Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

Let's pretend that 2020 was a normal year, and not COVID related, and that they raised their 2019 revenue about 10%, which has been the norm during normal years. That would have given them $303 million in revenue for 2020. A $147 million payroll is 48%, which isn't even the highest it's been during the Castellini years (they've gone up to 50% a couple of times). So no, a $147 million payroll isn't the highest it's even been, based on revenue. It's roughly what they were spending back in 2015-2016. In other words, it's about what they should be doing. I'm not sure how much credit they should get for spending what they should be spending anyway.

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$147M is the highest dollar amount of a payroll. You know that. I knew that. And you know that’s what I meant. They generally spend what like 45-50% of revenue on payroll? For whatever reason they don’t spend more. I really don’t care what they reason is, whether they are reinvesting it, or pocketing it. Reality is, that’s the range they’ll likely spend in. It’s more important to spend that competently. It’s about as low hanging fruit as you can get in a rebuild year to scream the owner is cheap. No matter how rich you are, you have budgetary constraints. If the Reds are legit about this plan and stick to it, I think it’ll mean good things. Their back won’t be to the wall constantly payroll wise in hopes of a 500 or so finish. That level could be the baseline which they could add with the money they took off the books.

I wish the Reds could and would spend like drunken sailors, but it just isn’t going to happen. We can percentage of this and that all day. Bottom line is, they generally spend more than enough money to be a contender. In order to be that contender they need to do so competently with a sustainable plan. Seeing some fan favorites go sucks. Winker was one of my favorite players. But if the Reds can see the new model through, they can build a long term winner. And I like winning more than any single player.

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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I listened to the interview and that’s what it sounds like, especially “careful what you wish for.” No one’s in the mood to parse his words in his defense or even ease up the pressure in the slightest, but I think he was talking about ownership in “where you going to go” not that the fans have no choice. Earlier they talked about how great it was that Cincinnati has three major leagues, and the team has to compete for the fans’ attention with their phones. This part seemed to be — Las Vegas, Nashville, we don’t want that, fans don’t want that, we’re not going anywhere. Later he says something like “if you don’t win, they won’t show up.” That should be the only thing to say about that topic, and it should drive everything they do.

Now, it’s possible that he says sort-of the right things most of the time but surly instincts show through in glimpses.

Maybe the Reds should sign Sean Casey to be the ambassador of the franchise.

As someone who has primarily defended the Castellini's during their tenure, even when they have made it really tough to do so Phil made a massive mistake today and they need their PR team to get on that ASAP. To say "where you gonna go?" and talk about relocation is about as stupid of a comment that one could make, and a direct slap in the face to fans. Phil probably needs to stay behind the scenes for a while after that interview.

As someone who thought the billboard idea was initially stupid, Phil's comments today make me want to donate.

This Phil guy is an absolute idiot. The personification of a billionaire's kid.

Yeah, who would want to buy a lucrative business like a baseball team that continues to just print money.

The Reds messaging is a prime example of an antiquated business voice in dire need of 21st century coaching

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Originally Posted by westofyou

The Reds messaging is a prime example of an antiquated business voice in dire need of 21st century coaching

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https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...697607b7871-lq
Actual Red ownership (with Old School 1983 behind)

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Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...697607b7871-lq
Actual Red ownership (with Old School 1983 behind)

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Potter was out of touch incompetent. I’d not be standing behind that.

I didn’t realize saying spend the money that we know you will spend and do so competently was such a bad take. Asking to change something that is possible to change…competence level….is much more realistic than getting in an argument with Charlie Brown’s mom or yelling at a cloud about something they likely won’t…percentage of revenue going to payroll.

The Reds have spent more than enough money to produce a winner. Especially in this division. Spend the money wisely and make smart player moves to build a sustainable winner. That’s realistic. Yelling at them to spend more is an exercise in banging your head against the wall hoping to tear the wall down rather than getting a concussion.

