Reds Trade And Free Agent Rumours 2023-24 Offseason

You have three Chevy Novas. One has a million dollars in its trunk and the other two have petrified pumpkin pies from last year’s Thanksgiving. You have to pick one and eat whatever is in the trunk. The Reds are the Chevy Nova with the million dollars. You are the Chevy Nova with the petrified pumpkin pie and he is the other Chevy Nova with a petrified pumpkin pie. Who is he? Exactly. No one knows. What some Reds fan here are doing when they say the Reds aren’t doing an awesome job is saying they know who “he” is. But that’s unknowable and it’s a lie to say you know who he is. What we do know is that a million dollars may not taste delicious to some but you are a Chevy Nova with petrified pumpkin pie in the trunk and your options are to eat that million dollars or choose yourself and eat your own petrified pumpkin pie or choose the unknown and eat their petrified pumpkin pie. If you ask me, I’d eat a million dollars over petrified pumpkin pie any day and I know there are people who will eat petrified pumpkin pie and then tell us it’s our fault they chose wrong.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

You’re assuming all of that. That’s probably why Krall didn’t come out and say we’re going to do this that or the other specifically. If some of it doesn’t come to fruition, he’s a liar and never tried.

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Exactly. Lol. No answer.

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You’re doing a touchdown dance because I didn’t deem it necessary to remind you of the litany of failures and promises not kept?

You have the burden of proof here vis a vis the front office’s actions this off-season. Or lack thereof.

We’ll see how it goes. Lol.

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Originally Posted by 757690

Even if Wacha and Miley pitch to their peripherals, they will provide 4-4.5 ERA over 100+ innings. That’s a huge improvement over the back of the rotation for the Reds, and better than most #4 or 5 starters.

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We’re already pulling hair over Michael Wacha and Wade Miley.


This is a damaged fanbase.

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Originally Posted by LeatherPants

There are none currently.

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Well, this is out there, but I can't tell if it's an informed rumor or idle speculation. I think it's based on something Leatherpants wrote in the Athletic.

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Nati Sports
@Nati_Sports
The #Reds are engaged in active trade talks with the Boston Red Sox regarding 2B Jonathan India (Nothing imminent right now)

The last time the Reds traded with the Red Sox they dealt Tommy Pham in 2022 for Cincinnati native (and current Red) Nick Northcutt

RHP Tanner Houck is a name rumored and the Reds would require prospects additionally.

RHP Wikelman Gonzales is an intriguing prospect from the Reds perspective.

The Red Sox possess a relatively deep farm system and have room to add free agents this cycle.
11:42 AM · Nov 21, 2023

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https://twitter.com/Nati_Sports/stat...04676355129372

Cardinals now sign Kyle Gibson to a 1 year contract.

Wacha and Miley looking better and better.

Houck seems like a decent swing man type(4.17 ERA as a SP, 2.68 as a RP) and has 4 years of control. Also has excellent SO and ground ball rates(25% and 51%). If the Reds make a move like this they better be bringing in a decent offensive piece or two.

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Originally Posted by mth123

I think this is a very plausible and clear analogy. The problem I have is that these chips always seem to fall against the Reds best interest. Makes me think it's more than simply the chips not always falling the right way. I can see that happening a couple of times. I don't see it happening for 30 years.

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The Reds haven’t played in that upper end of the market playground every year for the past 30 years. They’ve likely only done it a couple times. Maybe they got the guy in the area of the field they were playing in and it didn’t work. Or maybe it did. That’s why this year is a unique opportunity. They can play in that upper end market if they so choose given the payroll space they have open. Believe it or not, I hope they do mama come away a better team for it.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Yeah. The same apologetic posters that saw the writing on the wall and understood a tear down was needed. The same ones that said the rebuild could bear fruit. And the same ones that caught hell from everyone else here for even suggesting that the Reds could possibly win the first trade with Seattle or that the rebuild would work.

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Respectfully, my issue with these statements is that it portrays the situation as binary. Either you supported a complete teardown and you get to take credit for all of the talent that came back or that you did not support a complete teardown and get to take credit for none of the talent that came back.

