Reds General Discussion 2026, Part 2

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Originally Posted by LiferJim

The end may finally be near for Benson, as he has 4 PA in the last 7 days. I realize this is mainly due to Hinds arrival, but so few at bats in the last week doesn’t bode well for his future on this team. He’s certainly not a guy I’d count on as a late inning pinch hitter.


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I don't know but it seems to me like Benson has always had some gaps between his ABs ever since he's been in Cincinnati.

For some time now I’ve viewed Benson as a good candidate for the Reds bench. Especially with this team which lacks LHH. Plays all three outfield positions, including CF, competently. And has pop so can get you an extra base hit off the bench once in awhile.

If they’re going to keep five outfielders then I’d be in no rush to send him down to AAA. If you have Myers and Benson as your bench OFers, you’re pretty well covered in back-up situations.

The more pressing issue is the starting outfield which is currently Steer, Friedl and Hinds. All three should be under the microscope right now as to whether they are good, starting MLB outfielders at this stage. Each a different case, obviously.

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Originally Posted by GAC

Benson should be the next on the chopping block when the opportunity dictates it (such as a call-up, need for the roster spot). Like you said -he's been given plenty of opps, going back to his days with Cleveland (where Tito was the manager). He's shown nothing IMO.

How far does KBH have to sink before Franco says "I've seen enough"? He's been disgustingly bad! And if he continues on this course - who plays 3B? It would have to be Geno. He played 150+ games last year there. And you spell him with guys like Sal, Speer, and lets not forget the Elly plays 3B. You move McLain over to SS, and play Steer at 2B. Again, this is only when you want to give Geno an occassional break off 3B. I'd use KBH as a late inning defensive replacement.

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With Hayes current avg at .064, what date does anyone predict that he will pass the Mendoza line? Hopefully he doesn't ever have the .100 batting average be named the Ke'Bryan Line.

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Biggest issue with Hayes is Reds haven’t surrounded him with enough good hitters. They knew when they traded for Hayes that he was challenged offensively but an excellent fielder. They could afford that if he was ninth hitter in a good lineup.

If the idea was that Hayes will hit, that was a terrible bet. He’ll improve from where he is, but the answer lies with the rest of the lineup, not so much with Hayes himself.

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Originally Posted by Kc61

Biggest issue with Hayes is Reds haven’t surrounded him with enough good hitters. They knew when they traded for Hayes that he was challenged offensively but an excellent fielder. They could afford that if he was ninth hitter in a good lineup.

If the idea was that Hayes will hit, that was a terrible bet. He’ll improve from where he is, but the answer lies with the rest of the lineup, not so much with Hayes himself.

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We now have 229 plate appearances worth of data on Hayes as a Red.

He’s slashing .195/.275/.278 with 10 extra base hits and 13 RBI in 69 games.

There is literally no amount of offense you could surround Hayes with to make those number tolerable.

Mike Leake was a pitcher who never even batted in the minor leagues. As a Red, he slashed .219/.243/.315.

Mike Leake’s OPS was .004 higher than Hayes’s.

We’ve lost this one. The only way it gets worse is if we obstinately continue to play him in hopes that his bat eventually justifies the investment.

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Originally Posted by redsfan9988

We now have 229 plate appearances worth of data on Hayes as a Red.

He’s slashing .195/.275/.278 with 10 extra base hits and 13 RBI in 69 games.

There is literally no amount of offense you could surround Hayes with to make those number tolerable.

Mike Leake was a pitcher who never even batted in the minor leagues. As a Red, he slashed .219/.243/.315.

Mike Leake’s OPS was .004 higher than Hayes’s.

We’ve lost this one. The only way it gets worse is if we obstinately continue to play him in hopes that his bat eventually justifies the investment.

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Except it absolutely is possible to put enough offense around him to make his bat not matter, the issue is the Reds didn't do that even though they came out and said that was what their plan was. They didn't even try.

Lets look at a few of the top offensive teams in the NL and see if they are carrying someone like the numbers you mention above.

Braves have 2 guys with the following slash lines in their lineup
.203/.309/.271
.226/.262/.339
The Braves are the 2nd best offense in the NL they have a OPS+ of 123 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 121 vs Reds 77

Nationals have
.171/.189/.314
.200/.302/.218
The Nationals are the 3rd best offense in the NL they have a team OPS+ 115 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 112 vs Reds 77

The Marlins have
.149/.259/.191
.164/.279/.233
.182/.200/.318
The Marlins are currently the 5th best offense in the NL they have a team OPS+ 106 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 105 vs Reds 77

I mean even looking at the Pirates
Ozuna is sitting at .127/.213/.200
The Pirates have a team OPS+ 106 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 107 vs Reds 77

Does Hayes suck at hitting? Yes very much so. Was he brought in for his defense and delivered on that? Yes.

The issue is the Reds put together an awful offensive team and it doesn't really matter at this point what Hayes does on offense because when your team has 6 positions that are ranked 22nd or below in OPS and a 7th at 15th replacing one guy isn't really going to make much of a difference. The offense was bad last year, they basically added Stewart and Suarez and felt that was enough. It wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Kc61

For some time now I’ve viewed Benson as a good candidate for the Reds bench. Especially with this team which lacks LHH. Plays all three outfield positions, including CF, competently. And has pop so can get you an extra base hit off the bench once in awhile.

