Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

lol

Based on a projected revenue this year of $290 million, the Reds, if they spent 45% on payroll, would have a payroll this year of $130.5 million. They are currently looking at about $100-110 million opening day payroll, so that should mean they would have $20-$30 million in payflex for next year.

It's not payflex if you don't use it. It's just money that isn't being spent. And that's what they've done the entire time they've owned the team, except for 2013-2014, and then they ruined that by dropping below 40 for multiple years and then just going back to where they were before.

The idea that they will use payflex in the future is evidence not in the record.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

And no crap they’re pocketing some of the money. I’ve said that and I said I flat don’t care. They are running a business and not a charity. As Caveat Emperor posted unless a team has publicly show their finances they are going to BS about it. You’re getting upset over the level of BS that practically any ownership group spins.

---

What other owner groups are dumb enough to say over and over again that they are putting every dollar they earn back into the team? Nobody would be against them making a profit, but it's their own stupidity that puts them in this.

It’s wild to me that regular ass fans would be willing to say “I don’t care if my favorite team trades off players and pockets the money, it’s not a charity after all”. You don’t have to defend to ultra wealthy, Castellini would not so much as piss on you if you were on fire.

- - - Updated - - -

It sure as hell is a charity for them though when they need a new ballpark financed by taxpayer dollars

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

No, we really can't.

You assume so much in your little hypothetical here.

We don't know that the Reds are going to spend that money on anything. They say they are. They have a history of pocketing that extra cash, as shown in LP's work over the entire course of this thread. You should probably read those. We don't know we have a bunch of guys who can cover 3B. We have Moustakas and Solano currently-- both of those are question marks. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if either Pham or Solano come within half of Winker's production. Fraley is a cypher. Dunn has a bum shoulder. Phillips is a scratch-off lottery ticket. You assume they'll somehow provide excess value...?

Finally, and I can't believe this has to be said: neither Solano nor Pham has anything to do with Winker. The Reds could have signed both and Michael Conforto and a whole outfield of producers. Instead, they cheaped out. Again. They took their cash and went home. You want to add free agents to trade acquisitions to prospects. Pretty easy to make the math work if you can add everyone possible.

But it doesn't make the deal or the Reds any more palatable.

---

Any future prognostication has assumptions built in. It’s not that hard to assume that Pham and Solano are linked to the Ms deal because Krall said we are under budget enough to pursue FA and those are the guys they signed for damn near what Suarez was set to make. And unless Suarez quits uppercutting at flies, they should add more to the team too. To outperform him and make up for a chunk of Winker.

Great the Reds should have done this and should have done that. I’m interested in discussing what they actually did. We can all form hypotheticals where they did better. The Reds have set themselves up to have a young solid core. A pipeline of pitchers and money to spare in the coming years. People need to quit acting like they disbanded a World Series team. They tore down a team that barely finished a tick above 500. They likely took 1 step back to take more forward in the future. I’m ok with that because the pervious model was spend money and prospect capital and hope it breaks right and you finish 500ish. Let them realign. Go younger. More athletic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

It’s wild to me that regular ass fans would be willing to say “I don’t care if my favorite team trades off players and pockets the money, it’s not a charity after all”. You don’t have to defend to ultra wealthy, Castellini would not so much as piss on you if you were on fire.

- - - Updated - - -

It sure as hell is a charity for them though when they need a new ballpark financed by taxpayer dollars

---

Dude. Most people wouldnt piss on anyone if they were on fire outside of their family. Money has nothing to do with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Dude. Most people wouldnt piss on anyone if they were on fire outside of their family. Money has nothing to do with it.

---

I’m pretty cynical, but even I’m not cynical enough to believe that most people are completely selfish and uncaring about other people.

Castellini is glad to let the people of Hamilton county pony up for him, he’s not willing to do the same in return for us. He’s actively robbing the average people of Cincinnati. Why go to bat for that? It is so bizarre to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I’m pretty cynical, but even I’m not cynical enough to believe that most people are completely selfish and uncaring about other people.

