Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

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Originally Posted by Z-Fly

They did it as a sales tax of 0.5% in Hamilton County, so the burden wasn't entirely on the Hamilton County tax payers. That was the compromise when the bordering counties told Cincinnati to pound salt. We are also supposed to get a property tax discount every year too. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work, because my property taxes never change unless the home value changes. Nevertheless, there is an article that breaks it down per $100,000 home value. I don't have it at my fingertips. It basically states that sometimes we get the credit, and sometimes we do not, but rarely do we get what was promised. It's based on the sales tax of the county. We tax payers get paid last. Shocking, I know. As far as I know, they're still paying off the two stadiums we have. But I agree with you that tax will likely not go away when the stadiums are paid off. Standard operating procedure.

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Ok, maybe what I read was that the sales tax was extended longer than it was intended.. or maybe I am remembering completely wrong. In any event, thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

What the Reds don't understand -- and won't, until it's too late -- is that the next generation of sports fans doesn't follow teams, they follow stars. They don't sit and watch full games, they watch highlights of the players they like on TikTok and YouTube.

There has never been a worse era to "play the kids," if you want to attract the attention of a demographic that doesn't watch CBS prime-time programming.

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I suppose the trick is to thread the needle and insist you think you've got a pack of kids - India, Greene, Stephenson, Lodolo, Barrero - who are going to be stars and Reds fans have the chance to watch them as they ascend. Right? You sell people on this being a golden generation.

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Originally Posted by M2

I suppose the trick is to thread the needle and insist you think you've got a pack of kids - India, Greene, Stephenson, Lodolo, Barrero - who are going to be stars and Reds fans have the chance to watch them as they ascend. Right? You sell people on this being a golden generation.

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Until they are arbitration eligible and they move them.

An interesting thread. Reds Twitter has been on it too. I found myself agreeing with Doug a lot too, even though I don't always.

Anyway, I'll just say that I still support the players, but I won't be spending my money on the team in the ways I normally would. I don't live out of town, but would typically fly a couple of times a year to catch games at GAB, but won't be doing that this year. I will catch some of the games with the Yankees and the Mets though, but those are in my backyard and at least I feel like my gate receipts are going primarily to the NY teams and not the Reds (note: I don't know what those splits actually are).

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

Until they are arbitration eligible and they move them.

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Sure, but they probably ought to leave that part out for the time being.

I try to catch them in SF every year, but I want to know the gate money breakdown now.

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Originally Posted by GullyFoyle

I try to catch them in SF every year, but I want to know the gate money breakdown now.

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It's 48%. Home team keeps 52%, they put 48% into the common pool, Reds then get 1/30 of that pool.

I guess it's not enough to watch them gut the team, we have to like it as well.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

Also, the Reds pay $1.00 a year for rent at the stadium.

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That's just if you believe there's such a thing as a "small market team".

There's really isn't.

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This isn't the NFL

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

That's just if you believe there's such a thing as a "small market team".

There's really isn't.

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Well, Cincinnati is the 37th largest TV market in the US. In a 30-team league, where only 1 of the 30 is in a market ranked lower, I think it's safe to say the Reds are nearly the smallest market team.

While you're looking at that list I linked above, ponder the markets ranked higher (17, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 29-33 and 35) that don't have MLB teams. I think there's a strong case to be made for putting MLB in North Carolina.

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Originally Posted by Unassisted

Well, Cincinnati is the 37th largest TV market in the US. In a 30-team league, where only 1 of the 30 is in a market ranked lower, I think it's safe to say the Reds are nearly the smallest market team.

While you're looking at that list I linked above, ponder the markets ranked higher (17, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 29-33 and 35) that don't have MLB teams. I think there's a strong case to be made for putting MLB in North Carolina.

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That is an imperfect metric when it comes to evaluating a market for a specific sport. Going off of that, revenue for the Rays should be through the roof (location of stadium be darned.) Las Vegas would be as questionable as Cincinnati.

It matters, don't get me wrong, but the Reds punch higher than their market when it comes to securing deals as typically (though going forward, who knows) they command more of their market than a TB does or other 'smaller' market team.

The simple truth is that Cincinnati is a fine smaller market for baseball, but even better for incompetent ownership that delivers more insults than playoff-caliber seasons.

