Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Yeah, it's tough being the owner of a major league baseball team in these times. LMAO
I'm going to wait to see how this '22 version of the Reds does before I say anything about this owner (payroll). I'm getting tired of steppin' in it. lol
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old school 1983
The history of baseball, especially the FA era, is littered with high spenders who have crashed and burned.
Feel free to compare the relative successes of those who spend on payroll and those who don't.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sea Ray
The Houston Astros are #10 at $172 million. What makes you think that we can afford the payroll of the 4th largest market in the country?
Please explain the San Diego Padres.
Over the last five years (including the COVID years) , the Padres have averaged $247.6 million in revenue and the Reds have averaged $231.2 million in revenue. The Padres had an opening day payroll of $209 million.
Last year they were at $174 million.
They are actually doing what the Reds could be doing, using "payflex" money from when they were tanking and using it to make a run at contending.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old school 1983
The history of baseball, especially the FA era, is littered with high spenders who have crashed and burned. That’s why the competence means more to me than the dollar amount once it gets over a certain threshold. The Reds generally spend more than enough to have a winner. Assemble the team competently. If they start doing that and still aren’t able to get over the top ill say start spending more. The Reds generally spend near double of some teams that find consistent success. With a competent FO that sticks to a plan, the Reds could easily be that Dodgers version of the Rays you mentioned. They took that first step and trimmed the fat off the roster. People can go in circles all day about the moves, but the only real loss was Winker. The Reds now have a loaded farm and young players maturing at the MLB level as we speak. Couple that with payroll to spare in the coming years, and the Reds could very well be that team you mentioned.
I think the overall spending level is deceiving. They have one contract that was signed 10 years ago taking up 23% of the payroll and another that was signed in the Williams spending spree accounting for another 15%. Another 7% (also from the Willians spending spree) is going to a guy they just cut. That's roughly 45% of the payroll. I think you have to look player by player and see how much of the roster is filled with retreads and longshot kids. They have a decent cheap young core in Stephenson, India, Barrero, Senzel, Greene, Lodolo and Santillan. They have the two big contracts (one is a large negative at this point), they have Castillo and Mahle. They have a couple decent veteran role players in Naquin, Solano and Farmer. The rest are hired guns on the decline, retreads or kids who aren't really highly rated prospects. I think that kind of roster make-up has too much wishing and hoping involved. Wishing that declining vets (Pham, Moose, Minor) can have one more good season, the retreads (Moran, Strickland, Wilson, Garcia, Warren) have a career year and that you win the lottery multiple times with longshot kids (anyone with a couple years experience or less not already named). Some of those guys may pan out, but too many have to for this team.
They are adding more kids who might be part of the core in the next year or two (McLain, De La Cruz, Williamson) which should help but they need to spend on more solid veterans to fill holes for this to be a contending team.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Would this be too much to ask from ownership?
"We've Failed You. When we bought this team 16 years ago, we penned a letter promising you championship baseball. We promised you one of the most respected organizations in baseball. We have fallen well short on those promises. We also promised in that letter that we would not rest until you are happy. You are not happy and you shouldn't be. We have heard the calls to sell the team but we have unfinished business. We have broken your trust and we plan on gaining it back with our actions, not our words"
This "how dare you question us?" press tour is pretty unflattering
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bourgeois Zee
Feel free to compare the relative successes of those who spend on payroll and those who don't.
Thing is, that’s not a Bob Castellini problem. That’s an MLB issue. Of course teams like the Dodgers that have the ability to have payrolls the size of GDPs of some counties have an advantage. Until that’s dealt with, you live with the hand you are dealt and that’s a lower middle of the pack payroll. Spend the money competently. You still have more than the Rays or the As who seem to do decently well most years. The Brewers, the favorites in the central are only at 129M this year according to spotrac. The Reds have shown that they spend more than enough money to build a competitive team. The greater issue is with the competency in doing so.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Redsfaithful
As others mentioned, it should be cyclical. You spend up in years when things are coming together, then pull back as players age and after you win something, like at least a playoff series.
The Reds should have had a top-10 payroll for Joey Votto's prime years - say 26-33. Then pull back for a few years. This should always be the strategy when they manage to develop a generational player.
Instead, they fumble around year to year with no real plan beyond making money.
I sure can't defend their plan. But I think top ten payroll is a big ask. That doesn't happen in cities like Milwaukee, Cleveland, KC, Oakland and Tampa. Those teams have a plan. Can't expect us to do any better than those franchises
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeatherPants
Please explain the San Diego Padres.
Over the last five years (including the COVID years) , the Padres have averaged $247.6 million in revenue and the Reds have averaged $231.2 million in revenue. The Padres had an opening day payroll of $209 million.
