Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

Big picture generalization:

We should be run like the Cleveland Indians*. They trade away players nearing big paychecks for highly sought after prospects. The Reds trade prospects for those players nearing free agency. See Choo and Bauer. In the end, Cleveland enjoys more sustained success despite a lower payroll. I think Krall and Co see that and are making the necessary moves to make that happen. I'm not impressed with the return so far. We've gotten 2 sore armed pitchers and some very young pitchers which is always a crap shoot. The Reds traded young players on the verge of the major leagues in the Bauer, Choo and the Mat Latos deal. That has to stop. It's not sustainable for us to trade such prospects. Latos, Bauer and Choo are long gone while guys like Trammell, Gregorius, Grandal and Boxberger are still playing and had long careers

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

I would have kept Miley , Gray and Winker. Maybe Suarez..
Gray and Miley wouldn't have blocked Greene or Lodollo.. Right now we have Vlad and San Martin in the rotation (I think).
The rotation could have been Castillo, Mahle, Gray, Lodollo and Greene.
It usually takes more than 5 starting pitchers to make it through a season.
One of Lodollo or Greene could have pitched in relief this season.
I can understand Barnhart and Castanallos not coming back, and I applaud Shogo getting cut.

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So you’re paying 10M for Miley to pitch out of the pen? Why? Vlad earned a shot to start last year. He needs to be in there so you’re not paying 10m for your 4-5 starter in the next 5 years. You’re stunting that potential growth for Miley? The only reason SanMartin is in the rotation is injury. And as much as some people want top starting prospects to come out of the pen, it’s not 1985 anymore. Put them in the rotation and roll. Suarez was a must go. Idec if he bounces back. It wasn’t happening here and he’s been an anchor the past 2 seasons.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class"


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Here's the reason why Hamilton County builds stadiums, real estate

Look at the Reds ownership group a huge amount of them are in venture capital and real estate. People don't build stadiums anymore they build entertainment complexes with restaurants and shopping and other destinations. The county buys into it because it drives business to town and increases their tax base and the property values of the area around the stadium. The county has dipped their toe in this model three times in the last 55 years and its paid off for them, enhancing a former rough and tumble working riverfront into a destination area for consumers.

Developers love this stuff, they hire groups to grease the skids and promise political pawns that the growth will propel their aspirations as well

It's all about money, not baseball

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

moving the Reds would require litigating against the State of Ohio re: "Modell's Law." Major League Soccer thought better of their chances on that front a few years back when they decided to leave the Columbus Crew in place and just award Austin an expansion spot instead of a relocated franchise.

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IANAL, but I don't think the Modell Law would stand up in Federal court. It would be seen by the court as interfering with interstate commerce. The first team to challenge it will have to deal with the time and expense it takes to make the Federal case. MLS probably backed off, because it didn't want to create ill will against a state government while also planting a new franchise in another city in that state. The Guardians owner might not be excited about that notion, either.

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Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

My issues with the Reds isn't as much who they got rid of it's with the guys they're trying to sell us. Tommy Pham and Jake Fraley aren't major league players and they're getting defacto starting time so far this season and that's not likely to change. They don't understand windows and timing on trades with regards to player value and when it's at it's highest. You can't build a perpetual winner by a good minor league system simply on drafting. You have to continually reload it by trading some of your top MLB players when thier value is at it's peak. I have zero confidence that the bumbling stumbling Nick Krall can get the job done, especially with impulsive owners that are constantly waffling on being in or out. It's total ineptness, and it's a shame for the young core of this team that it's going to be wasted just like the young core of players they had back in the early 2010's.

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This all day long. Joey Votto deserved better. And to tell the fanbase to stfu and take it? Nah, I'm good.

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

My issues with the Reds isn't as much who they got rid of it's with the guys they're trying to sell us. Tommy Pham and Jake Fraley aren't major league players and they're getting defacto starting time so far this season and that's not likely to change. They don't understand windows and timing on trades with regards to player value and when it's at it's highest. You can't build a perpetual winner by a good minor league system simply on drafting. You have to continually reload it by trading some of your top MLB players when thier value is at it's peak. I have zero confidence that the bumbling stumbling Nick Krall can get the job done, especially with impulsive owners that are constantly waffling on being in or out. It's total ineptness, and it's a shame for the young core of this team that it's going to be wasted just like the young core of players they had back in the early 2010's.

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Pham and Fraely are MLB players.

People posted all last year that Geno no longer was too

I'm thinking the later might be truer than the former at this stage myself

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Originally Posted by NebraskaRed

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Sitcom snafu funny, tone deaf as hell.

A moment that will follow him around until he dies, it will be in his obituary

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Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Big picture generalization:

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Doesn't matter. The franchise cannot achieve success if they chart a new course every other off-season. They don't have the courage to actually hold a course and the eventual answer is always "cash it all in and start from scratch." We're going to win with a team of softball sluggers or with pitching and defense or a stellar rotation or with kids or with vets or with balance.

