John Fay is clueless

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Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

This is Fay's breakdown of the trade:



Sigh.

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That harshes my mellow.

Even Marty B. has started understanding the game more. Fay is still holding onto theories that statistical mythbusters debunked 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

I think the Reds are classy and don't want to trash Coco publicly. But truth is IMO, they gave him a "low-ball" offer which didn't approach what they offered Madson. I bet Madson's offer was nearly double what they offered Coco. Yet, there is Fay still insisting that Cordero was offered $7 or $8 million from the Reds. No way.

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Well, I agree Fay might've been wrong on the exact dollar amount.
However, it's not out of the question.
Suppose 3 weeks ago, Boras told Walt that there was zero chance of Madson signing anything less than 4 years (negotiating tactic)
Suddenly Walt's options are Cordero, Lidge, and some other sketchy candidates.

Let's say the Angels signed Madson.. At this point, I think I'd rather overpay Cordero for one year than live with the hole in the pen or give up significant prospects for another guy like Marshal..

Overpaying Cordero by 3 million or so for one year would not be a fatal mistake. I'm sure the prospect guys would rather spend an extra 3 million on a FA if it lets the Reds keep guys like Corcino, Hamilton, etc on the farm.

We will never know for sure, but it's not impossible that Walt told Boras that if he didn't accept this deal, he's making the same offer to Cordero.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Well, I agree Fay might've been wrong on the exact dollar amount.
However, it's not out of the question.
Suppose 3 weeks ago, Boras told Walt that there was zero chance of Madson signing anything less than 4 years (negotiating tactic)
Suddenly Walt's options are Cordero, Lidge, and some other sketchy candidates.

Let's say the Angels signed Madson.. At this point, I think I'd rather overpay Cordero for one year than live with the hole in the pen or give up significant prospects for another guy like Marshal..

Overpaying Cordero by 3 million or so for one year would not be a fatal mistake. I'm sure the prospect guys would rather spend an extra 3 million on a FA if it lets the Reds keep guys like Corcino, Hamilton, etc on the farm.

We will never know for sure, but it's not impossible that Walt told Boras that if he didn't accept this deal, he's making the same offer to Cordero.

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We know that the Reds didn't offer Cordero what they offered Madson because if they had, Cordero would have taken it.

Even if the Reds had offered Cordero $8M, by now, Cordero would have realized that no other team was dumb enough to offer him anything close to that. It's doubtful he got offered that by anyone for a two year deal combined.

Plus, the Reds were the only team left looking for a closer. We know Cordero wants to be a closer, so he would have take any Reds offer that was close to what he wanted. Clearly, it wasn't.

There is just no way to know what Coco was offered... Why is so implausible to think that Coco was offered a similar contract but believed he could still get 2 years? We don't know what other teams had on the table. Maybe Boras thought the best course of action was to put Madson on a good team needing a closer and throw him back on the market next year. Regardless, I love this signing!

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Originally Posted by 757690

We know that the Reds didn't offer Cordero what they offered Madson because if they had, Cordero would have taken it.

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No offense, but this is pure speculation.
We have no idea what was offered Cordero.
What you think is logical maybe be "disrespect" to Cordero.

Dunn reportedly signed with the Nats a few years ago because they were the only team to offer him a two year deal.

Remember, Cordero made about 12 million last year. He probably sees himself as the top (or top 2) closer available at the time. Ego makes people do things illogical at times. I doubt he's at home worrying about his declining FIP and valuing himself according to WAR.

All I'm saying is that it's possible one of Fay's sources heard that Madson had a deadline to accept or they were going to spend "the money" on Coco.
That's not completely implausible.. Ok, I am done.. it's kind of silly to argue on whether the Reds offered Coco 5, 7, 9 or million.. Doesn't really matter :)

I wouldn't even know who Fay was if not for his 2nd inning interruptions of the game with the Lord Of The Booth, and Redszone of course.

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Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

We also need to give a shout-out in this thread to the cluelessness of Mark Sheldon who was citing a "source" up until 11:11 on Tuesday night that "too much was being made" of the Madson-to-Reds talks.

I met Sheldon once and he's a really nice guy. I wonder if he has a single good source though when it comes to inside information.

Then there's Fay who is just a complete trainwreck.

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Sheldon and Fay = Clowns :thumbup:

I consider Sheldon a de facto team spokesman.

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Originally Posted by OesterPoster

Yeah, I saw that one too Homer. I tried to reply, but I couldn't figure out how to tell Fay that his analysis was bunk in less than 140 characters.

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"you suck" is 8 characters lol

Fay missed his calling. He would have been a great buffoonish neighbor on some bad sitcom.

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Originally Posted by kaldaniels

I consider Sheldon a de facto team spokesman.

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It's not really de facto. Sheldon's blog is hosted at reds.com is it not? I miss C. Trent.

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C. Trent would be one of the best beat writers in the game. Its a shame that he wasn't able to stay on somehow as a full time Cincinnati sports writer but that is the nature of the newspaper business.

I don't mind Fay. His target audience is the general Cincinnati sports fan, not a RedsZoner. To hold him to those standards would be for him to ignore his target audience. Average Joe doesn't care about the advanced metrics rather, who is Madson and is he better than Cordero?

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Originally Posted by bucksfan2

C. Trent would be one of the best beat writers in the game. Its a shame that he wasn't able to stay on somehow as a full time Cincinnati sports writer but that is the nature of the newspaper business.

I don't mind Fay. His target audience is the general Cincinnati sports fan, not a RedsZoner. To hold him to those standards would be for him to ignore his target audience. Average Joe doesn't care about the advanced metrics rather, who is Madson and is he better than Cordero?

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I guess the way I see it is that you shouldn't cater to your readers if your readers are misinformed, and the general sports fan is exactly that. They don't know anything. Educate them. Don't keep them misinformed.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

I guess the way I see it is that you shouldn't cater to your readers if your readers are misinformed, and the general sports fan is exactly that. They don't know anything. Educate them. Don't keep them misinformed.

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You should absolutley cater to your readers. If you fail to write to your target audience you won't be successful as a reporter.

I don't think Fay is clueless, I think he is pretty knowledgable on the Reds. But the vast majority of his readers haven't heard of fangraphs so Fay has little reason to dive into that area.