Make no mistake though, with Manfred at the helm of the broader game and our very own Failson set to take over one day, whatever punching above their weight that Cincinnati has had will continue to erode (as it has been for a couple of decades now.)

When you factor in more than the immediate metro area, the Reds territory is much larger than people would expect...

With the trash ownership and never competing, that's going to shrink fast.

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Originally Posted by missionhockey21

That is an imperfect metric when it comes to evaluating a market for a specific sport. Going off of that, revenue for the Rays should be through the roof (location of stadium be darned.) Las Vegas would be as questionable as Cincinnati.

It matters, don't get me wrong, but the Reds punch higher than their market when it comes to securing deals as typically (though going forward, who knows) they command more of their market than a TB does or other 'smaller' market team.

The simple truth is that Cincinnati is a fine smaller market for baseball, but even better for incompetent ownership that delivers more insults than playoff-caliber seasons.

Make no mistake though, with Manfred at the helm of the broader game and our very own Failson set to take over one day, whatever punching above their weight that Cincinnati has had will continue to erode (as it has been for a couple of decades now.)

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Yep, Reds are near several large cities, there's a lot of untapped potential, but the Reds would have to try to win to tap into that.
In the Walt years, the Reds drew 2.4-2.5 million.. Last year, they only drew 1.5 million
I imagine that attendance is somewhat correlated with TV viewers too.
Reds are cutting their own throat long term.
Look back to the Marge era, I believe it was 1995, the Reds had a top 5 payroll in baseball.
I am not saying the Reds could do that today, but there's enough money to field a much better team than they have today.
If ownership did that, the fans would come.
But unfortunately, it's more profitable to field a losing team, and that's all Phil and Bob care about.

https://defector.com/reds-president-...l-their-fault/

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Originally Posted by Unassisted

Well, Cincinnati is the 37th largest TV market in the US. In a 30-team league, where only 1 of the 30 is in a market ranked lower, I think it's safe to say the Reds are nearly the smallest market team.

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In the old CBA, there was an owner-and-union agreed ranking of markets by size for competitive balance and other purposes. Unsurprisingly, Cincinnati was dead last.

Haven't looked at the new CBA. Largely because, with few exceptions, these debates are not about facts, but feels.

Phil should be more worried what the next 79 home games are like after his bashing fans comments...

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Originally Posted by Redsfan6272

Phil should be more worried what the next 79 home games are like after his bashing fans comments...

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If the Reds lose like 20 of their next 30 and are looking at 12-24 record, or something similar, the attendance is going to get reaaaaaaaalllll bad. I just saw some images from todays game. I get it, early afternoon weekday game with poor weather, it looked like a Rays game. If people shun the Reds the owners will have to sell. I am starting to think this is the beginning of the end.

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

This is legitimately insane. Dude looks like used car salesman from the Bronx named Tony Dollars.

This is like something out of a bit from prime Simpsons

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I’m not caught up yet in this thread, but Tony Dollars is some A+ material.

This isn’t rocket science. Winners win, losers lose. If the Reds management tried and put together a quality roster and won actual baseball games then fans would go to the ballpark in droves. When the Reds are winning, they tend draw 10k more per game than they do when they stink. That’s approximately $25,000,000 in increased ticket sales on the low end. Then, they’d double or triple that number in concessions, merchandise, parking, etc. TopGolf, for example, makes 82% of their revenue on F&B and they gross over a billion dollars a year. You know, “butts in the seats”. That’s the most maddening part to all of this. If the Reds tried, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in the Cincinnati area would benefit. Owners, fans, restaurant owners, the players, etc. etc. The ignorance and the arrogance by Reds management is so moronic on so many levels.

The payroll may be cut but 24oz beers are now a healthy $16 at GABP

Bengals had how many consecutive sellouts in the mid-late 2000's? If you build it, they will come.

I respect the fans/city for not supporting the clubs financially when they actively don't try to compete.

The Castellini's should be THRILLED that the emotion of the day is anger and not apathy.

The saddest (worst) part is that I thought originally that Phil actually verbalized the apology that would have been written. No, instead, he just put out a statement. What a coward.