Castellini is glad to let the people of Hamilton county pony up for him, he’s not willing to do the same in return for us. He’s actively robbing the average people of Cincinnati. Why go to bat for that? It is so bizarre to me.

---

Even if you believe that, it still has nothing to do with the amount of wealth they have.

The issue for me is they got nothing for Miley when lesser pitchers get at least some return, they got a poor return on Gray, the sold low on Suarez and by attaching him to Winker, sold low on Winker as well. None of the savings was invested in future assets or building blocks, but just on cosmetic moves with aging stopgaps.

Mike Minor, Donovan Solano, Colin Moran and Tommy Pham will be making a collective $22 Million or so this year, but its not an investment in building a winning team, its just a cosmetic move to bring in a few recognizable names to a team that is going to win less than 80 games. That money won't help the Reds rebuild in any way and if they win 73 games as opposed to 76 or 77, its not going to matter. Do something of consequence with the savings, not stopgaps who won't help this team become a winner down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Even if you believe that, it still has nothing to do with the amount of wealth they have.

---

1000% totally incorrect. Just stick your head outside and look at the state of the world right now. Good lord.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I’m pretty cynical, but even I’m not cynical enough to believe that most people are completely selfish and uncaring about other people.

Castellini is glad to let the people of Hamilton county pony up for him, he’s not willing to do the same in return for us. He’s actively robbing the average people of Cincinnati. Why go to bat for that? It is so bizarre to me.

---

Robbing them how? Because their taxes pay for the stadium? That was put in place for Castellini. I don’t think there’s a single person here that would run a business with a $0 net income every year regardless of what the capital gain would be when they sell it. You still need to show some sort of income and or profit annually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mth123

The issue for me is they got nothing for Miley when lesser pitchers get at least some return, they gt a poor return on Gray, the sold low on Suarez and by attaching him to Winker, sold low on Winker as well. None of the savings was invested in future assets or building blocks, but just on cosmetic moves with aging stopgaps.

Mike Minor, Donovan Solano, Colin Moran and Tommy Pham will be making a collective $22 Million or so this year, but its not an investment in building a winning team, its just a cosmetic move to bring in a few recognizable names to a team that is going to win less than 80 games. That money won't help the Reds rebuild in any way and if they win 73 games as opposed to 76 or 77, its not going to matter. Do something of consequence with the savings, not stopgaps who won't help this team become a winner down the road.

---

Exactly!

They've got people so convinced that they are poor that they can literally do anything and they'll have people defending them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Robbing them how? Because their taxes pay for the stadium? That was put in place for Castellini. I don’t think there’s a single person here that would run a business with a $0 net income every year regardless of what the capital gain would be when they sell it. You still need to show some sort of income and or profit annually.

---

Saying that other people think they should never turn a profit is a complete strawman. They are turning plenty of profit. That’s not remotely an issue for them.

Also yeah I’m sure Castellini will pony up out of his pocket come time for replacing or renovating GABP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

1000% totally incorrect. Just stick your head outside and look at the state of the world right now. Good lord.

---

I do. I happen to be in a situation where I can rub elbows with both the wealthy and the poor. And there are great people in each group and compete piles of garbage in each group. For whatever reason a lot of people have been warped to believe that there’s evil in being successful and grace in being poor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Robbing them how? Because their taxes pay for the stadium? That was put in place for Castellini. I don’t think there’s a single person here that would run a business with a $0 net income every year regardless of what the capital gain would be when they sell it. You still need to show some sort of income and or profit annually.

---

We will continue to return all of the financial support we receive from our fans, business partners and MLB back into the Reds.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/reds-c...bob-castellini

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeatherPants

We will continue to return all of the financial support we receive from our fans, business partners and MLB back into the Reds.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/reds-c...bob-castellini

---

Yes. Likely BS. But they said the Reds. Not the Reds MLB payroll.

Hoarding wealth notoriously has no consequences on the rest of society at large. For sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

I do. I happen to be in a situation where I can rub elbows with both the wealthy and the poor. And there are great people in each group and compete piles of garbage in each group. For whatever reason a lot of people have been warped to believe that there’s evil in being successful and grace in being poor.

