Man, you are going to be really let downQuote:
Originally Posted by Cannon
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Man, you are going to be really let downQuote:
Originally Posted by Cannon
Most likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 4m4 minutes ago
Sources: #Reds’ Bruce a consideration for #Dodgers. Ethier’s return uncertain; Pederson only LHH OFer. Bruce cannot block trade to LAD.
Verdugo and Barnes too much to ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
Trade negotiations 101:
Begin negotiations by asking for what you want, not for what you think you'll receive.
All it takes is for one GM to believe that you have a missing principal component in what said GM believes could be his teams' year.
I'd definitely be looking to drive up a bidding war between the Giants and Dodgers.
It helps that Brian Sabean is this decade's equivalent of (Former White Sox GM) Kenny Williams. In other words, Sabean has demonstrated a propensity to "overpay" in regards to perceived value at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Tracye Thompson is in a bit of a slump, and with Puig back from the DL, he is losing PT. How about him as a potential piece?
We do seem to be better matchup with the Dodgers than the Giants. If LA doesn't want to surrender Verdugo and Barnes, switch over to Verdugo and Micah Johnson. I've seen Johnson play and he does have some issues, but on the plus side: He is fast, he could lead-off or hit second, and his prime potential positions are 2B or CF.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
Just an FYI, Bruce, per his contract, can block trades to the: Red Sox, Rays, Yankees, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks, Marlins, A’s, or Twins.
Please, no more fleas. The Reds have Hamilton and Peraza and Johnson isn't an upgrade over either of them. I'd rather have an international slot instead of Johnson. The Dodgers really can't use them this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Guacarock
I love the Verdugo and Barnes idea. Barnes would be an immediate upgrade behind the plate and he and Barnhart could make a really strong tandem, IMO, and Verdugo would be a legit RF option in a year or so. The Reds should kick something in (not sure what) if needed to make that happen.
How about paying Bruce's salary for the rest of the year plus the buy-out?Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Alex Verdugo, please.
I'd do it. Reds won't. Wonder if LA would want Cingrani as another lefty relief option. Bruce and Cingrani for Barnes, Verdugo and some international slot money.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
I'd rather the Reds not send their only viable LH bullpen guy, but in a lost season it doesn't matter much.Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Agreed, but he's not lights out or anything. His lack of secondary stuff doesn't even make him much of a lefty on lefty match-up guy. Lamb or Finnegan probably ends up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
Yes, yes and yes to this. I'd ask for Verdugo and Calhoun for Bruce, and hope they bite. Verdugo is a must in any trade with LA.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
Barnes is an older prospect ... If the reds go after him - it makes the catching situation in Cincy interesting for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Depends on what they think about Mesoraco. Missing two years even with no injuries is pretty difficult to come back from and he only has a couple of expensive years left if he does. I'd imagine he's either a washout or a July17 deadline chip. Cabrera is expendable and Barnhart will be a FA before Stephenson or Okey are ready. IIRC, Barnes can play other positions so they could probably carry all three next year if Mesoraco is back.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
Verdugo and Cody Bellinger would work for me, if the Dodgers didn't want to part with Austin Barnes.
I wouldn't mind Willie Calhoun either (with the understanding that he's likely headed for a corner OF spot soon).
Barnes and Barnhart could hold down the catcher position for years until Okey, Stephenson, and/or Turnbull are ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
- - - Updated - - -
Not Bruce exactly but by the end of July, Disco is going to have 8-10 starts behind him showing him to be healthy and effective. Does he go on the block?
I'd offer Bruce and Cingrani (or Lamb) for Verdugo, Barnes and Calhoun
I'd take that in a minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
Doubt the Dodgers would, though.
I'd say no on dealing any starters. Finnegan and Lamb haven't exactly established themselves, Iglesias may be limited to the pen and Stephenson can't throw strikes.
Why in the world would the Reds trade DeSclafani? Last time I checked, Reds need pitching.
Verdugo is a must. I would ask for either Barnes, Bellinger, or Sterling Heredia as the second piece.
I'm not opposed to the Reds grabbing Verdugo and Barnes at all. But I do think Verdugo is the main prize and, if that's so, the Dodgers in surrendering him might not be so inclined to also give up Barnes. That's why I raised Johnson as an alternative, because Dodgers might decide he's expendable given the fact they will also have Calhoun ready to bring up soon. Personally, I don't think Calhoun will stick at 2B, but that's the Dodgers' problem to sort out.Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Either trade -- Verdugo-Barnes or Verdugo-Johnson -- would make more sense for the Reds than what we are likely to get off the Giants, so it definitely makes sense to be courting the Dodgers. As always, they have the pitching to go all the way, but their offense isn't delivering at all in the kind of way they could expect for the balance of 2016 with Bruce on board.