Last year they were at $174 million.
They are actually doing what the Reds could be doing, using "payflex" money from when they were tanking and using it to make a run at contending.
Quote:
“We’re not a small-market franchise,” Seidler said in February. “We represent the eighth largest city in America, and that’s the kind of trust we have with our great city, our fans and the people that support us. We ping-pong back and forth with the city, meaning we hold up our end of the bargain. They’ve proven for years their support for this franchise. You talk about trust, that’s how I view it right now and for a long, long time to come.”
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ights/2564744/
Our market is not comparable
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old school 1983
Thing is, that’s not a Bob Castellini problem. That’s an MLB issue. Of course teams like the Dodgers that have the ability to have payrolls the size of GDPs of some counties have an advantage. Until that’s dealt with, you live with the hand you are dealt and that’s a lower middle of the pack payroll. Spend the money competently. You still have more than the Rays or the As who seem to do decently well most years. The Brewers, the favorites in the central are only at 129M this year according to spotrac. The Reds have shown that they spend more than enough money to build a competitive team. The greater issue is with the competency in doing so.
Let's accept the fact that our Reds can't spend in the top half of MLB. You can still do a lot with players with under 6 yrs service time. The Reds have not done a good job with that
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sea Ray
I sure can't defend their plan. But I think top ten payroll is a big ask. That doesn't happen in cities like Milwaukee, Cleveland, KC, Oakland and Tampa. Those teams have a plan. Can't expect us to do any better than those franchises
Guardians 2018 134,000,000 payroll (worth $151,327,245.95 today)
Guardians 2017 $124,000,000 payroll (worth $143,524,738.90 today)
Royals 2016 $131,000,000 payroll (worth $154,857,133.33 today)
Royals 2017 143,000,000 payroll ( worth $165,516,432.77 today)
In that same time period, the Reds biggest payroll was 2019 $121,000,000 (worth $134 million today), so some of those teams your listing are doing way more than the Reds are doing.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MoneyInTheBank
Would this be too much to ask from ownership?
"We've Failed You. When we bought this team 16 years ago, we penned a letter promising you championship baseball. We promised you one of the most respected organizations in baseball. We have fallen well short on those promises. We also promised in that letter that we would not rest until you are happy. You are not happy and you shouldn't be. We have heard the calls to sell the team but we have unfinished business. We have broken your trust and we plan on gaining it back with our actions, not our words"
This "how dare you question us?" press tour is pretty unflattering
Rich people aren't generally into being humble. That's not a personality trait common with folks worth $400 million
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sea Ray
But the Revenue is comparable.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAC
Yeah, it's tough being the owner of a major league baseball team in these times. LMAO
Yep, I don't know how they manage to "Scrape by" :lol:
This year is so frustrating because they had money to keep some of the players, but instead spent it on Minor and some bench guys.
I don't know if that was part of a stupid plan by Krall, or ownership feeling the wrath of the fans and deciding to up the budget, but the
result is a sub 500 team. It's pretty good evidence that there is not a good plan in place.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MoneyInTheBank
Would this be too much to ask from ownership?
"We've Failed You. When we bought this team 16 years ago, we penned a letter promising you championship baseball. We promised you one of the most respected organizations in baseball. We have fallen well short on those promises. We also promised in that letter that we would not rest until you are happy. You are not happy and you shouldn't be. We have heard the calls to sell the team but we have unfinished business. We have broken your trust and we plan on gaining it back with our actions, not our words"
This "how dare you question us?" press tour is pretty unflattering
The problem is, if ownership writes a letter like that, fans will remember it and then try to hold them accountable when it's "Business as Usual"
Ownership could care less if they only draw 1 million fans this year, as long as the TV money and other money keeps rolling in.
They aren't concerned with the longterm damage to their brand. And honestly from a business point of view, I can see why they don't care about the brand.
Carl Lindner nuked the brand, Bob ran the club well under Walt, fans came back, Bob started tanking, yet his investment has gone up roughly 3-4 times, plus he's taken profits from the club.. Owners can nuke their brand and get financially rewarded.
Re: Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeatherPants
Guardians 2018 134,000,000 payroll (worth $151,327,245.95 today)
Guardians 2017 $124,000,000 payroll (worth $143,524,738.90 today)
Royals 2016 $131,000,000 payroll (worth $154,857,133.33 today)
Royals 2017 143,000,000 payroll ( worth $165,516,432.77 today)
In that same time period, the Reds biggest payroll was 2019 $121,000,000 (worth $134 million today), so some of those teams your listing are doing way more than the Reds are doing.
The Reds were in that ballpark 2020. Their Opening Day payroll was $147 mill. 40 man payroll was $165mill.
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.co...ncinnati-reds/
