Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

Big picture generalization:

We should be run like the Cleveland Indians*. They trade away players nearing big paychecks for highly sought after prospects. The Reds trade prospects for those players nearing free agency. See Choo and Bauer. In the end, Cleveland enjoys more sustained success despite a lower payroll. I think Krall and Co see that and are making the necessary moves to make that happen. I'm not impressed with the return so far. We've gotten 2 sore armed pitchers and some very young pitchers which is always a crap shoot. The Reds traded young players on the verge of the major leagues in the Bauer, Choo and the Mat Latos deal. That has to stop. It's not sustainable for us to trade such prospects. Latos, Bauer and Choo are long gone while guys like Trammell, Gregorius, Grandal and Boxberger are still playing and had long careers

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

I would have kept Miley , Gray and Winker. Maybe Suarez..
Gray and Miley wouldn't have blocked Greene or Lodollo.. Right now we have Vlad and San Martin in the rotation (I think).
The rotation could have been Castillo, Mahle, Gray, Lodollo and Greene.
It usually takes more than 5 starting pitchers to make it through a season.
One of Lodollo or Greene could have pitched in relief this season.
I can understand Barnhart and Castanallos not coming back, and I applaud Shogo getting cut.

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So you’re paying 10M for Miley to pitch out of the pen? Why? Vlad earned a shot to start last year. He needs to be in there so you’re not paying 10m for your 4-5 starter in the next 5 years. You’re stunting that potential growth for Miley? The only reason SanMartin is in the rotation is injury. And as much as some people want top starting prospects to come out of the pen, it’s not 1985 anymore. Put them in the rotation and roll. Suarez was a must go. Idec if he bounces back. It wasn’t happening here and he’s been an anchor the past 2 seasons.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Here's the reason why Hamilton County builds stadiums, real estate

Look at the Reds ownership group a huge amount of them are in venture capital and real estate. People don't build stadiums anymore they build entertainment complexes with restaurants and shopping and other destinations. The county buys into it because it drives business to town and increases their tax base and the property values of the area around the stadium. The county has dipped their toe in this model three times in the last 55 years and its paid off for them, enhancing a former rough and tumble working riverfront into a destination area for consumers.

Developers love this stuff, they hire groups to grease the skids and promise political pawns that the growth will propel their aspirations as well

It's all about money, not baseball

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

moving the Reds would require litigating against the State of Ohio re: "Modell's Law." Major League Soccer thought better of their chances on that front a few years back when they decided to leave the Columbus Crew in place and just award Austin an expansion spot instead of a relocated franchise.

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IANAL, but I don't think the Modell Law would stand up in Federal court. It would be seen by the court as interfering with interstate commerce. The first team to challenge it will have to deal with the time and expense it takes to make the Federal case. MLS probably backed off, because it didn't want to create ill will against a state government while also planting a new franchise in another city in that state. The Guardians owner might not be excited about that notion, either.

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Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

My issues with the Reds isn't as much who they got rid of it's with the guys they're trying to sell us. Tommy Pham and Jake Fraley aren't major league players and they're getting defacto starting time so far this season and that's not likely to change. They don't understand windows and timing on trades with regards to player value and when it's at it's highest. You can't build a perpetual winner by a good minor league system simply on drafting. You have to continually reload it by trading some of your top MLB players when thier value is at it's peak. I have zero confidence that the bumbling stumbling Nick Krall can get the job done, especially with impulsive owners that are constantly waffling on being in or out. It's total ineptness, and it's a shame for the young core of this team that it's going to be wasted just like the young core of players they had back in the early 2010's.

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This all day long. Joey Votto deserved better. And to tell the fanbase to stfu and take it? Nah, I'm good.

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

My issues with the Reds isn't as much who they got rid of it's with the guys they're trying to sell us. Tommy Pham and Jake Fraley aren't major league players and they're getting defacto starting time so far this season and that's not likely to change. They don't understand windows and timing on trades with regards to player value and when it's at it's highest. You can't build a perpetual winner by a good minor league system simply on drafting. You have to continually reload it by trading some of your top MLB players when thier value is at it's peak. I have zero confidence that the bumbling stumbling Nick Krall can get the job done, especially with impulsive owners that are constantly waffling on being in or out. It's total ineptness, and it's a shame for the young core of this team that it's going to be wasted just like the young core of players they had back in the early 2010's.