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Originally Posted by BCubb2003

I listened to the interview and that’s what it sounds like, especially “careful what you wish for.” No one’s in the mood to parse his words in his defense or even ease up the pressure in the slightest, but I think he was talking about ownership in “where you going to go” not that the fans have no choice. Earlier they talked about how great it was that Cincinnati has three major leagues, and the team has to compete for the fans’ attention with their phones. This part seemed to be — Las Vegas, Nashville, we don’t want that, fans don’t want that, we’re not going anywhere. Later he says something like “if you don’t win, they won’t show up.” That should be the only thing to say about that topic, and it should drive everything they do.

Now, it’s possible that he says sort-of the right things most of the time but surly instincts show through in glimpses.

Maybe the Reds should sign Sean Casey to be the ambassador of the franchise.

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I think it shows how the Castellini's unearned belief in their own exceptionalism adversely affects the franchise. We've heard the stories about Bob's "suggestions" about baseball operations. Phil made about every gaffe possible in that interview, coming across as completely adversarial.

And I have no idea what to make of this "interview" between Sadak and Bob C: https://twitter.com/NoContextReds/st...18756573130752

Bob doesn't seem 100% cogent reading his (clearly prepared) remarks.

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Originally Posted by FlightRick

Again, use your head: if you lost $40m in a year and were in danger of losing anything else in a normal (non-covid) year), you wouldn't keep the team, you'd sell it. Bob's not selling. Because he's not losing money. He's using accounting shenanigans to claim he is, but he's not actually.

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I agree with everything you say. I will add this.. if the Reds were just breaking even, losing money or just modestly- profitable, why has the frnachise appreciated to 3-4 times the value of what it was purchased for? Maybe I have those numbers wrong, but it has dramatically gone up in value. That alone says it is a very profitable investment. Sad to see Bob C using tactics like Lindner and Allen used to use when whining about what a poor small market they are, blah blah blah..

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

That Phil C. WLW interview was something else. In a nutshell:

1) Fans shouldn't complain about the Reds sucking because "where else you gonna go?"

2) Fans should beware of hurting the Castellini's feelings too much because of veiled threats to move the team

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When the Reds come to the taxpayers , saying that the GAB is too old for them to "compete", I hope everyone tells the Reds to build their own new stadium then, without help from the taxpayers. As far as the threat to move? Who really cares at this point? If ownership is resigned to never trying to win, what's the point if they tank in Cincy or Nashville?
At this point, the Reds are a net drain on Cincy, not a benefit.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

I agree with everything you say. I will add this.. if the Reds were just breaking even, losing money or just modestly- profitable, why has the frnachise appreciated to 3-4 times the value of what it was purchased for? Maybe I have those numbers wrong, but it has dramatically gone up in value. That alone says it is a very profitable investment. Sad to see Bob C using tactics like Lindner and Allen used to use when whining about what a poor small market they are, blah blah blah..

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The ownership group bought the Reds for $270 million in 2006 ($385 million in 2022 money), and Forbes has it worth about $1.2 billion, so it's gone up about 3 times in 2022 dollars.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

When the Reds come to the taxpayers , saying that the GAB is too old for them to "compete", I hope everyone tells the Reds to build their own new stadium then, without help from the taxpayers. As far as the threat to move? Who really cares at this point? If ownership is resigned to never trying to win, what's the point if they tank in Cincy or Nashville?
At this point, the Reds are a net drain on Cincy, not a benefit.

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If the Reds moved you’d cry yourself to sleep over it. We all would.

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Originally Posted by Wayne Krivsky

As someone who thought the billboard idea was initially stupid, Phil's comments today make me want to donate.

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Yup, this was the exact reason for the billboard and why I didn't hesitate to donate. I honestly didn't think it would shed such a glaring light on the incompetency of the front office to this degree. I never even expected a public response, but was just happy knowing Bob would be mumbling about it behind closed doors.