The words and intentions don't matter when they change every couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

So you’re paying 10M for Miley to pitch out of the pen? Why? Vlad earned a shot to start last year. He needs to be in there so you’re not paying 10m for your 4-5 starter in the next 5 years. You’re stunting that potential growth for Miley? The only reason SanMartin is in the rotation is injury. And as much as some people want top starting prospects to come out of the pen, it’s not 1985 anymore. Put them in the rotation and roll. Suarez was a must go. Idec if he bounces back. It wasn’t happening here and he’s been an anchor the past 2 seasons.

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No, Vlad, Greene, or Lodollo could pitch out of the pen. If they all outpitch Miley (which I doubt), then yea, you can move Miley to the pen or trade him, instead of giving him to the Cubs for free. Plenty of young pitchers have started in the bullpen. Lodollo and Greene probably have an innings cap anyhow. You could have started the year with Greene in the rotation and Lodollo in the pen, and then swapped them later in the year. It's literally impossible to have "Too much good pitching".
And San Martin being in the rotation proves my point. The Reds are very thin in the rotation. It takes more than 5 starters to make it through a season. They could have gone into the season planning to have a kid in the bullpen, then moved him to the rotation when Castillo was hurt.
10 million for Miley is a bargain in today's world, even if he regresses to a 2 WAR pitcher. Spending it on Miley is better than buying the retreads the Reds acquired and/or putting more money into Phil and Bob's pockets.

The worst part about this for me personally, is that I have an 8 year old who is ate up with sports, and 17 year old who has accompanied me on road trips to 13 different parks. We spent the winter going to PBS and made memories that will last a life time... They'll never forget the KC game. So at risk of not going full Chris Carpenter here, I have a difficult time explaining to him (8 year old) why I'm ticked off at the Reds and why they are trading players like Winker. We went to multiple games last summer, he loved it... I took the oldest to Wrigley to watch them and we had a blast (along with a ton of TV time). They both are excited about making trips to GABP, and all I want to do is not give Bob a dime. I will relent because I don't want to take something away that we enjoy so much together. But man, Phil's comments yesterday burn right through me as I prepare to spend 2-3+ hundred dollars on weekend to trip to the park this summer. I'd much rather take them to PNC just so Bob doesn't directly get my money. It's truly infuriating.

Anyone want to guess what next year's payroll is going to look like?

Moose and Votto will combine for $43 million, and they are the only ones with guaranteed money for next year.

If the "plan" is to get younger and cheaper, I really think, after arbitration, they'll be at $75 million next year, and less in 2024 when Votto and Moose are gone.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

Here's the reason why Hamilton County builds stadiums, real estate

Look at the Reds ownership group a huge amount of them are in venture capital and real estate. People don't build stadiums anymore they build entertainment complexes with restaurants and shopping and other destinations. The county buys into it because it drives business to town and increases their tax base and the property values of the area around the stadium. The county has dipped their toe in this model three times in the last 55 years and its paid off for them, enhancing a former rough and tumble working riverfront into a destination area for consumers.

Developers love this stuff, they hire groups to grease the skids and promise political pawns that the growth will propel their aspirations as well

It's all about money, not baseball

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I seriously doubt the county recouped the cost of the stadiums. If the county did come out ahead, we would probably here about it a bunch. I'm pretty sure stadiums are considered a net loss. It is difficulty to accurately quantify, and we'll probably never know the true numbers. If I had to guess, it's probably a 50% or more loss overall.

"FWIW Indian Hill, Hyde Park, Terrace Park, Mariemont, Madeira are all in Hamilton County, plenty of "Upper Class""

I'm well aware of those areas, as well as Wyoming. They are very small pockets in the overall county. It'd be interesting to find out, but I'm guessing the majority of the money being spent at GABP is not from Hamilton County.

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Originally Posted by dfs

Doesn't matter. The franchise cannot achieve success if they chart a new course every other off-season. They don't have the courage to actually hold a course and the eventual answer is always "cash it all in and start from scratch." We're going to win with a team of softball sluggers or with pitching and defense or a stellar rotation or with kids or with vets or with balance.

The words and intentions don't matter when they change every couple of years.

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Not only do they not have the courage of going all in on a frequent reload, they fall in love with players to the point that it won't allow them to make the proper baseball decisions.

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Originally Posted by NebraskaRed

When you take a step back, it's incredibly funny that he said this on the Reds opening day.

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Also, wasn't his former position "VP of Marketing"? Or Chief Marketing Officer?

Marketing.

VP.

Ahh nepotism...

EDIT I stand corrected. He was VP of Business Operations. He's why GABP gets another bar or three whenever the Reds are about to "rebuild."