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Pham and Fraely are MLB players.

People posted all last year that Geno no longer was too

I'm thinking the later might be truer than the former at this stage myself

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Originally Posted by NebraskaRed

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Sitcom snafu funny, tone deaf as hell.

A moment that will follow him around until he dies, it will be in his obituary

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Big picture generalization:

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Doesn't matter. The franchise cannot achieve success if they chart a new course every other off-season. They don't have the courage to actually hold a course and the eventual answer is always "cash it all in and start from scratch." We're going to win with a team of softball sluggers or with pitching and defense or a stellar rotation or with kids or with vets or with balance.

The words and intentions don't matter when they change every couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

So you’re paying 10M for Miley to pitch out of the pen? Why? Vlad earned a shot to start last year. He needs to be in there so you’re not paying 10m for your 4-5 starter in the next 5 years. You’re stunting that potential growth for Miley? The only reason SanMartin is in the rotation is injury. And as much as some people want top starting prospects to come out of the pen, it’s not 1985 anymore. Put them in the rotation and roll. Suarez was a must go. Idec if he bounces back. It wasn’t happening here and he’s been an anchor the past 2 seasons.

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No, Vlad, Greene, or Lodollo could pitch out of the pen. If they all outpitch Miley (which I doubt), then yea, you can move Miley to the pen or trade him, instead of giving him to the Cubs for free. Plenty of young pitchers have started in the bullpen. Lodollo and Greene probably have an innings cap anyhow. You could have started the year with Greene in the rotation and Lodollo in the pen, and then swapped them later in the year. It's literally impossible to have "Too much good pitching".
And San Martin being in the rotation proves my point. The Reds are very thin in the rotation. It takes more than 5 starters to make it through a season. They could have gone into the season planning to have a kid in the bullpen, then moved him to the rotation when Castillo was hurt.
10 million for Miley is a bargain in today's world, even if he regresses to a 2 WAR pitcher. Spending it on Miley is better than buying the retreads the Reds acquired and/or putting more money into Phil and Bob's pockets.

The worst part about this for me personally, is that I have an 8 year old who is ate up with sports, and 17 year old who has accompanied me on road trips to 13 different parks. We spent the winter going to PBS and made memories that will last a life time... They'll never forget the KC game. So at risk of not going full Chris Carpenter here, I have a difficult time explaining to him (8 year old) why I'm ticked off at the Reds and why they are trading players like Winker. We went to multiple games last summer, he loved it... I took the oldest to Wrigley to watch them and we had a blast (along with a ton of TV time). They both are excited about making trips to GABP, and all I want to do is not give Bob a dime. I will relent because I don't want to take something away that we enjoy so much together. But man, Phil's comments yesterday burn right through me as I prepare to spend 2-3+ hundred dollars on weekend to trip to the park this summer. I'd much rather take them to PNC just so Bob doesn't directly get my money. It's truly infuriating.

Anyone want to guess what next year's payroll is going to look like?

Moose and Votto will combine for $43 million, and they are the only ones with guaranteed money for next year.

If the "plan" is to get younger and cheaper, I really think, after arbitration, they'll be at $75 million next year, and less in 2024 when Votto and Moose are gone.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

Here's the reason why Hamilton County builds stadiums, real estate

Look at the Reds ownership group a huge amount of them are in venture capital and real estate. People don't build stadiums anymore they build entertainment complexes with restaurants and shopping and other destinations. The county buys into it because it drives business to town and increases their tax base and the property values of the area around the stadium. The county has dipped their toe in this model three times in the last 55 years and its paid off for them, enhancing a former rough and tumble working riverfront into a destination area for consumers.

Developers love this stuff, they hire groups to grease the skids and promise political pawns that the growth will propel their aspirations as well

It's all about money, not baseball

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I seriously doubt the county recouped the cost of the stadiums. If the county did come out ahead, we would probably here about it a bunch. I'm pretty sure stadiums are considered a net loss. It is difficulty to accurately quantify, and we'll probably never know the true numbers. If I had to guess, it's probably a 50% or more loss overall.

"FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class""

I'm well aware of those areas, as well as Wyoming. They are very small pockets in the overall county. It'd be interesting to find out, but I'm guessing the majority of the money being spent at GABP is not from Hamilton County.