---

Buddy if you honestly believe that the ultra wealthy got that way just by doing good old fashioned honest hard work, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s one of the most naive things I’ve ever heard in my life, to put it as politely as I possibly can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Hoarding wealth notoriously has no consequences on the rest of society at large. For sure.

---

There’s really no way to respond to this that’s appropriate on the baseball side of the forum.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Buddy if you honestly believe that the ultra wealthy got that way just by doing good old fashioned honest hard work, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s one of the most naive things I’ve ever heard in my life, to put it as politely as I possibly can.

---

There’s really no way to respond to this that’s appropriate on the baseball side of the forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Yes. Likely BS. But they said the Reds. Not the Reds MLB payroll.

---

At this point, I'd do somersaults if they would just spend what they've spent on a percentage basis, what they've spent since Bob took control of the team.

Aside from the three years they dipped below 40% (2016-2018), they've averaged 45.5% of revenue, which would put this year at $132 million. Unless you think they've been losing money for 16 years, there's no reason they shouldn't be there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

Yes. Likely BS. But they said the Reds. Not the Reds MLB payroll.

---

Semantics.

It is as this point that I see there's nothing anyone can do to convince you that Red management is run by penurious buttheads who are looking chiefly to make as much money as possible at the cost of my favorite team. I will therefore disengage from interacting with you on this topic. Suffice to say, we disagree about Red management and lying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee

Semantics.

It is as this point that I see there's nothing anyone can do to convince you that Red management is run by penurious buttheads who are looking chiefly to make as much money as possible at the cost of my favorite team. I will therefore disengage from interacting with you on this topic. Suffice to say, we disagree about Red management and lying.

---

No. It’s not semantics. The Reds aren’t just the big league payroll. We all know this. But it does prove my point. It’s owner/GM speak BS. He said one thing and you heard another. All clubs are trying to make as much money as possible with an exception of a year here and there. Some clubs are basically playing with Monopoly money and others aren’t.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I base my thoughts on what I see the Reds *do*. I ceased believing what they say. At least for the time being.

If I squint at what they’re doing and do best case/worst case, I can see where they think they might have a successful season. I’m not bought into it, but on a certain planet, I can see how they think they might compete.

So, I’ll wait and watch and hope for the best. I got bigger fish to fry for now so I’m not wasting emotion on it.

---

I'm not going to waste emotion on it either -- but the Reds have turned me into an apathetic fan of the club. I still love the sport, but the local product is getting 0 buy in from me until the owners demonstrate they're in this for something beyond enriching their already wealthy bank account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

When you run with the Rays model you cannot be fixated on the names on the backs of the jerseys, they are not long for the team in most cases and it is highly unlikely you will see them for more than 5 years. The only name that matters is the one on the front. The Reds try to make both equally important without fully committing to either and as a result they are a perennial 75-80 win team.

---

Excellent points. I do believe the Reds are trying to model the Rays. I think they want to win but they want to do it like the Rays do. But doing it here is extra tough on fans. I'm sure Rays fans are disappointed and more than likely angry when their best players get traded/waived/become free agents. But it's an easier sell for their fans. Mainly because they have only been around for a little over 20 years. It's not impossible but it's tough to build up a loyal fan base in 20 years. They have also been a losing team for many of those years. It's also tough to have a loyal fan base when they have been losers for the vast majority of their existence. They also do not draw very well. Some of that is because of where the stadium is but if fans stop going to games, how are they going to know?

For Reds fans it's more difficult because of the history and past success of the organization. There have been generations and generations of Reds fans. We get attached to these players and it hurts when they leave. And this front office has not yet shown the talent for procuring excellent returns like the Rays have. If Nick Krall doesn't get good value on his returns, he's going to be fired and some other lackey is going to take his place and do the same thing and we can only hope he is better than his predecessor.

This front office is not competent enough to pull off a “Rays model”, if they were they wouldn’t have given Miley away for free to a division rival, and then turned around and replaced him with a dude with the same salary but with a junk shoulder. Just for one example.

