The Reds & and the new DH debate

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Originally Posted by jojo

Aaron Harang is probably going to attempt a bunt until he has 2 strikes unless the bases are loaded or he is in a 2 out situation. In those exceptions, Aaron Harang is going to wildly flail and almost certainly fail.

There really isn't the fertile strategic majesty that many seem to be suggesting.

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Because that's the only situation which is created by pitcher hitting baseball vs. the DH, right? If you're looking for "fertile strategic majesty," baseball might not even be the right sport for someone, but there is a lot more strategery (to quote the immortal Bugs Bunny, baseball rabbit) involved on a daily basis in the NL than the AL game. That is pretty much a given.

I am quite honestly surprised at the level of argumentation from you on this issue, jojo. You've now torched two strawmen, is that all you have here?

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Originally Posted by traderumor

Because that's the only situation which is created by pitcher hitting baseball vs. the DH, right? If you're looking for "fertile strategic majesty," baseball might not even be the right sport for someone, but there is a lot more strategery (to quote the immortal Bugs Bunny, baseball rabbit) involved on a daily basis in the NL than the AL game. That is pretty much a given.

I am quite honestly surprised at the level of argumentation from you on this issue, jojo. You've now torched two strawmen, is that all you have here?

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I haven't even lit a cigarette let alone set foot on a farm so no strawmen were injured during the creation of this discussion.

The AL and the NL styles present different sets of managerial decisions. One style makes you watch the guy batting 8th get pitched around so you can watch the pitcher try to hit. The other doesn't.

I greatly enjoy thinking about and debating roster management and concerning the game itself, outside of seeing great defensive plays (especially at key moments of the game) and the ballet that is good defense, and perhaps the suicide squeeze/play at the plate, my favorite part of the game is watching the battle between the pitcher and hitter.

The NL style literally dilutes that aspect of the experience (battle between pitcher and hitter). Stating that does not imply a moral judgement-it simply acknowledges a fact.

After watching Tim Lincecum hit, I decided it is a bad idea.

Atomic Dumpling keeps arguing about skill and then the answer is letting the pitcher hit.

I want the best stick up there and to watch that battle.

I don't want Lincecum versus Cliff Lee for six innings and then maybe, just maybe, Bruce Bochy has to make an exciting "decision" by letting the third string SS to hit.

NL baseball is anti climactic. You get a rally going and here comes the pitcher to kill it. Awful.

People who like pitcher's hitting are usually fans of "Yulee's Gold."

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Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

People who like pitcher's hitting are usually fans of "Yulee's Gold."

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<counterpoint> People who like the DH should watch more slow pitch softball.

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Originally Posted by Crumbley

What is the reasoning there? Are some kids too out of shape to run the bases or is it to just get more an opportunity to play?

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The designated runner is used in youth league games, mainly for the catcher, for the sole reason that most youth league games work on a time limit. Getting the catcher off the bases and back in the dugout to get his gear on saves time between innings which leads to more innings for the kids in the actual game.

As far as the DH for the NL? Never is my hope. I hate it.

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Originally Posted by jojo

I haven't even lit a cigarette let alone set foot on a farm so no strawmen were injured during the creation of this discussion.

The AL and the NL styles present different sets of managerial decisions. One style makes you watch the guy batting 8th get pitched around so you can watch the pitcher try to hit. The other doesn't.

I greatly enjoy thinking about and debating roster management and concerning the game itself, outside of seeing great defensive plays (especially at key moments of the game) and the ballet that is good defense, and perhaps the suicide squeeze/play at the plate, my favorite part of the game is watching the battle between the pitcher and hitter.

The NL style literally dilutes that aspect of the experience (battle between pitcher and hitter). Stating that does not imply a moral judgement-it simply acknowledges a fact.

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Again, so those are the only two differences in managing an NL and AL game?

This discussion seems to be about preference, yet folks claim their reasons are superior. It really is not much deeper than the women who root for a team because of the pretty team colors.

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Originally Posted by traderumor

Again, so those are the only two differences in managing an NL and AL game?

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Ive repeatedly said that the NL and AL styles present different SETS of managerial decisions. If you're truly worried about accurate contrasts, you need to question those who argue the AL style just allows the manager to sit on his hands.

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Originally Posted by traderumor

This discussion seems to be about preference, yet folks claim their reasons are superior. It really is not much deeper than the women who root for a team because of the pretty team colors.

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I've simply explained the reasons for my preference and argued that the notion that a "complete player" standard suggests the AL style is inferior really isn't valid because of the contradictions inherent in such a position. BTW, in an earlier post I've also qualified my preference as just that-not an absolute as reasonable people can disagree.

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Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

<counterpoint> People who like the DH should watch more slow pitch softball.

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Presumably Aaron Harang wouldn't need a DH to hit for him in slow-pitch.

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Originally Posted by jojo

Presumably Aaron Harang wouldn't need a DH to hit for him in slow-pitch.

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Yes he would. Have you seen that swing he has? :laugh:

If you're one of the 9 on the field, then you should be one of the 9 at the plate. If the pitcher is a horrbile hitter, then you have a horrible hitter in your lineup. Bat him last. This is not a new concept.

The DH only in the AL at this point is good for baseball. DH or no DH has its pros and cons, but it is one more thing that helps further define two separate leagues. (And for another discussion, I think there should be only one interleague series a year, being the last one played in October...)

I see introducing the DH to the NL will only lead to the castration of the sport. It's a slipper slope...Look at what the NFL is doing with the kickoff, or how tackling the QB is sometimes a penalty...It's a different (and less-great) game because of it.

I wouldn't point fingers at the MLBPA for support of this type of move, but more towards the executives, FO's, and others with their arms elbow-deep in the revenue generated by the sport. They're the ones with the influence powerful enough to change the rules.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

Yes he would. Have you seen that swing he has? :laugh:

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You're probably right. I conceed that Aaron Harang is not a complete player. :p

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Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

NL baseball is anti climactic.

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I'd argue there isn't a more suspenseful time in a baseball game than the extra-inning NL tilt where double-switches and pinch-hits have left a team without any additional pitchers and they're forced to send a backup SS to the mound for an inning or two.

It's like getting an entire bowl of marshmallows by random chance when you pour out your lucky charms.

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I'd argue there isn't a more suspenseful time in a baseball game than the extra-inning NL tilt where double-switches and pinch-hits have left a team without any additional pitchers and they're forced to send a backup SS to the mound for an inning or two.

It's like getting an entire bowl of marshmallows by random chance when you pour out your lucky charms.

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Aaron Harang HATES those types of games.

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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I'd argue there isn't a more suspenseful time in a baseball game than the extra-inning NL tilt where double-switches and pinch-hits have left a team without any additional pitchers and they're forced to send a backup SS to the mound for an inning or two.

It's like getting an entire bowl of marshmallows by random chance when you pour out your lucky charms.

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So I have to sit through 3 Tim Lincecum at bats for the hope of an extra inning game?

A team running out of pitchers is exciting? You are describing less than one percent of baseball games.

Here is 100% of NL games: the pitcher hits. Ick.

I pay to watch skill. Pitchers as batters is not skill. It's a debacle.