beckett or Rick Porcello.
PITTSBURGH -- The Reds appeared willing to meet one of first-round Draft pick Yonder Alonso's demands, but still remained far apart during contract negotiations on Thursday. Alonso, the No. 7 overall pick in this year's Draft out of the University of Miami, is reportedly seeking $7 million. That's been a sticking point for the Reds.
The 22-year-old first baseman also wants a Major League contract, which would require Alonso to be placed on the Reds' 40-man roster. Cincinnati is more willing to budge on that issue.
"That's something very important to him. It's something we will consider," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said.
Major League clubs have until a midnight ET Friday deadline to sign players they drafted, or they lose the rights.
Jocketty, scouting director Chris Buckley and assistant GM Bob Miller are negotiating for the club with agent Greg Genske, who is serving as Alonso's advisor. Genske did not return calls seeking comment.
"I spent most of the day today dealing with it," Jocketty said of the talks. "I thought we made progress, but we're still a long ways apart. I'm waiting for them to come back to us. They haven't come off of their number."
The Reds are believed to trying to keep Alonso's contract close to the slot-system figure of $3 million.
Both sides have contingencies that help their leverage. Alonso has publicly said he's willing to return for his senior season at Miami or play in an independent league. The Reds would get a first-round compensation pick next year in the No. 8 overall spot, plus their original pick.
"Right now, I'd say it's 50-50," Jocketty said of the chances the Reds would be able to sign Alonso.
from reds.com
If we got two top ten picks next year, which it looks like, then I can see why we don't care too much about getting picks for Dunn.