That interview was something else. I'm so sick of the "smallest market" rhetoric that they continually throw around as well. Just absolutely maddening. Invest in a good product for more than one year without throwing in the towel, and the fans will be there.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Potter was out of touch incompetent. I’d not be standing behind that.

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Yeah, you are.

Castellini today said, basically, like it or lump it. I'll keep as much of the money you give me as I want. If you don't like it, tough. I'll move the team if enough of you think that way.

That's both out of touch and incompetent.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

The ownership group bought the Reds for $270 million in 2006 ($385 million in 2022 money), and Forbes has it worth about $1.2 billion, so it's gone up about 3 times in 2022 dollars.

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How much of that is in their pockets until they sell the team? None. Do you know if they’ve borrowed against that? If they have what percentage of revenue is covering the loan? If they haven’t, the current estimated value of the team means nothing in dollars and cents spent on the Reds or in ownerships pocket unless they sell.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

If the Reds moved you’d cry yourself to sleep over it. We all would.

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Nah.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

How much of that is in their pockets until they sell the team? None. Do you know if they’ve borrowed against that? If they have what percentage of revenue is covering the loan? If they haven’t, the current estimated value of the team means nothing in dollars and cents spent on the Reds or in ownerships pocket unless they sell.

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This is the logical fallacy appeal to ignorance. It presupposes that the poster's claim must be true because there is no evidence against it.

A logical fallacy is an error in logic.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

If the Reds moved you’d cry yourself to sleep over it. We all would.

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Nope , I wouldn't. Maybe in the past I would have, but now , I don't care.
I haven't watched even one pitch of Reds baseball this year yet. Maybe I Will later this year, but right now, I don't care.
Redszone is my last connection to the team.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Nope , I wouldn't. Maybe in the past I would have, but now , I don't care.
I haven't watched even one pitch of Reds baseball this year yet. Maybe I Will later this year, but right now, I don't care.
Redszone is my last connection to the team.

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Ditto.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Nope , I wouldn't. Maybe in the past I would have, but now , I don't care.
I haven't watched even one pitch of Reds baseball this year yet. Maybe I Will later this year, but right now, I don't care.
Redszone is my last connection to the team.

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That's too similar to hanging out a record store and not listening to music for me.

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Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Yeah, you are.

Castellini today said, basically, like it or lump it. I'll keep as much of the money you give me as I want. If you don't like it, tough. I'll move the team if enough of you think that way.

That's both out of touch and incompetent.

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Have you ever considered the flip side of what you’re saying. What if they were telling the truth and invested every penny back in the organization? What if they did take loans out against the value of the team and don’t want to publicly say that. What if COVID did hurt them financially and they had to cut back? If any of that is true, yeah, I can understand if Phil is a little pissed and standoffish. You’ve assumed they were lying from go. You likely didn’t consider, what if they aren’t.

IMO that’s all noise anyway. But if I was so concerned about it, instead of putting up billboards that say sell the team, I’d be asking them to show the books. Hamilton county tax payers pay for their house. Show us how you’re maintaining it.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

How much of that is in their pockets until they sell the team? None. Do you know if they’ve borrowed against that? If they have what percentage of revenue is covering the loan? If they haven’t, the current estimated value of the team means nothing in dollars and cents spent on the Reds or in ownerships pocket unless they sell.

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Eh, that's kinda how the rich continue to generate their wealth though. They never have cash sitting anywhere, it's tied up in equity. Even if they have taken out loans against the value of the team, the rate of increase in value of the Reds is almost certain to exceed the interest of that loan.

Why are they so bad at messaging?

I'm sure there are worse things he could have said on Opening Day, like admitting to murder, but this is maybe Top 5 worst things to say today.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

That's too similar to hanging out a record store and not listening to music for me.

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If anyone else still wants to follow the Reds, I'm not going to shame them. I'm genuinely glad that you and some others are still interested.
That part of me has died though <-- yes being overly dramatic, but it's true.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

The Reds have spent more than enough money to produce a winner. Especially in this division. Spend the money wisely and make smart player moves to build a sustainable winner.