I don't think the level of unproven talent coming back was ever in question but a boatload of prime proven talent went out the door to get there. I don't think it needed to go as far as it did.

Sure, I'll take an L on the Suarez/Winker trade. I hated it as I did not anticipate Winker's impending cliff. If you did, congrats.

I sure would have liked to have Gray and/or Castillo in the rotation last season though.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

There are millions of Camry’s are you’re not bidding against anyone else and the price is fixed. It’s more like buying a house. Say you want to buy in a certain area…let’s call that area shortstop….in a certain price range….top of the market. Let’s call it $750k. There are 5 $750K houses for sale in the area and 7 or so buyers. You have 750-775 to spend. You could possibly be putting in competitive offers for each one and still be outbid. You could have a situation where you actually put in the highest bid, but the other guy waived inspections….which I would say is the equivalent of a player wanting to play somewhere else despite the money. No matter what in that situation, 2 guys will be left out at the end of the day…regardless of how much of a real effort they made. Are they liars? Or was that just how the chips fell?

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The analogy you have does not work, because all the premium FA shortstops were going to cost MINIMUM of 10 million/year.
Reds only had 2-3 million to spend, based on what they offered that guy that ended up going to the Mets.
Reds can claim they "talked to the agents", but they had no serious offer.
It's like when Bowden joked that he offered Kevin Brown a 10 year deal, for one million per year. (Or something similar to that, it was a joke he told).

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Originally Posted by WrongVerb

Well, this is out there, but I can't tell if it's an informed rumor or idle speculation. I think it's based on something Leatherpants wrote in the Athletic.

https://twitter.com/Nati_Sports/stat...04676355129372

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If they manage to get Houck plus the 80 grade name of Wikelman Gonzales for Jonathan India, I will consider that a pretty big win.

Houck fits as a middle relief bullpenner.

I hate to say it but I don't think the Reds are going to be very active in trying to get top tier pitching whether it's by free agency or trade. After all the bigger salaries...errrr names have gone off the market, Krall and Co. will look for 3rd tier starters and rely on the youngsters currently penciled in to the rotation much like last year. But we all knew how that worked out. The excuses will be similar or identical to why they weren't more active at the trade deadline. They could prove me wrong but I don't think so.

That said, quite a few fans want the Reds to sign someone or make a deal no matter what. They are like junkies needing their next fixes. I believe some are sincere in wanting the Reds to improve but is just acquiring anyone a solution? The Cardinals signed Lance Lynn. Would that have been a good idea or would that have been better than nothing? Of course they have the money to do it but is that the best use of that? And piggybacking off the Lynn example, I think some want deals so they can criticize management for making that deal. Worst. Deal. Ever. You tend to get more attention by being negative than positive. The Reds will do what the Reds will do. I think it's highly unlikely we as fans can shame them into spending like a drunken sailor on leave.

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Originally Posted by Chip R

I hate to say it but I don't think the Reds are going to be very active in trying to get top tier pitching whether it's by free agency or trade. After all the bigger salaries...errrr names have gone off the market, Krall and Co. will look for 3rd tier starters and rely on the youngsters currently penciled in to the rotation much like last year. But we all knew how that worked out. The excuses will be similar or identical to why they weren't more active at the trade deadline. They could prove me wrong but I don't think so.

That said, quite a few fans want the Reds to sign someone or make a deal no matter what. They are like junkies needing their next fixes. I believe some are sincere in wanting the Reds to improve but is just acquiring anyone a solution? The Cardinals signed Lance Lynn. Would that have been a good idea or would that have been better than nothing? Of course they have the money to do it but is that the best use of that? And piggybacking off the Lynn example, I think some want deals so they can criticize management for making that deal. Worst. Deal. Ever. You tend to get more attention by being negative than positive. The Reds will do what the Reds will do. I think it's highly unlikely we as fans can shame them into spending like a drunken sailor on leave.