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Originally Posted by dfs

Doesn't matter. The franchise cannot achieve success if they chart a new course every other off-season. They don't have the courage to actually hold a course and the eventual answer is always "cash it all in and start from scratch." We're going to win with a team of softball sluggers or with pitching and defense or a stellar rotation or with kids or with vets or with balance.

The words and intentions don't matter when they change every couple of years.

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Not only do they not have the courage of going all in on a frequent reload, they fall in love with players to the point that it won't allow them to make the proper baseball decisions.

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Originally Posted by NebraskaRed

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Also, wasn't his former position "VP of Marketing"? Or Chief Marketing Officer?

Marketing.

VP.

Ahh nepotism...

EDIT I stand corrected. He was VP of Business Operations. He's why GABP gets another bar or three whenever the Reds are about to "rebuild."

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Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy

The worst part about this for me personally, is that I have an 8 year old who is ate up with sports, and 17 year old who has accompanied me on road trips to 13 different parks. We spent the winter going to PBS and made memories that will last a life time... They'll never forget the KC game. So at risk of not going full Chris Carpenter here, I have a difficult time explaining to him (8 year old) why I'm ticked off at the Reds and why they are trading players like Winker. We went to multiple games last summer, he loved it... I took the oldest to Wrigley to watch them and we had a blast (along with a ton of TV time). They both are excited about making trips to GABP, and all I want to do is not give Bob a dime. I will relent because I don't want to take something away that we enjoy so much together. But man, Phil's comments yesterday burn right through me as I prepare to spend 2-3+ hundred dollars on weekend to trip to the park this summer. I'd much rather take them to PNC just so Bob doesn't directly get my money. It's truly infuriating.

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It's not easy to explain MLB economics to young kids but small market teams have to do this from time to time

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Originally Posted by Z-Fly

I seriously doubt the county recouped the cost of the stadiums. If the county did come out ahead, we would probably here about it a bunch. I'm pretty sure stadiums are considered a net loss. It is difficulty to accurately quantify, and we'll probably never know the true numbers. If I had to guess, it's probably a 50% or more loss overall.

"FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class""

I'm well aware of those areas, as well as Wyoming. They are very small pockets in the overall county. It'd be interesting to find out, but I'm guessing the majority of the money being spent at GABP is not from Hamilton County.

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Well, the county sort of "came ahead". They got all the benefits that WestOfYou talked about. The people that got screwed were the taxpayers. I don't live in Cincy, but I think they got a sales tax increase to pay for the stadium, then when the stadium was paid off, the county never removed the additional sales tax. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. So the people essentially gave Reds ownership a little bit of money every time they purchased something in the county. They basically took 1/2% paycut to build the GAB on the promise that it would make the Reds competitive.. Instead they got Lindner and the current group laughing all the way to the bank, and Phil telling the fans to shove it.
I hope the voters remember this when Phil C asks for a new park and claims it will make the Reds competitive, and then blames the GAB for his penny pinching.

Doc, at the Cincy Enquirer, has posted his "why can't we all just get along" OP-ED this morning.


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...ns/7303047001/

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Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy

The worst part about this for me personally, is that I have an 8 year old who is ate up with sports, and 17 year old who has accompanied me on road trips to 13 different parks. We spent the winter going to PBS and made memories that will last a life time... They'll never forget the KC game. So at risk of not going full Chris Carpenter here, I have a difficult time explaining to him (8 year old) why I'm ticked off at the Reds and why they are trading players like Winker. We went to multiple games last summer, he loved it... I took the oldest to Wrigley to watch them and we had a blast (along with a ton of TV time). They both are excited about making trips to GABP, and all I want to do is not give Bob a dime. I will relent because I don't want to take something away that we enjoy so much together. But man, Phil's comments yesterday burn right through me as I prepare to spend 2-3+ hundred dollars on weekend to trip to the park this summer. I'd much rather take them to PNC just so Bob doesn't directly get my money. It's truly infuriating.

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My oldest son lost interest in the Reds when they dumped Chapman for nothing. I guess he was the smart one of the family :lol:
My second son will probably lose interest when they dump Castillo for nothing.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Well, the county sort of "came ahead". They got all the benefits that WestOfYou talked about. The people that got screwed were the taxpayers. I don't live in Cincy, but I think they got a sales tax increase to pay for the stadium, then when the stadium was paid off, the county never removed the additional sales tax. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. So the people essentially gave Reds ownership a little bit of money every time they purchased something in the county. They basically took 1/2% paycut to build the GAB on the promise that it would make the Reds competitive.. Instead they got Lindner and the current group laughing all the way to the bank, and Phil telling the fans to shove it.
I hope the voters remember this when Phil C asks for a new park and claims it will make the Reds competitive, and then blames the GAB for his penny pinching.