And nobody should want them to do a Rays model either, there’s a reason they don’t have any fans and it’s not just because of where the Trop is located. Modern sports fandom in general is more tied to individual players and personalities than ever. People aren’t going to stick around when their favorite players get the boot after coming up and being good for their team for just a couple years. It’s such a cynical bummer of a way to run a franchise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

No. It’s not semantics. The Reds aren’t just the big league payroll. We all know this. But it does prove my point. It’s owner/GM speak BS. He said one thing and you heard another. All clubs are trying to make as much money as possible with an exception of a year here and there. Some clubs are basically playing with Monopoly money and others aren’t.

---

You've already moved the goalposts so far I'm not sure there's any room left, LOL.

"Tell me once when they lied."

"OK they lied once in 15 years."

"OK but that's not a lie that I'm upset about, I'd be upset if lied about... something else I guess"

"You have to expect that they are lying. Corporate BS or something. GM speak. These phrases somehow justify the lying, so it's not the lying I was asking about. I was obviously asking about lying that is no covered under the corporate BS/GM speak provision."

It's pathetic dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

This front office is not competent enough to pull off a “Rays model”, if they were they wouldn’t have given Miley away for free to a division rival, and then turned around and replaced him with a dude with the same salary but with a junk shoulder. Just for one example.

And nobody should want them to do a Rays model either, there’s a reason they don’t have any fans and it’s not just because of where the Trop is located. Modern sports fandom in general is more tied to individual players and personalities than ever. People aren’t going to stick around when their favorite players get the boot after coming up and being good for their team for just a couple years. It’s such a cynical bummer of a way to run a franchise.

---

Just to be clear, when I brought up the rays model, I specifically pointed out you need a competent GM, and the Reds do not have one. I've been banging this drum for well over a year now.

With that said, it is absolutely a cynical way to run a ballclub, but it works if done correctly. Call me crazy, but I would rather see a winning ballclub than a mediocre ballclub that is running out 32 year old Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips types.

Basically, the way the Rays do it is a busines, they get results. Giving big extensions to fan favorites is fan service that rarely works.

Could the owners likely afford a $200 million payroll? Yes. Will they? No. So, if the answer is no, why screw around and not commit to the only potential way of assembling a winning ballclub with those (artificial as they may be) financial constraints?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

This front office is not competent enough to pull off a “Rays model”, if they were they wouldn’t have given Miley away for free to a division rival, and then turned around and replaced him with a dude with the same salary but with a junk shoulder. Just for one example.

And nobody should want them to do a Rays model either, there’s a reason they don’t have any fans and it’s not just because of where the Trop is located. Modern sports fandom in general is more tied to individual players and personalities than ever. People aren’t going to stick around when their favorite players get the boot after coming up and being good for their team for just a couple years. It’s such a cynical bummer of a way to run a franchise.

---

I live in Tampa. There is a good reason that they have bad attendance trop itself and location is a big one. The marketing department is bad. Also you can not use cash at games and you must have a smart phone to go to games. There are no paper tickets. The viewship of games is very high. I am a baseball fan and I rather go to a Lightning game before a Rays games. Technically I am closer to St Pete where the Rays play than I am Lightning. It is easier to get to and leave. The parking is better and there is more to do near the park. The experience in Amalie area is also way better than Tropicana. The Buccaneers and Lightning draw way better because they are way better experiences. It is way better to just watch the Rays on TV than go through the trouble to go to the game is person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

Just to be clear, when I brought up the rays model, I specifically pointed out you need a competent GM, and the Reds do not have one. I've been banging this drum for well over a year now.

With that said, it is absolutely a cynical way to run a ballclub, but it works if done correctly. Call me crazy, but I would rather see a winning ballclub than a mediocre ballclub that is running out 32 year old Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips types.

Basically, the way the Rays do it is a busines, they get results. Giving big extensions to fan favorites is fan service that rarely works.

