Birdie Tebbets, Larry MacPhail, Pat Moran, Bob Beschler
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Birdie Tebbets, Larry MacPhail, Pat Moran, Bob Beschler
Beschler is surprising as he see seemed to have held every record that Joe Morgan took over during his tenure with the Reds. I wondered, too, if any earlier managers had been left out. I agree about Moran but have never looked at Tebbets career as a manager to come down with an opinion. Looking now, I'd be curious to hear some amplification of your thoughts on the matter. McPhail should clearly be in.Quote:
Originally Posted by westofyou
Moran was a quality manager, his drinking might have been an issue, and his early death drops him out of many folks minds, but his pitching and defense approach taken from Matty made the Reds good for the first time and that should be noted.Quote:
Originally Posted by redsmetz
As for Birdie, he also should get some credit for bringing the Reds out of a decade of stink, he also was a big celebrity in the game compared to other Reds at the time, appearing on the cover of Time in 1956
An argument could be made for Gabe Paul too
Pete Rose should be in this and any other Hall of Fame. They are museums and he was a great player. Include a plaque telling of his misdeeds if you want but stick him in the Hall.
Dave Parker. Put together four strong seasons for the Reds, including what should have been an MVP season in 1985, and played a major role in returning the Reds to the status of contender after the horrific 82-83 seasons.
With fan voting this is a popularity contest. It might get to the point where if someone has a decent five year string and is good to the fans he's getting voted in. Brandon Phillips could call a press conference for 6:30 before the game tonight and announce his retirement and he would be voted in the Reds HOF the first year he was eligible.
I would say barring catastrophes, both Bruce and Cueto will be eventual, especially Cueto.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicoruiz
Bruce is already number 22 on the Reds all time home run list in his young career and only needs 5 more to crack the top 20. There's a good chance by years end he passes Reggie Sanders for the 19th spot.
If we're looking at WAR, Cueto has already been the 11th most valuable starting pitcher to the Reds all time, as crazy as that may sound. He's got a pretty awesome chance of finishing this season in 7th place all time WAR for Reds pitchers.
Also, to whoever said Harang is in, is correct. He's got to be a lock. Looking at WAR numbers, he was the 3rd best starter the Reds have ever had. Arroyo may have a shot too. He's top 10 WAR for pitchers as well.
Phillips will be a lock. I think Dunn should be there too. He is 4th all time on the Reds home run list and his WAR is almost identical to Driessen's during his time as a Red.
I don't know if it's glaring omission, but the closest thing I can see is pitcher Fred Norman. I'd put him in the Reds HOF for sure. 7th best WAR for Reds pitchers. His record was 82-60 with a 3.45 ERA as a Red. I would also give consideration to Curt Walker. He was awesome as a Red over a period of 6+ years.
I think Duane Walker, Tracy Jones, Gary Redus and Frank Pastori should be in. Oh and Paul Householder.
A team HOF is different than the National Hall. A team hall is partly a fan favorite poll as well as how great a player actually was. Players get in a team Hall that wouldn't even come close if it was strictly based on playing careers. I see the importance of that and of players who serve a team for a decade or more who were fairly ordinary players but played regularly year in year out and became household names in that town and fixtures in their city. They were important to that organization for a long time. They became by extension of their long service part of the face of that franchise during that period of time, especially in their later years there. Make fun of that if you want but I find team Hall of Fames much more fascinating and interesting than the National Hall for the very reason that you find more players who were the heart and soul of the clubs but not always the greatest players - often they were the greatest characters though. The Reds Hall is full of my favorites and I love it - and I love the selection process and the players they enshrine. I like the selectivity they employ - or as some say - the lack of it. West of You list of Moran, Tebbetts, Bescher and MacPhail is a good one and I'd add Gabe Paul and Dave Parker.
Of current players of course, Votto, then Cueto, Arroyo, Harang, Dunn, a good chance for Marshall, certainly Phillips, a chance for Cozart, Bruce, possibly Hanigan if he plays most of his career here, even ending as a backup to Mesaraco, Mesaraco, Possibly Latos if Mat pitches a lot of games like the other day. There are a lot of current possibilities because the Reds are on the cusp of another great era if all breaks right. A loaded farm system is close to fruition again if this a decent percentage of this years crop of draftees and the low level talent already here make a step forward. That will reload the system from top to mid to lower levels with lots of solid prospects from A to C grades at every level. Most of the big league talent is young and controlled for a few years yet including their top two hitting talents. Team HoF possibilities are all over the place - you can get carried away looking at these youngsters and seeing the possibilities everywhere. It's exciting to be a Reds fan right now.
How about Reggie Sanders? 8 yrs, .271/.353/.476/.829, OPS+118. 125 HR, 431 RBI, 158 SB.
That's true. For better or for worse, since we are leaving it up to the fans and media, it's going to be a popularity contest. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's what the fans want and people say all the time that teams should do what the fans want them to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by BearcatShane
Totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainspark
That's true. For better or for worse, since we are leaving it up to the fans and media, it's going to be a popularity contest. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's what the fans want and people say all the time that teams should do what the fans want them to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by BearcatShane
Totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainspark
He's flying under the radar right now with some bigger names getting more attention, but I think Reggie has an excellent chance down the road. A deserving player, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieRed
Lavern will always be cited for the bad series against the Bravos and not turning into Eric Davis... a fan vote now makes it hard for him because he's viewed slightly as a disappointment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Klu
All I have to say is... Wayne Granger, Jerry Lynch and Harry Craft
That is the biggest knock against him in the public perspective, and that's not his fault. But Reggie most likely will have to be a Committee selection, like Driessen was this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by westofyou