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Also, the Reds pay $1.00 a year for rent at the stadium.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It's not easy to explain MLB economics to young kids but small market teams have to do this from time to time

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That's just if you believe there's such a thing as a "small market team".

There's really isn't.

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It's not easy to explain MLB economics to young kids but small market teams have to do this from time to time

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I don't mind the trading aspect as much and I understand that he'll get over the players... But it's not really the small market mentality, it's comments like yesterday that prove that it isn't about winning to the ownership group, it's about them making money. As a kid or as an adult, you want to believe the team you root for is actively trying win or has a plan in place to build a competitive team. The things that were said yesterday really proved exactly what we all suspected... They don't care one flip about the fans, they only care about the fans' money.

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“It's just a classic example of ownership using organizations as profit," former Reds and current Phillies outfielder Nick Castellanos said recently. "When ... there are no consequences for losing, you're not held accountable for your performance.

"What sucks is in a great city like Cincinnati where the fan base is impeccable, it's suffocating," Castellanos said, "because of ownership.’’

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Originally Posted by Z-Fly

I seriously doubt the county recouped the cost of the stadiums. If the county did come out ahead, we would probably here about it a bunch. I'm pretty sure stadiums are considered a net loss. It is difficulty to accurately quantify, and we'll probably never know the true numbers. If I had to guess, it's probably a 50% or more loss overall.

"FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class""

I'm well aware of those areas, as well as Wyoming. They are very small pockets in the overall county. It'd be interesting to find out, but I'm guessing the majority of the money being spent at GABP is not from Hamilton County.

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Correct about the stadium part, I think a larger cut of the beef that's not mentioned is the surrounding real estate development and gentrification. That's what the City wants. But if the Reds suck and have bad marketing nobody goes down there (from all those other counties as you mentioned) and people around the stadium take the hit. After the last two summers having what happened yesterday was a kick in the face after the kick in the balls to those people and the fans.

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"Where you gonna go? Let's start there. I mean sell the team to who?" Phil Castellini told WLW. "If you want to look at what would you do with this team to have it be more profitable, make more money, compete more in the current economic system that this game exists, it would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Phil’s comments were salty and ridiculous for the most part. But people are ignoring what he said about building a pipeline of young talent into Cincinnati through the minors and it being the way to win. I think the Reds would have run away with the division in 2020 without the shortened season. But by 2021, they had to start selling it off. The only sustainable winning stretch in recent Reds history was accomplished by a pipeline of homegrown talent. People are more than willing to acknowledge that when they are trying to mitigate current ownerships role there. But when they say we want to get to building such a pipeline, people go off. The way he delivered the message was obscenely terrible, but that was the message. I get the sell off hurt a lot of feelings, but they dismantled a barely 500 team where the star RF was not coming back pretty much no matter what, you probably got Votto’s last great season, your best pitcher per WAR was likely never going to come close to that performance again, and the roster had considerable fat on it like Suarez, Shogo, and Barnhart to a lesser degree. All of this while multiple young great players were emerging in the minors and MLB. As much incompetence as we’ve seen in executing rebuild plans since 2015, they may have finally seen the light. However, any goodwill from the fanbase to stomach the hard decision type moves we saw this off-season is gone and Phil doesn’t understand why it is.

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Any message that was lost is 100% on Phil Castellini. I am done being told this is my fault. "We need higher attendance", "You're ignoring our message", "Your expectations are too high". DONE.

I don't care about your profit, your politics, your philosophy. Show me results

This man went on the radio and was lobbed the softest of softball questions "what do you say to fans who have lost faith after 15 years?". The first things out of his mouth were laughter and a scoff, followed by (paraphrasing) "you have no other option" and "this is what you get if you want the team to stay in Cincinnati". Any "message" that was lost after those comments is on him.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

My oldest son lost interest in the Reds when they dumped Chapman for nothing. I guess he was the smart one of the family :lol:
My second son will probably lose interest when they dump Castillo for nothing.