If they’re going to keep five outfielders then I’d be in no rush to send him down to AAA. If you have Myers and Benson as your bench OFers, you’re pretty well covered in back-up situations.

The more pressing issue is the starting outfield which is currently Steer, Friedl and Hinds. All three should be under the microscope right now as to whether they are good, starting MLB outfielders at this stage. Each a different case, obviously.

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Good assessment. How long before we're ready to try Bleday instead of Hinds? May 1 if Bleday is still hitting and Hinds still isn't?

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Originally Posted by shaggy

Except it absolutely is possible to put enough offense around him to make his bat not matter, the issue is the Reds didn't do that even though they came out and said that was what their plan was. They didn't even try.

Lets look at a few of the top offensive teams in the NL and see if they are carrying someone like the numbers you mention above.

Braves have 2 guys with the following slash lines in their lineup
.203/.309/.271
.226/.262/.339
The Braves are the 2nd best offense in the NL they have a OPS+ of 123 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 121 vs Reds 77

Nationals have
.171/.189/.314
.200/.302/.218
The Nationals are the 3rd best offense in the NL they have a team OPS+ 115 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 112 vs Reds 77

The Marlins have
.149/.259/.191
.164/.279/.233
.182/.200/.318
The Marlins are currently the 5th best offense in the NL they have a team OPS+ 106 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 105 vs Reds 77

I mean even looking at the Pirates
Ozuna is sitting at .127/.213/.200
The Pirates have a team OPS+ 106 vs the Reds 74 or wRC+ 107 vs Reds 77

Does Hayes suck at hitting? Yes very much so. Was he brought in for his defense and delivered on that? Yes.

The issue is the Reds put together an awful offensive team and it doesn't really matter at this point what Hayes does on offense because when your team has 6 positions that are ranked 22nd or below in OPS and a 7th at 15th replacing one guy isn't really going to make much of a difference. The offense was bad last year, they basically added Stewart and Suarez and felt that was enough. It wasn't.

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Those two guys in the Braves lineup are Mike Yastrzemski (112 career OPS+) and Michael Harris III (106 career OPS+).

The Nationals and Marlins aren’t meaningfully attempting to win baseball games this season. The Braves didn’t plan to have those 2 OF be unplayable offensively.

As it stands - playing Suarez at 3B and Lowe at DH (or Stewart at 3B and Lowe at 1B) seems like a stronger option. Hayes provides positive value when he fields and negative value when he bats. We need to do the best we can to limit his exposure at the plate in high-leverage situations.

He’s a very expensive luxury that should be brought in to games we lead to help protect our advantage. Starting him makes no sense. Allowing him to bat when we are behind makes no sense.

Unlike our OF situation - we actually DO have better options at 3B. We are fast-approaching the time to deploy said options.

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Originally Posted by redsfan9988

Those two guys in the Braves lineup are Mike Yastrzemski (112 career OPS+) and Michael Harris III (106 career OPS+).

The Nationals and Marlins aren’t meaningfully attempting to win baseball games this season. The Braves didn’t plan to have those 2 OF be unplayable offensively.

As it stands - playing Suarez at 3B and Lowe at DH (or Stewart at 3B and Lowe at 1B) seems like a stronger option. Hayes provides positive value when he fields and negative value when he bats. We need to do the best we can to limit his exposure at the plate in high-leverage situations.

He’s a very expensive luxury that should be brought in to games we lead to help protect our advantage. Starting him makes no sense. Allowing him to bat when we are behind makes no sense.

Unlike our OF situation - we actually DO have better options at 3B. We are fast-approaching the time to deploy said options.

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The Nationals and Marlins might not be trying to win but the fact remains that to the question of can a team provide enough offense to carry Hayes bat both of those team as well as the Pirates who are trying to win are showing so far this season.

Sure I agree with you that Yastrzemski and Harris are much better career hitters then Hayes but Yaz is about to turn 36 and this could be who he is now. Either way the Braves are currently carrying their bad production with the rest of the offense on their team.

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Originally Posted by shaggy

Except it absolutely is possible to put enough offense around him to make his bat not matter, the issue is the Reds didn't do that even though they came out and said that was what their plan was. They didn't even try.

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What is this argument about? You could put me at the end of murderer’s row and they’d still win a few games. Does that make it a good decision?

It feels like the Reds front office has us just where they want us- debating bench players as actual outfield options.
Well played, diminished expectations.

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Originally Posted by RustyJ

What is this argument about? You could put me at the end of murderer’s row and they’d still win a few games. Does that make it a good decision?

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It wasn't really an argument as much as saying the front office and Tito came out and said it was their job to put offense around Hayes and his bat so they could add his defense to help the pitching.

Had the Reds done what they said they were going to do the team could have played Hayes and been ok as I was pointing out that other teams are carrying a bat like Hayes and not suffering consequences of it. They aren't good at team construction or judging talent and put a terrible offensive team on the field.

For reference, Bleday had another big game last night and is now hitting .354 with a 1.093 OPS. Bensons days are numbered


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on the Reds website it has a preview of tonight's game. It will be telling if Benson is not in the lineup. If he's not, then the Reds are done with him IMO.