Disagree on Finny... He's proven he can start. Lamb not yet...Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Lamb has LA connections and may be preferred on Cingrani if LA wants a LHP.
Calhoun is a corner OFer I think for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guacarock
Verdugo was the desired guy when Frazier left in the three way trade with LA and CWS.... He's a coveted bat...
Bruce just hit HR 17 - so his price is high as ever.
1.52 K:BB ratio. 4.90 FIP. Finnegan shouldn't be written in ink. Not sure he's one of the best 5 even if Iglesias stays in the pen and Bailey is shipped off ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
Again, no interest in Johnson. I'd rather have international slots along with Verdugo or Barnes before subbing Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guacarock
Micah Johnson is a Jose Peraza / Billy Hamilton wannabe. No thanks. Calhoun and Barnes are the only other guys I consider for LA.Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Walks and HRs have hurt Finny for sure.... I think he's pressingQuote:
Originally Posted by mth123
I think just the opposite. I think he's in the stages of learning to pitch successfully in the majors. That means ups and downs that are going to skew the numbers somewhat. But he's trending in the right direction (unlike Straily).Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
Got it. And I'm not that opposed to your viewpoint. I just see Verdugo as the key to a trade, and Barnes or Johnson as secondary pieces -- Barnes if we're uncertain whether Mesoraco will return in good shape; Johnson if we want to limit Phillips' plate appearances next season. I guess I have seen as much of the eroding Phillips as I want. But then again, it's doubtful Mesoraco will ever be the same again, either. So either variation has some merit, in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by mth123
Maybe in May.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwagers
But Finnegan has had a strong June, which is very encouraging for a 23 year old pitcher. We've seen other guys slump and just go downhill.
I'm confident that, if healthy, Finnegan will be in the Opening Day rotation next year. Hard to project long term with trades, etc., but I think he's done well.
If the Reds get Verdugo, I wouldn't expect too much of a secondary piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guacarock
The salary dump is a huge part of this, and a top ten Dodgers prospect is going to be the main return.
Later down the top 30 list there are several nice pitching prospects, and that would be ok for a second player.
Verdugo- "Offensively, you're going to have your ups and downs. Defensively, you can go out every day and give it your all. When you throw a guy out at any base, pitchers love it. I take pride in that."
.... Cincy fans will eat that up.....
I still haven't changed my mind on the Reds dealing Bruce - it needs to happen, but I'm coming around to keeping him around unless thy get their price - and that price is rising. Before the season, I would have been ecstatic if you'd told me they could get one solid "B" level prospect. Now I'd be disappointed if the settle for less than two and we're fast approaching an "A").
Dodgers - they need to send two of their ten best prospects above A ball. I agree that Verdugo must be one and I'd actually ask for Grant Holmes as the second. When they say no, I'd be OK with Montas, Bellinger, Barnes or Cotton. I'd also be willing to add a secondary piece for Holmes or two of the last group.
Indians - I really hold out for Frazier or Zimmer, but I might take Tyler Naquin and a second prospect (but it would have to be a very good one). I'd add a kicker for Frazier/Zimmer.
Red Sox - Andrew Benintendi or Yoan Moncada - that's it. I might even overpay and include Stephenson with Bruce for one of them, but that's the price.
Mets - Brandon Nimmo or Michael Conforto and Gavin Cecchini (the Reds throwing in piece)
Royals - Three from among Kyle Zimmer, Bubba Starling, Hunter Dozier, Jorge Bonifacio or Ryan O'Hearn (I might throw in a small sweetener fif Zimmer is included).
Giants - Christian Arroyo is a must, plus one of Tyler Beede, Mac Williamson or Andrew Susac
White Sox - Tim Anderson and Adam Engel (Meh)
Rays - Mike Mahook or Willie Adames plus another piece
Texas - Lewis Brinson and Jurickson Profar (the Reds thow in another player).
Blue Jays - Dalton Pompey and Richard Urena. (Meh)
The Angels, Tigers & Orioles - don't have enough in the upper levels of their entire systems to interest me.
I might take a little less in a couple of cases or sweeten a bit in others, but the above would be what it would take to move Jay now.
nm