Could the owners likely afford a $200 million payroll? Yes. Will they? No. So, if the answer is no, why screw around and not commit to the only potential way of assembling a winning ballclub with those (artificial as they may be) financial constraints?

---

I mean it’s not out of the realm of possibility to take an in between approach. And if it is for the Reds, that’s why I’m out until they pull their heads out of their ass, and based on the news tidbit that started this thread I’m not the only one.

They can and should field a 130-150 million dollar payroll every year. That’s well within the means if you don’t view your franchise solely as a personal ATM.

I just have zero interest in being invested in a sports team where you inherently are told you shouldn’t ever have a favorite player because they will be gone immediately. It’s just not for me. More power to anyone who can make that work for themselves, but I have never been a “just rooting for the laundry” type of fan. Both the team itself and the individual players are equally important to me.

If the Reds are just going to trade Hunter Greene for example as soon as he hits his first arb year instead of investing some money in him, then this team is just for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NachoMan

You've already moved the goalposts so far I'm not sure there's any room left, LOL.

"Tell me once when they lied."

"OK they lied once in 15 years."

"OK but that's not a lie that I'm upset about, I'd be upset if lied about... something else I guess"

"You have to expect that they are lying. Corporate BS or something. GM speak. These phrases somehow justify the lying, so it's not the lying I was asking about. I was obviously asking about lying that is no covered under the corporate BS/GM speak provision."

It's pathetic dude.

---

I’ll remember next time to spell out all of my thoughts in a 10 paragraph long post next time to start. Those had been my thoughts and feelings from my first post on the subject. Next time I’ll know better and spell everything out in a treatise my first post rather than having an organic conversation so all goalposts are safely secured

I’ve seen the payroll dumping, but I haven’t seen the smart yet. When is the smart going to start?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

I appreciate the optimism, and won’t make fun of you for it. However, I don’t think FA hitters of much note will ever want to come to Cincinnati. Castellanos was a unicorn, perfect storm type situation. He wasn’t getting the kind of deal he wanted and the Reds came in and gave him a deal with good money and opt-outs after every season. It was a show-me contract with good insurance if he either got injured or fell off a cliff. Made sense for Cast. Rest is history. Other FA deals will either be signing over the hill hitters trying to recoup their value with GABP and overpays for aging players (like Moose).

Frankly, as much as I hate to say it, the “sustainability model” or whatever is really the only chance we have to see a winner. We have to be the Rays. It’s the only way in reality. I know, I know, #selltheteambob. But, even if Bob does sell its way more likely the next owner is just another Bob than it is Mark Cuban or like the dude that bought the Mets. It’s fantasy.

Again, not saying I like it, but I’m starting to think this is the only way.

---

Castellanos also made the Griffey Jr mistake and thought the Reds were going to build a winning team.
However, he was smart enough to put opt outs in, so he was not stuck here the rest of his career on a below market contract.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

Forget championships. If you think the numbers I showed above indicate success, have garnered respect around the league and trust that the current leadership suddenly knows how to run a team because they latched onto a new buzzword, rock on. I'm envious of the optimism.

Do I think a "Rays-like" model can be successful? Absolutely. Do I TRUST they can execute it? Nope. My trust bank is overdrawn with this crew. I'm at the "show me" stage

---

We are closer to the Pirates and Marlins model than we are the Rays model.
Not as bad as Pirates/Marlins yet, we still have a few more peaks to level out.
I hope it does not get that bad. Those tanking years were awful and produced relatively little fruit.