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They have spent the 4th most in the division this year. They are spending less than last year when they finished 3rd in the division. I don't know that they've "spent more than enough to produce a winner", especially in this division.

NM

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Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

This is the logical fallacy appeal to ignorance. It presupposes that the poster's claim must be true because there is no evidence against it.

A logical fallacy is an error in logic.

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Well duh lack of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. But it’s pretty common knowledge you don’t receive money for a capital gain until the gain is realized via a sale of the asset. The only way to get dollars out of it is either to operate it to a profit or borrow against its value. Sure, he doesn’t know if they’ve borrowed. That was the point. Unless we have access to their actual books, complaining about them being able to spend more is nonsense. We know what they spend a year on payroll. We know that’s enough to compete and win the division. Spend the money competently and quit whining about things we have no real details of. If they were spending like 50-70 million a year. I’d be going nuts with you. That’s really not enough unless you hit on damn near every decision. They’re 120-150 most years. That should get you there in the Nl Central if you spend wisely

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Nope , I wouldn't. Maybe in the past I would have, but now , I don't care.
I haven't watched even one pitch of Reds baseball this year yet. Maybe I Will later this year, but right now, I don't care.
Redszone is my last connection to the team.

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by NachoMan

Here is the interview: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/eddie...podcast_widget

To be fair Mo Egger does basically ask your point 1 exactly at 6:18 of the interview. Phil then blames the fans for not buying enough season tickets.

10:12 they ask about fans losing faith, Phil responds by saying fans have no choice, "Well where you gonna go?" "What would you do to this team to make it more competitive? It would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else. Be careful what you ask for."

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DEAR LORD - he's the absolute worst.

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Originally Posted by bing

They have spent the 4th most in the division this year. They are spending less than last year when they finished 3rd in the division. I don't know that they've "spent more than enough to produce a winner", especially in this division.

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The frightening thing is when the Cubs wake up and start spending their money. This was the year to go for it, because when the Cubs decide to start acting like a large market club again, that's going to be the end of the Brewers and the Reds.

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Originally Posted by bing

They have spent the 4th most in the division this year. They are spending less than last year when they finished 3rd in the division. I don't know that they've "spent more than enough to produce a winner", especially in this division.

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Look at years where they aren’t rebuilding. Plus under that logic teams like the Rays would be buried forever. It’s completely possible to not be a huge slender and win

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Look at years where they aren’t rebuilding. Plus under that logic teams like the Rays would be buried forever. It’s completely possible to not be a huge slender and win

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The fact that they “rebuild” so often is the problem

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

The fact that they “rebuild” so often is the problem

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...and just pocket the savings from the tanking years.


Why anyone would think that this rebuild will be the one that works is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

The fact that they “rebuild” so often is the problem

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That goes back to incompetent decision making and the inability to stick with a plan. I agree with you there.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

That goes back to incompetent decision making and the inability to stick with a plan. I agree with you there.

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It’s not just that though. Not limited to just the Reds, tanking and doing these lengthy teardown “rebuilds” across MLB are teams being cheap and doing so for economic reasons even more so than they’re doing it for competitive ones.

I am literally laughing over Castellini having done that on OPENING DAY of all times.

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Originally Posted by membengal

I am literally laughing over Castellini having done that on OPENING DAY of all times.

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We’re turning into the Springtime for Hitler of baseball teams

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Originally Posted by membengal

I am literally laughing over Castellini having done that on OPENING DAY of all times.

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Unforced error, to say the least.

How is one of the dumbest people in Cincinnati the mouthpiece for the entire Reds franchise? Unbelievable they keep rolling him out there.

Next billboard:

#enoughwiththenepotismbob

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Originally Posted by Mitri

How is one of the dumbest people in Cincinnati the mouthpiece for the entire Reds franchise? Unbelievable they keep rolling him out there.

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Phil seems like t classic case of a rich guy being born on third and thinking he hit a triple.