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Ryan Howard's contract is often cited as the worst in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
It doesn't matter though. The Phillies pursuing Logan has nothing to do with whether or not he is any good.
I would agree that the Phils probably don't view him has one of the worst in the game. But that doesn't make it so.
[QUOTE=BuckeyeRedleg;2677994]You must have really exercised a lot of restraint to get that extra remark in yes? So much for the high road and agreeing to disagree. Classy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
There really isn't a right or wrong. It's a matter of opinion. Someone trying to make this a black/white issue is really missing the big picture. But if you don't want to rise above the fray, feel free to tell me how wrong I am again.
Ryan Howard is also one of the best hitters in the league, and they were able to afford him and won a World Series by keeping him around. So I'm not sure how that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldaniels
The point is, the Phillies clearly were able to identify talent rather well or they'd never have gotten where they did.
The Phillies wanting him doesn't make it so, but give me a choice between the opinions of fans and the opinions of the Phillies, and I know who I'd rather have making choices on personnel.
C'mon. Quit getting personal. You are the one that jumped into this debate and haven't really provided anything objective to make me think you're not just arguing for the sake of arguing. In fact, I think you are missing the big picture to even argue the point I initially made. I guess we can agree to disagree, but again, no need to take a cheap shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
There was a rumor last season or so that the Phillies wanted to trade for Paul Janish, he of the sub .600 OPS last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
1. Ryan Howard has not been "one of the best hitters in baseball" for a few years now. That gap has closed. As a poor fielding 1st sacker with no baserunning skills, his contract is not a good one. The Phils got that very wrong.
2. Besides ERA, which we all know doesnt work well in predicting the future, in what way is O even average?
OK want something objective?Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg
OPS against Logan Ondrusek this year: .633
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01-pitch.shtml
NL average OPS against by all relievers: .719
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...g=NL&year=2012
There's your objectivity. And for the record, his career OPS against is .664, so he'd be an above-average reliever in any year he's pitched thus far. And all I'm arguing is that he's an average reliever. But his OPS against has actually been consistently above-average for relief pitchers.
What did you say about selection bias again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
K/9, BB/9, FIP, WAR. How does he do there? So his BABIP is great. Super.
I'm bowing out, but this is much better than "he's ok cause the Phillies like him"Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
OPS takes into account strikeouts, walks, homers, etc. So how is it a selection bias to use a number that takes into account almost everything? It's good enough for hitters yet it's biased to use for a pitcher?Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg
His career OPS against is 60 points below the current national league average for relievers. Even if you regress his BABIP, he's still at the average (which is what I've been arguing all along!!!)
OPS against doesn't tell the whole story, obviously, but neither does FIP (which doesn't take into account anything about what happens in the field of play which analysts are now of the belief isn't prudent).
All of this gets us back to where we started... something that cannot be proven or disproven. It's a matter of opinion. As I said, I think he's average, you don't agree.
Wow, what an incredible win. Not gonna lie, I turned the game off and walked outside and followed along on my phone after that eighth inning. Dusty had me fuming after using Ondrusek in that situation, and then leaving him in way too long. Glad to see Stubbs come through again!
Ondrusek has pitched over 150 innings in the majors and has a .246 BABIP. It never has been higher than .257 in his career.
Considering ths reserch has shown that releivers have been to maintain low BABIP over their careers, it is not illogical to assume that Ondrusek's low BABIP is a reflection of his true skill level.
Besically, using FIP and other DIPS stats to evaluate relievers like Ondusek is not very accurate, nor effective at predicting future ERA. Or more simply, Ondusek isn't as bad as his FIP or xFIP says he is.
That said, I still would have brought in Marshall to face the lefty.
SOOOOOOOOO mad. My internet feed died, right at the end of the astros 8th inning. I completely missed the 9th. Aaaarrrrrgh!
:clap: Well done boys! Bust out the brooms yet again! 7 in a row baby! :O)
LOL at you guys. Arguing and debating and getting ticked off about Logan....I wonder if any of you noticed that we won, we continue to win and are leading the division...still. Logan can be good, Logan can be bad. Same can be said for EVERY reliever. Tonight, he was bad. But he's only 1 man on a 25 man roster. The other 24 picked him up. Look on the bright side every once in a while guys.
Well said Charles. Enjoy the win. This team is incredible right now. They are showing heart and as much grit as any Reds team in recent memory. Ondrusek probably should be dropped back in the bullpen rotation. Move LeCure and Simon up and make LO the long man. I think the heavy workload over the couple of years has taken its toll on him and he needs the rest of season off or very limited innings.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_
But basically, enjoy this. This is great after having to go through most of the 2000's with just awful teams to root for.