1. baseball moves and money saving moves are not mutually exclusive. A move can arguably accomplish both goals.
2. There a certain level of BSery that goes into speaking to the public when in a corporate, public or political role. I don’t like it. But it’s the nature of the beast. Is it being less than honest or lying. Likely. But we’d be getting that regardless of who was in charge. It’s the GM and owner speak that was cited as lies. Yes, it’s lies, but to me it’s not material because it’s included in the level of BSery that would come from any ownership group
3. RTGs point about SS was valid to me because it wasn’t GM speak BSery. The Reds said they would do something and then did not. It appeared to be a material lie. The Reds did appear to be in on every SS at the time. Was the lie due to malice or incompetence in negotiating. To me each is bad but malice has a higher level of culpability. I lean towards incompetence.
4. Lying and incompetence are not the same thing.
5. It’s ok for the owners to make money.
6. Since 2010 I think the Reds have been generally honest about their plans and actions while not always being competent in the execution. Yes, they have engaged in GM speak, but so has every other organization or basically every other ownership group that could have come in here save a unicorn or two. That level of BS is to be expected. Show me a material lie in the overall plans of the club? They have added when they said they’d add, they’ve rebuilt when they have said they’d rebuild and have realigned resources when they have said they’d do that. Their execution doesn’t make them the most competent along that journey and yes the owner has made some money along the way and that’s ok.
7. Being wrong about a baseball decision doesn’t make you a liar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

When? They arguably over extended the payroll in 2010-2013. The 2014-2018 rebuild, they were honest about, they just bungled a lot of the player deals. 2019 they said they were adding and they did. 2020 they said they were adding and they did. 2021 they had probably hit their payroll limit due to the lack of income over covid and built a pisser of a bullpen. 2022 they said they’d go this new course and they have.

---

Quote:

---

Many believe the upcoming season is going to be a long one. Krall says the team isn't in a rebuilding mode, but given the player movement you'd have a difficult time suggesting otherwise.

---

If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REDREAD

If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

---

In regard to another post you made…fruits of the rebuild. I get how the trades didn’t work but you gotta be kidding if you don’t think the prospects didnt. They account for a good hunk of the starters and guys that will be up and coming.

As far as this years team, somethings will have to break right. IMO namely Senzel and the young pitching. If that goes well, it’s plausible they’ll be in the same neighborhood as last years club.

Phil's still mesmerized by fidget spinners as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REDREAD

If this season is not rebuilding, what is it? He seriously expects us to believe that this team is as good (or better) than last year's team?
At least have the guts to say "yes, we have to rebuild" . That is another lie.

Source:
https://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...wn/7045031001/

---

If I were to take the rosiest, most optimistic view. All of our new stable of starters will get healthy and be successful. So DJ picks the core and the Reds then take one or two of the remainders and turn them into a 5-tool corner OF to anchor the regular lineup. The realist in me thinks, "It's all going to Hell, another lost decade, they're doomed." :evil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old school 1983

1. baseball moves and money saving moves are not mutually exclusive. A move can arguably accomplish both goals.
2. There a certain level of BSery that goes into speaking to the public when in a corporate, public or political role. I don’t like it. But it’s the nature of the beast. Is it being less than honest or lying. Likely. But we’d be getting that regardless of who was in charge. It’s the GM and owner speak that was cited as lies. Yes, it’s lies, but to me it’s not material because it’s included in the level of BSery that would come from any ownership group
3. RTGs point about SS was valid to me because it wasn’t GM speak BSery. The Reds said they would do something and then did not. It appeared to be a material lie. The Reds did appear to be in on every SS at the time. Was the lie due to malice or incompetence in negotiating. To me each is bad but malice has a higher level of culpability. I lean towards incompetence.
4. Lying and incompetence are not the same thing.
5. It’s ok for the owners to make money.
6. Since 2010 I think the Reds have been generally honest about their plans and actions while not always being competent in the execution. Yes, they have engaged in GM speak, but so has every other organization or basically every other ownership group that could have come in here save a unicorn or two. That level of BS is to be expected. Show me a material lie in the overall plans of the club? They have added when they said they’d add, they’ve rebuilt when they have said they’d rebuild and have realigned resources when they have said they’d do that. Their execution doesn’t make them the most competent along that journey and yes the owner has made some money along the way and that’s ok.
7. Being wrong about a baseball decision doesn’t make you a liar.

---

You keep saying it’s ok if they make money except the only people that are saying otherwise are the Reds themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeatherPants

You keep saying it’s ok if they make money except the only people that are saying otherwise are the Reds themselves.

---

File under owner speak BS. What owner is going to flat come out and say yeah we’re pocketing all the cash.