Reds Trade And Free Agent Rumours 2023-24 Offseason

The MLB Playoff Trend in 2023 That Front Offices Must Remember in the Offseason

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Long gone are the days of MLB managers allowing their rubber-armed aces to work deep into postseason starts.

Instead of arguing whether Pedro Martínez should've been left in to try to work his way out of that eighth-inning jam in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, nowadays, we've grown accustomed to quick hooks a la Arizona's Brandon Pfaadt getting pulled at 70 pitches after 5.2 scoreless innings of work, or Toronto's José Berríos getting yanked one batter into the fourth inning of a scoreless game.

But at the risk of becoming a meme of an old man yelling at clouds, I just have to say it wasn't always like this.

Middle relievers didn't used to be this doggone important.

Only a decade ago in 2013, pitchers averaged 17.3 outs per start in the postseason, just a shade under six full innings. That had consistently been the average for nearly four decades dating back to 1975.

By 2016, the average was down to 15.3 outs.
Two years later in 2018, it was barely 14 outs.

It has now been more than six calendar years since the last complete game was tossed in the postseason (Verlander on Oct. 14, 2017), and we have yet to see a starter even pitch into the eighth inning this October.

But at least until a few days ago, that long-bullpen approach was working almost to perfection in 2023.

Through October 18, 101 pitchers had combined to make 210 relief appearances spanning 220.0 innings, and they had a cumulative ERA of 2.86. Meanwhile, starting pitchers had been saddled with a 4.50 ERA in their 254.0 innings of work.

Save for the elite ones—like Josh Hader, who could be headed for a $100 million contract in free agency this offseason—most relief pitchers are a dime a dozen. But putting together a deep bullpen needs to be of greater importance when it comes to building postseason-worthy rosters for the foreseeable future.

Because let's face it: The fifth starter in the rotation never plays a factor in the postseason, unless he is used as a long reliever. And with so many days off, even the No. 4 starter might make a grand total of two appearances during a World Series run.

A reliable reliever, though?
He'll pitch in damn near every game you win in October.

So stock up on as many of those as you possibly can.

Because if this postseason has taught us anything, it's that you can win it all with just two solid starting pitchers and a deep stable of bullpen arms.

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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-the-offseason

I was just thinking that 5 inning SP and a dominate pen could be the way to go for the Reds moving forward. If they aren't going to compete on the FA market for the top SP, and Krall is whining about the price of SP in trades then just stack the pen with as many great arms as possible. Convert a few in house SP to multi inning RP, and nab a few really good FA RP and see how it goes.

That's why I maintain that the Reds should concentrate on building the pen not the starting pitchers. They have enough potential starters with the addition of a vet or two on minor league contracts. Last year they were forced to bring up pitchers before they were ready. The Reds game is speed and winning close games. They won't go far in the playoffs without a deep pen.

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Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT

That's why I maintain that the Reds should concentrate on building the pen not the starting pitchers. They have enough potential starters with the addition of a vet or two on minor league contracts. Last year they were forced to bring up pitchers before they were ready. The Reds game is speed and winning close games. They won't go far in the playoffs without a deep pen.

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Uh, no. After finishing July with a record of 59-49 (first in the division) their starting pitching went on to put up the worst ERA in the final 2 months of the season of all 30 teams.

From August 1st through the end of the season Reds starters posted a 5.91 ERA (30th/30th).

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Originally Posted by Redsfan6272

Yea I take a so called Overrated Castellanos with 5 post season honeruns. He hits and hits both leftys and rightys.. goodness overrated my a$$

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.203/.259/.398 career in the post season in 139 PAs, only nine BB. Looks like he'll swing at anything

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Originally Posted by Kinsm

Uh, no. After finishing July with a record of 59-49 (first in the division) their starting pitching went on to put up the worst ERA in the final 2 months of the season of all 30 teams.

From August 1st through the end of the season Reds starters posted a 5.91 ERA (30th/30th).

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I can’t deny the numbers but I have to think a lot of that comes from several factors: Abbott being young and simply running out of gas, Greene and Ashcraft coming off injuries, and just not having enough reliable starting arms to cobble together a rotation. And that’s all without Antone.

Getting a year older and more experienced and staying healthy can go a long way to a good rotation. The point being is that the guys we have now have that potential, but if we have a stronger bullpen it can help our starters if they get hurt or can’t throw as many innings at first. Not saying that our rotation is going to be all star caliber but the pieces are all there.

The bullpen though, I’m not as confident in and it could use some upgrades.

