Royals interested in Bruce?

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Good lord, that's sheer insanity to offer Bruce an extension.
How about this, don't pick up Bruce's option. Wait him out. Unless he maintains this 800+ OPS for an entire year (which I doubt), he will be available at a bargain basement price in the spring, for a one year contract.
If Bruce has another 720 OPS season, he's a 4th OF and the market will pay him as such.

One of the smartest things the Reds did was not to give Bruce that "lifetime contract" that he wanted maybe 4-5 years ago. It sure was tempting then. Thank God the Reds didn't do it.

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Honestly, as bad as that LTD might have been, it'd be more attractive than any of the other albatross LTD's we currently have hanging from our collective necks.

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Originally Posted by kpresidente

Although imagine this blueprint for 2018: Bruce in RF, Jesse Winker in LF, Adam Duvall at 3B (his natural position), Eugenio Suarez at SS (his natural position) and Jose Peraza at 2B. Or something like that, maybe switch Peraza and Suarez. That’s a bargain-basement plan and not without flaws. But it’s a plan.

And it includes keeping Jay Bruce around from 2018-20. Say, at $43 million for 3 years.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. It also means we have a chance to be decent next year. It also just reiterates why we shouldn't have traded Frazier since a 2017 team with Frazier and Bruce could have a real shot and the only future sacrifice is Peraza > Blandino, which isn't much of a dropoff IMO.


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Lost me at "Suarez at SS". And even threw in "(his natural position)" to boot.

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Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Lost me at "Suarez at SS". And even threw in "(his natural position)" to boot.

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Suarez's natural position is "Hoping the NL gets the DH."

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Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski

Honestly, as bad as that LTD might have been, it'd be more attractive than any of the other albatross LTD's we currently have hanging from our collective necks.

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You know, other than the Votto, Bailey, BP and Mesoraco contracts, the Reds have done a nice job in this area.

Hey, we have to laugh to keep from crying. (I'm weeping inside though.)

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Originally Posted by Chuckie

Suarez's natural position is "Hoping the NL gets the DH."

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Now come on, how bad a defender can he be if he once played shortstop? Like Kevin Mitchell did?

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Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski

Honestly, as bad as that LTD might have been, it'd be more attractive than any of the other albatross LTD's we currently have hanging from our collective necks.

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I'd rather have the current Homer and Votto contracts than a lifetime Contract for Bruce now.
I'm assuming that it would've been at least 15 million (probably closer to 20 million) a year to extend Bruce to a lifetime contract, because he actually was an awesome player back then.
Votto will be fine longterm.
I have a lot more hope of Homer bouncing back from TJ than I do of Bruce sustaining production above replacement level.


I don't see Phillips' contract as an albotross.. We debate whether it's good or bad, but only 2 seasons left and the Reds realistically have no chance of being competitive before BP's deal is up.

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

I don't see Phillips' contract as an albotross.. We debate whether it's good or bad, but only 2 seasons left and the Reds realistically have no chance of being competitive before BP's deal is up.

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I'm still hoping he gets his numbers up and changes his mind about a trade. I mean he can't want to play for this mess. Can he?

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Originally Posted by Chuckie

Suarez's natural position is "Hoping the NL gets the DH."

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I'm sure that was tongue in cheek, but it's still unfair. He's clearly still learning the position. But he's certainly got the tools and upside to be an above average defender at third. He needs reps and time.

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Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Lost me at "Suarez at SS". And even threw in "(his natural position)" to boot.

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For the record, I didn't write it. I wouldn't put Suarez at SS, either, but OTOH he's just as bad at 3B. I'd play Peraza at SS and hope for Blandino at 2B. Suarez could be a utility infielder.


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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Good lord, that's sheer insanity to offer Bruce an extension.

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Not at 3 years $43M. There's basically no risk once you have to look at the alternative use of the money, which in our case means straight into the Williams family pockets. So even if he sucks I, as a fan, break even. The payoff is he plays well, contributes to maybe not having a record setting awful team in the upcoming seasons, and buys time for them to find a real RF of the future which we currently have zip in the system.



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Originally Posted by kpresidente

Not at 3 years $43M. There's basically no risk once you have to look at the alternative use of the money, which in our case means straight into the Williams family pockets. So even if he sucks I, as a fan, break even. The payoff is he plays well, contributes to maybe not having a record setting awful team in the upcoming seasons, and buys time for them to find a real RF of the future which we currently have zip in the system.



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Basically nobody cares less about "payflex" than I do, but buying our way out of the bullpen problem with the money and starting Duvall/Billy/Winker should at least be on the table.

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Originally Posted by swaisuc

Basically nobody cares less about "payflex" than I do, but buying our way out of the bullpen problem with the money and starting Duvall/Billy/Winker should at least be on the table.

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Yeah but it doesn't preclude anything with the bullpen. They can still add from the market if they want, after all, the guy isn't saying add payroll, just pay Bruce what he's making now. Mostly I just want a real RF, doesn't have to be Bruce, but that kind of short-term deal is hard to come by. Get Winker in LF, get Duvall to 3B, and get Suarez somewhere else. That's what I like. If you go Duvall in LF, Winker in RF, and Suarez at 3B you just have mediocrity everywhere. Duvall is a nice hitter for a 3B but nothing special for a LF. Winker could be a good hitter but playing out of position I fear he might give back some of that offensive value with the glove. And Suarez gives back all of his offensive value no matter what. I don't want that situation to settle in. With Bruce on a short term deal we get those guys where they can maximize their value and everybody knows we still have a glaring need for a RF of the future. Hopefully you find that guy and Bruce can be seen as a bridge.


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Originally Posted by Rojo

I'm still hoping he gets his numbers up and changes his mind about a trade. I mean he can't want to play for this mess. Can he?

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I'm pretty sure Phillips knew this year would be a mess.
I think the odds of him ever approved a trade are zero.. If he wouldn't accept for Dusty/Nats, I can't see him accepting anywhere.

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Originally Posted by kpresidente

Not at 3 years $43M. There's basically no risk once you have to look at the alternative use of the money, which in our case means straight into the Williams family pockets. So even if he sucks I, as a fan, break even. The payoff is he plays well, contributes to maybe not having a record setting awful team in the upcoming seasons, and buys time for them to find a real RF of the future which we currently have zip in the system.

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Cast has shown the willingness to spend money when the team is winning. For example, most people on the board considered Broxton a waste of money, etc, yet Cast was still willing to write the check.

Yes, this season has been extreme cost cutting, which I did not really agree with. I mean, come on.. they claim they could only sign relievers for 2 million or less..
But they seem to be buying into the whole new fad of "If you are going to be a non-contender, might as well lose 100 games".

Anyhow, it's not a good idea to give a guy like Bruce an extension. if nothing else, that money can be used to lock in players as they reach arbitration.
Eventually the team will spend money again, and I don't want Bruce on the payroll when that happens.

Also, by your logic, there is no need to extend Bruce, just pick up his option for next year, if you really want him back.

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Originally Posted by Chuckie

You know, other than the Votto, Bailey, BP and Mesoraco contracts, the Reds have done a nice job in this area.

Hey, we have to laugh to keep from crying. (I'm weeping inside though.)

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The BP ltd has been fine. He has barely spent any time on the DL and has been a pretty productive 2b.

Does the Mesoraco deal count as an ltd? They just bought out his arbitration years and it was only like $50 mil, iirc.

You are jumping off the Votto ship after two bad months?

Bailey looks bad, pitchers arms blow up.