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Translation: Reds are going to be the Reds no matter how much people wish they would not be the Reds, because folks that's what the Reds are all about and have always been, because being the Reds is what the Reds do best.

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Originally Posted by Chip R

I hate to say it but I don't think the Reds are going to be very active in trying to get top tier pitching whether it's by free agency or trade. After all the bigger salaries...errrr names have gone off the market, Krall and Co. will look for 3rd tier starters and rely on the youngsters currently penciled in to the rotation much like last year. But we all knew how that worked out. The excuses will be similar or identical to why they weren't more active at the trade deadline. They could prove me wrong but I don't think so.

That said, quite a few fans want the Reds to sign someone or make a deal no matter what. They are like junkies needing their next fixes. I believe some are sincere in wanting the Reds to improve but is just acquiring anyone a solution? The Cardinals signed Lance Lynn. Would that have been a good idea or would that have been better than nothing? Of course they have the money to do it but is that the best use of that? And piggybacking off the Lynn example, I think some want deals so they can criticize management for making that deal. Worst. Deal. Ever. You tend to get more attention by being negative than positive. The Reds will do what the Reds will do. I think it's highly unlikely we as fans can shame them into spending like a drunken sailor on leave.

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Lynn would have been a mistake (as I think it will prove to be for the Cardinals). I wouldn't have been upset if the Reds had signed Kyle Gibson, but I think you can still find someone of his caliber who can eat as many innings for less than the 12 mil that the Cards paid. And I hope the Reds do find someone like that.

I do not have faith that they'll do something big.

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Originally Posted by Larry Schuler

You have three Chevy Novas. One has a million dollars in its trunk and the other two have petrified pumpkin pies from last year’s Thanksgiving. You have to pick one and eat whatever is in the trunk. The Reds are the Chevy Nova with the million dollars. You are the Chevy Nova with the petrified pumpkin pie and he is the other Chevy Nova with a petrified pumpkin pie. Who is he? Exactly. No one knows. What some Reds fan here are doing when they say the Reds aren’t doing an awesome job is saying they know who “he” is. But that’s unknowable and it’s a lie to say you know who he is. What we do know is that a million dollars may not taste delicious to some but you are a Chevy Nova with petrified pumpkin pie in the trunk and your options are to eat that million dollars or choose yourself and eat your own petrified pumpkin pie or choose the unknown and eat their petrified pumpkin pie. If you ask me, I’d eat a million dollars over petrified pumpkin pie any day and I know there are people who will eat petrified pumpkin pie and then tell us it’s our fault they chose wrong.

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But what if the host opens one of the Novas containing a pumpkin pie and offers you a choice to switch?

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Originally Posted by Chip R

I hate to say it but I don't think the Reds are going to be very active in trying to get top tier pitching whether it's by free agency or trade. After all the bigger salaries...errrr names have gone off the market, Krall and Co. will look for 3rd tier starters and rely on the youngsters currently penciled in to the rotation much like last year. But we all knew how that worked out. The excuses will be similar or identical to why they weren't more active at the trade deadline. They could prove me wrong but I don't think so.

That said, quite a few fans want the Reds to sign someone or make a deal no matter what. They are like junkies needing their next fixes. I believe some are sincere in wanting the Reds to improve but is just acquiring anyone a solution? The Cardinals signed Lance Lynn. Would that have been a good idea or would that have been better than nothing? Of course they have the money to do it but is that the best use of that? And piggybacking off the Lynn example, I think some want deals so they can criticize management for making that deal. Worst. Deal. Ever. You tend to get more attention by being negative than positive. The Reds will do what the Reds will do. I think it's highly unlikely we as fans can shame them into spending like a drunken sailor on leave.

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I want the Reds to improve. There’s no reason—other than cheapness—why they can’t. The Reds have painted themselves into a plausible deniability corner. They’ve never had a payroll this low, relatively speaking, in this century. Shrugging and saying, “We couldn’t do it” means one thing only: They’re inactive because they’re insanely cheap for cheap’s sake. No other excuse holds water.