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Have to agree. Bruce doesn't want to break the bank in staying here. The money shouldn't be an issue. Keep the guy, let him be part of the next nucleus like was always planned. He's good again, and a middle of the order hitter in a league devoid of this power trait. Don't be a cheap organization for once because he's not in a bad contact and won't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_
White Sox, Reds Talked Jay Bruce In Spring Training
By Steve Adams | June 7, 2016 at 9:04pm CDT
The White Sox aren’t planning to simply sit back idly after acquiring James Shields from the Padres, writes Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. The amount of money that San Diego kicked in to cover the cost of Shields’ contract has the White Sox positioned to add “at least two more important cogs for a playoff push,” per Levine. Chief among the Sox’ needs at this point are a left-handed bat and a left-handed setup man for the bullpen. Levine lists Jay Bruce as a player of interest, though he notes that when the Sox spoke to the Reds about Bruce in Spring Training, Cincinnati was “adamant” that the Sox would have to cover at least $11MM of the $12.5MM that Bruce is earning in 2016. Beyond that, Levine writes that the chances of the South Siders parting with top prospects Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer in any trade this season, regardless of target, are “close to zero.” For those interested in some names that could be available as targets for the Sox, MLBTR’s Jeff Todd penned an updated list of the game’s top trade candidates earlier today.
Jay Bruce has more than enough ability to continue to OBP at the bare minimum 315 and SLG around 500, if not higher now he's around his prime. Probably a little low on the SLG even. He's shown the ability to hit in the 280 range which probably pushes his OBP closer to the 330-340 range and SLG around 550. He's a top OF at that level, and he's ALWAYS had that kind of talent.
I absolutely look to extend him before trading him. Offer him something like 3yr/45-50mil after next year's option, and keep him around at least as long as Votto is here.
Bruce is as close to a sure thing the Reds currently have. He can still be a very valuable part of a winning team's core. And I know he's been around for a while, but the guy is currently in his 20s still. Offering him a 3yr extension is hardly insane. It'd take you probably right down to around the end of his prime years.
Meanwhile, having Bruce in the lineup cranking out ~30 dongers a year at a reasonable price is nothing but good. The team has to spend money again EVENTUALLY. Might as well start looking at investing in the things that will contribute to them winning now, and Bruce certainly fits that bill.
Hell I can see this team playing over 500 in the second half once the prospects get called up and they empty the recycle bin in the bullpen and push some of the younger rotation talent to relief. And Jay will be a big part of that.
ps, UZR can go pound sand
I feel like the Reds should hold on to Bruce unless they are wowed with an offer. Especially with his comeback this season. Another aspect I think is that he’s a good leader and you don’t want to have a team with a losing culture, something I feel might happen if you keep replacing the best players. Also Bruce is one of my favorite players.
I get it. I honestly do. UZR isn't that great for measuring defense BUT the eye test also says that Jay Bruce is just bad out there (RF). I wish he weren't because frankly I would be all in on signing him to an extension. I just don't see it though when the Reds have other options that cost 1/24 his cost and at the same time have a fairly large amount of trade bait (pitching) to get someone else if they don't want to hand the job to Winker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
The only thing is that I hope the Reds don't make the same mistake with Bruce that they made with Frank Robinson. Different Players I know, just a scary thought since Jay blew his knee out and hasn't been healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
The Cardinals went to the playoffs last year with a guy in LF (Piscotty) who literally could not throw the baseball due to an elbow injury. It didn't affect his hitting so they kept him out there.
Like I said before I'd like to see the Reds pick up Bruce's option rather than trade him just for the sake of trading him.
And there's a very good chance that Bruce could do this for three or four more years, at least. It seems like he's older than he is because of his down years and injuries as well as the amount of team he's been with the club, but he isn't. He can be a major contributor when the team is ready to contend. Yet I get the idea that the team is just interested in dumping his salary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
Exactly where I'm coming from. To use the old refrain in a different way this time, he's only 29, and yet he's been up and with the team for nearly 10 years now. He's had injuries, but he appears to be recovering and healthier than he's been in years.Quote:
Originally Posted by marcshoe
If he stays around for the option + say that hypothetical 3 yr extension, then you're only tied to him through his age 33 season, when his prime years probably will be winding down. But that time isn't now.
I think people just remember he and Votto came up around the same time and equate them together. In reality, Jay is closer to Duvall than he is Votto, and Duvall is viewed as a part of the "rebuild".
Dave Cameron said something to this effect today in his Fangraphs chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by marcshoe
I doubt it would make me stop being a Reds fan (there might not be anything that could), but I would be incredibly pissed if they trade Bruce away for nothing so that they don't have to pay the rest of his salary this season.
What gives me some hope on the opposite side is that it's been reported both in the offseason and during this season that teams felt as though the Reds were asking for too high a price. With Bruce coming back to life at the plate, I tend to think the Reds wouldn't suddenly lower those standards.
This team is not really in the position to get cute with Bruce. The time to trade him is now. Thankfully Bruce's value is back above water, and if the Reds decide to kick in an extra million or two the return could be even better.
They aren't going to land a Zimmer/Frazier or even Tim Anderson, but they could put a package together and eat enough money to net a decent 50-100 or a couple of 100+ guys. Cingrani is a guy I'd look to package with Bruce, maybe even Straily. A Bruce/Cozart could fetch something nice if they both keep hitting.
I definitely understand the line of thinking. I'm just more of a bird in the hand type of thinker, I guess. Winker projects pretty good, but at his best, I imagine Bruce right now is probably his ceiling, just pure net positive production. But I think Winker will also hit for less power (though it appears he probably will walk considerably more often.)Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrichjr
Also, to me as far as the eye test goes, I really don't think Bruce is as bad as has been written in RF. If defense slumps too, at most that's what I'm seeing from Jay. He's played some balls off the wall weird a few times this season, but really, he's always been somewhat prone to that (I remember a particularly egregious example in SF in I wanna say either 2012 or 13 where it literally cost the Reds the game, and that was a year his D graded out positive.)
He's still got a cannon for an arm and I think the reports of the demise of his range have been exaggerated.
IMO the most I'm seeing is Jay playing defense fairly tentatively (he's pulled up more often this year than in the past when he would've dove for a ball, seems to be playing extra cautious at the wall as well), probably wary of reinjuring himself. And that's something I think he can adjust.
The tools are still there to my eyes. It's just a matter of regaining that confidence in his body and his skill to prevent himself from getting injured without needing to play like he's made of glass in his mind.
I can understand being incredibly annoyed or whatever, but the issue isn't this year's salary. It's next year's salary. It's getting some return for Bruce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
If the Reds don't trade him they have three choices.
1. Exercise his $13MM option for next year, or extend him. Reds will not want to do this. Maybe they should, but this team is cutting cost, they will not want to.
2. Exercise the buy out option and offer him a QO. That's ok, but what if he accepts the QO? It's probably $14.5 million or so for next year. Not attractive.
3. Exercise the buy out and don't offer the QO. Then you get zero return for him.
The Reds simply will not want to pay Jay a $13-14 million salary for next year (or extend him). It's contrary to their entire rebuilding scheme. They have Duvall and Winker for the corners next year.
So, the likely move is to trade him at the deadline, using his improved performance to get the best deal possible.
Personally, I'd like to see the Reds hold out if no good deal is coming. I think it's time they exercised some leverage rather than trading for the best deal possible. Let the league know they aren't desperate and are demanding fair value. But I believe money is the key factor and they will simply trade him at the deadline for the best available trade.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I read this after a Bruce hot streak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990