With all the varied revenue streams available to MLB franchises and you say you can't be profitable with any payroll over $100M, you're simply admitting you're incompetent, a liar or both.

I really do think they want to win. I think we all pretty much believe that. The problem is they are incompetent. They want to build like the late 1990s Yankees, but they don't have the resources to do so. Bob makes irrational illogical emotional decisions like he is a teenager. They can't stick to a plan. Then he doesn't have the capital to sustain a loss.

I was surprised that a person such as Bob was able to build wealth to the point where he could purchase the leading share of the Cincinnati Reds, with his list of attributes I described previously, so I looked him up. He graduated and was immediately put in as the executive vice president at the "Castellini Group of Companies" then three years later was made the president. I pulled this from wikipedia, so it could be slightly off. It makes so much sense now. That's why all of the kids work on the executive team. That's what he was taught. He never had to build anything. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Maybe he took the business to a new high. I don't know much about the guy and his history at all. Regardless, he wasn't someone that came up through the mail room, because he had amazing ideas.

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

If the Reds lose like 20 of their next 30 and are looking at 12-24 record, or something similar, the attendance is going to get reaaaaaaaalllll bad. I just saw some images from todays game. I get it, early afternoon weekday game with poor weather, it looked like a Rays game. If people shun the Reds the owners will have to sell. I am starting to think this is the beginning of the end.

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Let's hope so.
Unfortunately, I suspect that even if the Reds sell a ridiculously small amount of tickets, it's still economically beneficial to own the team.
My fantasy (which will not happen) is that fans of all tanking teams just stop showing up, and stop watching the game, so that the next TV contract actually goes down.
I think that's what it would take to fix competitive balance.
Again, it will never happen, and I am not trying to shame anyone on this board that still watches games.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Let's hope so.
Unfortunately, I suspect that even if the Reds sell a ridiculously small amount of tickets, it's still economically beneficial to own the team.
My fantasy (which will not happen) is that fans of all tanking teams just stop showing up, and stop watching the game, so that the next TV contract actually goes down.
I think that's what it would take to fix competitive balance.
Again, it will never happen, and I am not trying to shame anyone on this board that still watches games.

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FWIW Reds TV ratings ranked 5th in the majors in 2020

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...#39;s%20record.

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The Reds averaged local ratings of 4.67% in 2020, ranking fifth among Major League Baseball's 30 teams. The Reds finished two games over . 500 and made the expanded playoffs last year. The numbers show viewership isn't necessarily predicated on the team's record.

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It's been almost 48 hours now and I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the Tuesday Massacre. And trust me, I know bad ownership as a fan. Reds, Knicks, and the team formerly known as the Redskins have been my favorites for over 50 years now.

And yet Tuesday's events still have me shaking my head wondering if that really happened.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

FWIW Reds TV ratings ranked 5th in the majors in 2020

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...#39;s%20record.

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yep, I imagine their "undisclosed" TV contract is pretty good.
We all knew that they wanted to keep their new TV deal secret so they could continue to cry poor.
Once they lock in that good TV contract, along with all the other MLB money they get.. the Castallanis don't fullfil their end of the deal, which is
to provide an entertaining product. They think we are all rubes that will continue to support the Reds no matter how badly they tank (Where else are you going to go? Just calm down and continue
to give us your money).
IMO, this year is tanking. The last tanking session began with relatively promising young arms too.. Finnegan, Lorenzen, etc.. Just because we are fortunate enough to have Greene and Lodollo on the roster doesn't mean it's not tanking.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

yep, I imagine their "undisclosed" TV contract is pretty good.
We all knew that they wanted to keep their new TV deal secret so they could continue to cry poor.
Once they lock in that good TV contract, along with all the other MLB money they get.. the Castallanis don't fullfil their end of the deal, which is
to provide an entertaining product. They think we are all rubes that will continue to support the Reds no matter how badly they tank (Where else are you going to go? Just calm down and continue
to give us your money).
IMO, this year is tanking. The last tanking session began with relatively promising young arms too.. Finnegan, Lorenzen, etc.. Just because we are fortunate enough to have Greene and Lodollo on the roster doesn't mean it's not tanking.