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What the Reds don't understand -- and won't, until it's too late -- is that the next generation of sports fans doesn't follow teams, they follow stars. They don't sit and watch full games, they watch highlights of the players they like on TikTok and YouTube.

There has never been a worse era to "play the kids," if you want to attract the attention of a demographic that doesn't watch CBS prime-time programming.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/04/red...-with-baseball

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Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

Any message that was lost is 100% on Phil Castellini. I am done being told this is my fault. "We need higher attendance", "You're ignoring our message", "Your expectations are too high". DONE.

I don't care about your profit, your politics, your philosophy. Show me results

This man went on the radio and was lobbed the softest of softball questions "what do you say to fans who have lost faith after 15 years?". The first things out of his mouth were laughter and a scoff, followed by (paraphrasing) "you have no other option" and "this is what you get if you want the team to stay in Cincinnati". Any "message" that was lost after those comments is on him.

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Agree. Any message was lost in the pissy whining fest yesterday. He did even say so decent stuff. But it was so overshadowed by the stupidity it wasn’t heard.

Yeah, Phil Castellini's comments pretty much cemented that I won't be going to any more games or buying any merchandise until they sell. I'll watch on tv mainly because I'm too stupid to quit. I don't root for their profitability and am not concerned by how financially affected they are, they don't have to own this team.

And as for their threat to leave, please by all means let's see how this schtick works in a market that has absolutely no emotional investment built over the course of a century.

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Originally Posted by Unassisted

Since Bob's the one being called out by name, maybe he's more irritated about it than Phil is? Hard to imagine that Phil is the only member of the family bothered by the calls for it to sell.

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Completely agreed. I am sure they feel like they have done some charity by owning a franchise that has increased in value exponentially. I just think Bob is smart enough to not let the fans know that, where as the entitled son cries poor and victim, surprised that he has no sympathizers.

Bob is at the root of this. Just like I had called for him to address the media when all of this slashing started, not way after the fact with the puff piece done with Tommy. Instead he let Krall absorb much of it, until he finally stepped in.

Bob was happy to tout promises of returns to the peak of baseball glory. Happy to stay in the background on this stuff... shameful.

Remember when we all had delusions of possibly getting a Story or a Lindor? Wild to think that wasn't too long ago, and didn't seem impossible (improbable maybe, but not out of reach.)

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Originally Posted by HammerTime

If your best stretch you can point to in 20 years is 3 years where you won ZERO playoff series then there is a problem. You don’t get bonus points for trying sometimes.

If you run into a “butthead” in the morning, you ran into a “butthead”. If you run into buttheads all day, you're the “butthead”.

The Banana brigade is the problem, not the solution.

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For me, all I care about is being competitive year after year. The playoffs are a crapshoot, I can’t hold a franchise responsible for not winning the playoffs. I hold them responsible for not putting a watchable, competitive team on the field every year.

The problem this ownership has had is that they have only been committed to being competitive for a very short period of their tenure as owners.

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Originally Posted by 757690

For me, all I care about is being competitive year after year. The playoffs are a crapshoot, I can’t hold a franchise responsible for not winning the playoffs. I hold them responsible for not putting a watchable, competitive team on the field every year.

The problem this ownership has had is that they have only been committed to being competitive for a very short period of their tenure as owners.

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As fans, we endure the marathon of the season for hope. Hope that October exists and a trophy lifted.

I too do not ask for a World Series. Look at some of the super teams assembled that never achieved that. I ask for hope, hope and pride that the Reds, our team, are with the best teams all with that same hope.

Hope is not the equivalent of having a good year for 1-3 years every 10 years. That's giving just the brief taste of happiness to remind you what it might be like before taking it away for years... that's torture.

Just checking in now, has anything else wild happened yet today? Did Castellini ritualistically behead Mr. Red on the field this morning or anything?

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Just checking in now, has anything else wild happened yet today? Did Castellini ritualistically behead Mr. Red on the field this morning or anything?

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He was asking for it. Do you know how expensive his shampoo is? I mean, what are you going to do, report me to the police for beheading Mr. Red? Be careful what you ask for, there are some dark places on the web that would pay top dollar for your beloved Mr. Red head.

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- Phil, probably

He is going on WLW to clarify here shortly.

Lots of hot takes and assumptions on this thread, but I want to tackle one specifically.

Nick Catellanos's quotes about his time spent in Cincinnati as a Red and his love for the fans is pretty obvious.