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Originally Posted by chrisball96

I can’t deny the numbers but I have to think a lot of that comes from several factors: Abbott being young and simply running out of gas, Greene and Ashcraft coming off injuries, and just not having enough reliable starting arms to cobble together a rotation. And that’s all without Antone.

Getting a year older and more experienced and staying healthy can go a long way to a good rotation. The point being is that the guys we have now have that potential, but if we have a stronger bullpen it can help our starters if they get hurt or can’t throw as many innings at first. Not saying that our rotation is going to be all star caliber but the pieces are all there.

The bullpen though, I’m not as confident in and it could use some upgrades.

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I'd disagree. And this organization should go into the next year EXPECTING at least 1 if not more of them to fail - either via production and/or injury.

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Originally Posted by Kinsm

I'd disagree. And this organization should go into the next year EXPECTING at least 1 if not more of them to fail - either via production and/or injury.

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I don’t disagree with you, but the Reds’ resources are finite and I think the more important question is where those resources go first. And all I’m saying is that it should go to the bullpen first to shore it up because we have the guys and the talent in our rotation who have the potential to be successful but don’t have that same level of talent outside of a few guys.

I am not saying you ignore the rotation in favor of the bullpen just that if we’re getting pitching our efforts should first be made to address the bullpen.

Want a job with the Reds?

https://www.teamworkonline.com/baseb...incinnati-reds

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Originally Posted by chrisball96

I don’t disagree with you, but the Reds’ resources are finite and I think the more important question is where those resources go first. And all I’m saying is that it should go to the bullpen first to shore it up because we have the guys and the talent in our rotation who have the potential to be successful but don’t have that same level of talent outside of a few guys.

I am not saying you ignore the rotation in favor of the bullpen just that if we’re getting pitching our efforts should first be made to address the bullpen.

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Since Reds traded Iglesias they have been extremely frugal with the bullpen.

It seems to be the team philosophy that you occasionally spend on the rotation, but hardly ever on the bullpen.

So whatever is the right answer, I don’t expect Reds to acquire well established relievers with salaries above a few million.

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Originally Posted by Kc61

Since Reds traded Iglesias they have been extremely frugal with the bullpen.

It seems to be the team philosophy that you occasionally spend on the rotation, but hardly ever on the bullpen.

So whatever is the right answer, I don’t expect Reds to acquire well established relievers with salaries above a few million.

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I'm guessing they'll kick the tires, but come away without much more than middling middle relievers.

Because of that, they'll need to develop those shut-down relief arms.

Diaz is one.
Antone, if healthy, is another. (That's a mighty big if, though.)
Moll pitched like one after being dealt to the Reds, but that might just be a small sample.

Gibaut, Cruz (if you ignore September), Alex Young, and Sims pitched well, but are only average to above average, not dominant. That adequacy has its place-- especially in the regular season. But that's only seven guys-- they need at least two more and likely three or four.

Assuming a rotation of Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Williamson, and Abbott, Phillips and Richardson might fare well as other bullpen options. (And might not.)

Spiers doesn't feel like a good choice-- he, like Lively before him, feels like a depth option in AAA.
Maybe Roa and Stoudt could be good in full-time relief roles? (Likely not.)

I'd love to see them acquire Josh Hader in free agency, moving Diaz to the set-up role (and occasional closer) with Young and Moll from the south side. Antone can fit in as a set-up guy too, if he can stay healthy. Mixing and matching from the rest, assuming a semblance of health, is an above average bullpen with few weak links. (Phillips, Richardson, and other free agents can take that last spot to preserve some arms.)

Then again, they have more than $100M they could spend on free agency this off-season. Signing Hader and a good starter is entirely within the realm of possibilities. Were that to happen, I'd guess one of Lodolo, Williamson, or Ashcraft become pen-bound. Which might, in turn, make the pen that much more effective. (I like the idea of Ashcraft's slider/ fastball combination as a multi-inning ground ball specialist. That might be his ideal role.)

Moll did a good job, but Bell used him well in matchups.. Right handed batters hit Moll a lot better than lefties.
So that makes Moll perfect as the second lefty out of the pen, in situations were 2 of the next 3 batters are lefties, for example
He has value, but I would not consider him a shut down arm because he's more of a lefty specialist. OF course, he's still valuable though.

You know what’s a great trade? Swapping Maile in for Stephenson on the lineup card or vice versa.

You know who is the best free agent? A GENT-leman you’re already paying who is already on your team. It’s FREE to write his name on the lineup card that day.

Reply if you agree.

Reds claimed OF Bubba Thompson off waivers from KC.

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Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski

Reds claimed OF Bubba Thompson off waivers from KC.

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There's our veteran outfield bat for next season.