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My problem is that they trade guys, but they don't trade the guy that is the biggest trade chip that should bring back major league ready young talent (Luis Castillo). They should have kept Sonny and traded Castillo.

My apologies if this has already been shared. This is from a Cardinals fan blog, which makes it sting all that much worse:

https://redbirdrants.com/2022/04/13/...dumpster-fire/

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Originally Posted by HalKing

My apologies if this has already been shared. This is from a Cardinals fan blog, which makes it sting all that much worse:

https://redbirdrants.com/2022/04/13/...dumpster-fire/

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We're not going to be signing free agents for awhile anyway

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Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

My problem is that they trade guys, but they don't trade the guy that is the biggest trade chip that should bring back major league ready young talent (Luis Castillo). They should have kept Sonny and traded Castillo.

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Or they package guys who should bring a big return with terrible contracts, turning what should have been a good prospect return into a pure salary dump. Or they trade a reasonably-priced starter for one kid who's five years away from the majors in a perfect world and even have to attach a prospect to get the receiving team to do it.

Used to be I felt like only us at RZ were the old men shaking our fist at the sky and the masses were sedated and placated. But I thing the masses have joined in the fist shaking.

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Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

Used to be I felt like only us at RZ were the old men shaking our fist at the sky and the masses were sedated and placated. But I thing the masses have joined in the fist shaking.

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I rarely post anymore simply because this franchise just doesn’t matter to me that much anymore. Phil’s comments simply reinforce my belief that the Reds care more about the dollar than winning.

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Originally Posted by Big Red Smokey

Bengals had how many consecutive sellouts in the mid-late 2000's? If you build it, they will come.

I respect the fans/city for not supporting the clubs financially when they actively don't try to compete.

The Castellini's should be THRILLED that the emotion of the day is anger and not apathy.

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Those Bengals sellouts were not always legit cause sometimes guys like Chad Johnson would buy enough tickets to make it a sellout. But your point is taken. A couple of three years ago, people were as down on the Bengals as they have ever been. Right now if Mike Brown wanted to build a publicly financed new stadium where Fountain Square is, people would be down with it. But even if the Reds have a winning team, it seems it takes them a while to warm up to it. Historically, they have started cold and the attendance followed. If they improved, people started coming out later in the summer. If they didn't people would show up on special occasions or when the Cubs came here.

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

If the Reds lose like 20 of their next 30 and are looking at 12-24 record, or something similar, the attendance is going to get reaaaaaaaalllll bad. I just saw some images from todays game. I get it, early afternoon weekday game with poor weather, it looked like a Rays game. If people shun the Reds the owners will have to sell. I am starting to think this is the beginning of the end.

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FWIW day games generally draw pretty well. You had a couple of factors, a day game the day before (opening day) and weather that looked like a washout all day long. Most people aren't going to go to two day games in a row.

And the weather looked like rain all week. Had it been a nice day, I think the attendance would probably have doubled.

All that aside, this was the first opening day in recent memory that wasn't sold out hours after OD tickets were made available. I am sure the had a difficult time selling season tickets and ticket packs after the lockout and dismantling of the team.

The schedule did them no favors. Four in Atlanta then a west coast trip, they may be done for after the first main road trip of the season and then it will get pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by HalKing

My apologies if this has already been shared. This is from a Cardinals fan blog, which makes it sting all that much worse:

https://redbirdrants.com/2022/04/13/...dumpster-fire/

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When I read that yesterday it made me mad and embarrassed.
I am still positive with the on field talent. Not happy with ownership or front office. This division was ripe for the taking but screwy moves turned us from having a solid shot at a playoff team to one that has to have a lot of things go right to get there.

You MIGHT convince the Castellinis to sell, but you will not convince all the other folks in the ownership group to sell. It’s rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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Originally Posted by MikeS21

You MIGHT convince the Castellinis to sell, but you will not convince all the other folks in the ownership group to sell. It’s rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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The others don't matter since they aren't managing partners. Some of these people (or their ancestors) have been minority owners since the 70s.

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Originally Posted by MikeS21

You MIGHT convince the Castellinis to sell, but you will not convince all the other folks in the ownership group to sell. It’s rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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Maybe we can get the Williams' in charge, they seem to want to win.