He absolutely would have stayed had ownership been willing to spend the money they were given by MLB via revenue sharing.

I don't know how everybody's different devices and screen resolution works, but for me, when the "Last Post" is in this thread, this is what shows up on the main index:

Attachment 18202

Given yesterday's meltdown, it now amuses me to no end to imagine what might surprise Phil Castellini! Clearly, he had no clue that if you threaten the fans, they may not like it... I suspect he'd be taken aback that most people don't have 3 houses... and he'd be outright stunned that bad things happen when you combine scotch, cocaine, and stupidity the way he does.

What else surprises Phil Castellini? YOU make the call...

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Big picture generalization:

We should be run like the Cleveland Indians*. They trade away players nearing big paychecks for highly sought after prospects. The Reds trade prospects for those players nearing free agency. See Choo and Bauer. In the end, Cleveland enjoys more sustained success despite a lower payroll. I think Krall and Co see that and are making the necessary moves to make that happen. I'm not impressed with the return so far. We've gotten 2 sore armed pitchers and some very young pitchers which is always a crap shoot. The Reds traded young players on the verge of the major leagues in the Bauer, Choo and the Mat Latos deal. That has to stop. It's not sustainable for us to trade such prospects. Latos, Bauer and Choo are long gone while guys like Trammell, Gregorius, Grandal and Boxberger are still playing and had long careers

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In the macro sense, I certainly agree. But I have absolutely zero issues with the three high-profile trades that you mentioned given the state of the franchise at the respective times - i.e going for it.

And while this isn't directed at you, I also have no issues with the Dodgers trade in December of '18, as the franchise was circling the drain with a poorly executed rebuild. The Indians, Rays, A's or Brewers would never have placed their respective franchises in that position in the first place by eschewing the need to add starting caliber MLB talent - not prospects - for four consecutive seasons ('14 Byrd to ' 18 Puig, the Reds` example ) no matter the state of the rebuild. Nor would the previously mentioned teams have packaged Suarez with arguably their best trading chip, which was/is indefensible.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Lots of hot takes and assumptions on this thread, but I want to tackle one specifically.

Nick Catellanos's quotes about his time spent in Cincinnati as a Red and his love for the fans is pretty obvious.

He absolutely would have stayed had ownership been willing to spend the money they were given by MLB via revenue sharing.

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yup

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Well, the county sort of "came ahead". They got all the benefits that WestOfYou talked about. The people that got screwed were the taxpayers. I don't live in Cincy, but I think they got a sales tax increase to pay for the stadium, then when the stadium was paid off, the county never removed the additional sales tax. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. So the people essentially gave Reds ownership a little bit of money every time they purchased something in the county. They basically took 1/2% paycut to build the GAB on the promise that it would make the Reds competitive.. Instead they got Lindner and the current group laughing all the way to the bank, and Phil telling the fans to shove it.
I hope the voters remember this when Phil C asks for a new park and claims it will make the Reds competitive, and then blames the GAB for his penny pinching.

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They did it as a sales tax of 0.5% in Hamilton County, so the burden wasn't entirely on the Hamilton County tax payers. That was the compromise when the bordering counties told Cincinnati to pound salt. We are also supposed to get a property tax discount every year too. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work, because my property taxes never change unless the home value changes. Nevertheless, there is an article that breaks it down per $100,000 home value. I don't have it at my fingertips. It basically states that sometimes we get the credit, and sometimes we do not, but rarely do we get what was promised. It's based on the sales tax of the county. We tax payers get paid last. Shocking, I know. As far as I know, they're still paying off the two stadiums we have. But I agree with you that tax will likely not go away when the stadiums are paid off. Standard operating procedure.

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

What the Reds don't understand -- and won't, until it's too late -- is that the next generation of sports fans doesn't follow teams, they follow stars. They don't sit and watch full games, they watch highlights of the players they like on TikTok and YouTube.

There has never been a worse era to "play the kids," if you want to attract the attention of a demographic that doesn't watch CBS prime-time programming.

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yep, and other than the brief period of success during the Walt era, the Reds have pretty much sucked since 1999. A few seasons over 500, but mostly losing.
Not sure how they plan to attract young fans like that -- especially when the owner tells the fans to suck it.
It will be interesting to see what happens as MLB's fanbase ages and only the large markets have young fans.