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I gave up considering winning a World Series when they first expanded the playoffs many years ago. I consider playing meaningful baseball in the last month of the season success now. I can understand if one wants to limit it to making the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee
Yep, it would be a huge boost to the pitching staff if they picked up another starter and then converted one of the kid starters to a long man that could eat maybe 80 innings during the year (multiple inning appearances).. That would help stop the pen from being gassed. So I agree, even an averagish starter being added would help. Obviously, it's a buffer against injuries too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
They know it can work if executed more systematically and carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
Have a solid base of young players and then add veterans who will make a difference in key areas.
If they think they’re going anywhere limiting themselves to second and third tier vets, they are mistaken.
I would certainly aim higher than Wacha and Miley, but I think folks are forgetting that these guys are free agents and therefore not for the Reds’ picking and choosing. I would be pretty happy if the Reds made a prospect for prospect trade for an arm. I just don’t want them to be passive.Quote:
Originally Posted by REDREAD
I personally want the Reds to spend $100M this offseason, and I know they can if they want to. But I am mentally preparing myself for the Reds following something close to the plan Nightengale suggested. I don’t know if it will work, but I am rather certain it’s the path they have chosen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
One of Wacha/Miley would certainly help. I'd love to see something better, but I'm not holding my breath.
I hope that a return on India brings at least a solid reliever and possibly another depth piece.
I fully expect Krall and Co. to fill the margins with a Wacha type, a couple of relievers, and a 5th infielder, so I'm not surprised by the reports.
So, none?Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
I'm uninterested in playing for just "meaningful baseball," especially now that it's relatively easy to do so. The Rays, Guardians, Brewers, and that ilk have largely been failures, if only becausse when they have a real shot at going for it, they choose not to.
They play for second place.
Yes, I want them to shoot higher than Miley / Wacha too.. But I'm trying to be realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitri
In the end, we'll probably get someone worse than Miley /Wacha :( unless Krall miraculously finds a clearance sale.
What he doesn't understand though is that the Reds were able to get Bauer at a reasonable price because he only had 1.5 years left.
Will Krall settle for someone like that? Or are good rentals still off the table, like they were last year, because prospects are too precious?
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It actually did work, not perfectly, but the 2 years Castanallos was here was the 2nd most successful period since Marge was forced out.Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
Walt's era was the most successful.
If we want to call last year a success (which I agree), then you have to call the two Casanallos years a success too. Despite the fact that they had some FA mistakes, it worked.
Yeah, it turns out spending money works. Who knew?!Quote:
Originally Posted by REDREAD
My one pushback here is that very rarely, if ever, do teams execute a plan with the intention of being reckless or uncareful. I'd say it's more likely they were spending $ last time thinking they were being systematic and careful. Krall and the Castellinis were part of the brain trust then, so it's not as if "now that those reckless idiots are gone, we can do this the right way".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
I do agree with the rest of what you said here.
Yes, and to be fair, I am going to confess, I loved the Moose signing at the time. I didn't know much about him, I didn't know how bad his defense was. But I loved the fact that it signaled the Reds were at least trying to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank
I think part of the strategy was that Williams wanted to sign one big name quickly to help convince other FAs that the Reds were serious about trying to win.
I think Cast does not sign here without some other moves being made first.
That doesn't mean signing Moose was a good move in retrospect, but you can kind of see the thought process.
The point is, that's part of the cost of tanking and running an organization as the Reds have done for most of the last 20 years.
FAs are not going to take you seriously.
Let's just say hypothetically Krall was given 100 million to spend this winter. He's going to most likely overpay to land someone like Gray or Nola.. just based on the Reds' reputation.. A player that wants to win a ring probably is not going to come here (unless some other moves are made first). We could get the guys that are just trying to max out their contract -- still can get a good player that way, but it's going to cost money.
Another example, the vast majority of the board loved the Shogo signing. Even when it was clear he could not hit MLB pitching, excuses were made for him. Like that tree fell on his wife (whatever that accident was), he was adjusting to a new country, etc, etc.. The Reds FO gave him that money, obviously they believed he was going to earn it. Now in retrospect, it was a disaster, but at the time, very few people called it reckless or dumb.
Even during the Walt years the Reds never had first tier vets. It was Arroyo, a post prime Rolen, and Arthur Rhodes as the vets of the team. Not exactly first class IMO. Those team were carried by good young players(Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Chapman etc). If the Reds do anything in the future it'll be on the backs of under 30 homegrown talent and players that were traded for. There won't be a time were multiple 20+ million AAV free agent signings are carrying this team to victories. The only way the Reds are going to have first tier vets is to start locking up some of the young guys now and hope they turn into that in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
But the difference now is the base of talented pre-arb young players.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank
Reds weren’t reckless last time but they didn’t have all this low cost talent.
The current plan is off to a good start, the payroll is low, the team has a good pipeline, and adding a couple of difference-making vets should boost the team.
They had Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Cueto and Bailey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
Yes. Hannigan was also over 30.Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
Ludwick and Broxton too.
Reds bought in Marshall as a vet, even though he was hurt.
Also Choo was brought in as a rental.
So while they had a young core, the team also depended on key vets.
That's what the 2024 reds need now.. the right vets added.