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Can't see it. Can't see the Reds pitching in much more than a year's salary. Not overly wowed by the Jays system. If the Reds kick in any significant cash, i would take Aaron Sanchez, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Richard Urena, Rowdy Tellez and maybe a lottery ticket on Dalton Pompey just to get my attention and that ain't happening.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/0...uig-braun.html
If the Jays offer Urena, Guerrero, and Tellez, I'd be mighty tempted.
But Votto is a Hall of Famer (or close to it). It'd take a hell of a haul and not much money going back.
Toronto would have to pony up three of their four top prospects (the aforementioned trio and Reid-Foley) and pay most of his contract. (Which they should be able to do relatively easily, as they've got a ton of cash coming off the books this year.)
I'll state unequivocally right now that I do not want to see Votto traded. But I don't get to make that decision, so speculating on what others might decide isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
That said, I think Votto to the Red Sox makes more sense for both teams, although I think the Reds and Blue Jays could pull something off if the Jays included Sanchez and/or Stroman. The Red Sox don't have anyone blocking the insertion of Votto at 1b or DH, and they do have intriguing prospects to pull off the deal. Any package would have to include Travis Shaw, Rafael Devers, and Michael Kopech. I'd also ask for Eduardo Rodriguez. They might counter with Henry Owens. I doubt they would give up Moncada or Benintendi but that wouldn't stop me from asking about them.
For the Jays, something like Smoak, Sanchez, Tellez, and Pompey would interest me. Guerrero and Girodo are other names I would like. They also acquired Reese McGuire who would be interesting if the Reds don't think Mesoraco can come back from his injuries/surgeries.
I would rather keep him than trade Votto and pay $20 million a year to watch him walk to the HOF through Toronto, Canada.
Pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee
I don't see a great fit. I usually roll my eyes a little when people use the phrase "traded for magic beans", but that's what it would feel like if the Reds trade one of the best hitters ever for some good-but-not-spectacular Toronto prospects.
In the current economic climate with rising salaries, and Votto's current abilities, and likely ability to age well as a hitter.... I just can't fathom why the Reds would be expected to eat a good chunk of that contract. If the Blue Jays want him, they should be expecting to pay Votto's contract while providing exciting prospects for him.
If we're talking BoSox, I want any two of Benintendi, Moncada, Betts, Bogaerts or Bradley - especially if they want the Reds kickin' in any cash.. Is that a lot? Hell yeah, but so is dealing Votto. Votto's is signed for the better part of a decade, the Reds are not up against any kind of deadline. If they do deal Joey (and I have no problem keeping him), then the other club is gonna squeal in agony at the cost. I might settle for one of the aforementioned quintet, but I'd need at least two or three of Devers, Kopech, Shaw, Rodriguez, Jason Groome or Josh Ockimey. ANY deal for Joey has to have at least one young player with perrineal all-star potential and at least two or three others capable of being solid regulars.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
People undervalue magic beans, forgetting all about the golden eggs. But no, I wouldn't do that trade either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
I'd take Betts straight up for Votto.Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
I'd probably take Moncada or Benintendi AND Travis Shaw (or someone of that ilk) as well.
No.
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
I'd take Betts straight up too, but he's basically their Votto and much younger/cheaper - the Red Sox wouldn't do it. I just included him because he's the kind of young talent I'd need headlining any return for JV.
They would have to give the Reds pretty much everything and pay the contract.
Guys.
Are we really throwing out a "I'd take Betts for Votto?"
Let's stick to reality. Sorry.
It would really suck.
If the Reds trade Votto to the Jays for their garbage prospects I'd probably not watch baseball for 10 years.
I am not trading my cat
Not even for top kitten prospects?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisor
Let's see. 23, second full year, 107 R's, 74 XBH's, 30 HR's 102 RBI's, 23 SB's, .314/.356/.547/.903, 2 E's/.997 Fld% across 2B and all three OF spots. Controlled until 2021 and costs $24M less next year than Joey. Hells yeah, I'd do a straight up deal. One of no more than three or four targets I would. RedSox would laugh though.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldaniels
I think he means it is unrealistic that the Red Sox would even consider trading Betts for Votto.Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
that's his pointQuote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
Well then, he's right. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
I think some posters have it wrong on the value, if I’m trading Joey freaking Votto, there is no one ‘off the table.’ Votto is the best pure hitter in the league, if another GM straight up told me “so and so is off the table” I would hang up and laugh, not in that order. If you want the best hitter / future hall of famer, its not gonna take a piece that will hurt to give up, its gonna take multiple pieces.
If the RedSox told me Betts was off the market, then I'd simply say I needed Benintendi and one of Moncada, Bogaerts or Bradley (in that order). There are several combinations Boston could come up with that I would accept and I wouldn't be afraid to walk away if I couldn't get my minimum request.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaReds
Many other teams would have one or two possibilities and some would have nothing that would interest me for Joey. The Jays would have to start with Sanchez & Urena and add at least one more.
Votto would command at least 2 young MLB players + some. Sanchez would be one of those but if all Toronto is offering up beyond that is prospects who have never been to the show then it would take 3 of the 4 - Urena, Reid-Foley, Guerrero Jr, and Tellez. I would also ask for a 10-15 guy (Bo Bichette). Even then I wouldn't want to be the one to pull the trigger and deal a guy who has a very good chance of putting another Reds hat in the HOF.Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
There is no way I deal Votto without feeling like I absolutely robbed the other team
If I'm the Red Sox, getting someone like Encarnacion as a free agent sounds a lot more appealing than gutting my farm system for Joey.
That's the thing. They are in first place and will be heading to the playoffs with what they have, and these young guys will just get better. They basically just need a bat to replace some of Ortiz' production. Votto and the Sox just aren't a good fit, although I could have seen them having that conversation a couple of years ago.
This is pretty much why Votto won't be traded. None of those Jays suggestions in this thread even warrant a return call IMO. Benintendi and Bradley is probably even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
Meanwhile, the only guys that have the value to make it happen (like Betts) are simply not going to be traded.
It just takes too many really good baseball players to make up for the loss of an elite one. The other teams know that too. If they didn't, I'd advocate for trading Stephenson, Winker, and Hamilton for Betts.... which is basically the reverse of what you're suggesting as a Votto trade. They wouldn't consider that though because adding more good players almost never adds up to an elite player.
I shudder to think of the sort of numbers Votto would put up with the short LF wall in Fenway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by corkedbat
It's all this excess weight that would give me pause....;)
per the article, they want the Reds to eat significant portions of the contract? Get little in return and thank the Bluejays for taking Votto..
Was this written by a Blue Jays fan?
Can you imagine the run scoring with Hamilton, Peraza, Votto in the top three slots? Keep Votto. Pay the money.
This is pretty much what I was saying. I'd ask Sanchez, Urena, Guerrero & Tellez to start a conversation with the Jays and offer no more than one, maybe two years of salary to deal Joey and I'd stick to my guns. The Jays would probably think Ried-Foley, Urena & Pompey with three or four years of salary would be more than a fair offer. Same if I asked the Red Sox for Moncada & Benintendi, the Yankees if I demanded Sanchez, Mateo & Frazier or the Nats for Turner, Robles, Fedde & Cole. Joey is definitely dealable, but the asking price would be to bloody painful for anyone to think about matching.Quote:
Originally Posted by swaisuc
I'd only trade Votto for someone so good I wouldn't trade him for Votto.
This is pretty much what I was saying. I'd ask Sanchez, Urena, Guerrero & Tellez to start a conversation with the Jays and off no more than one, maybe two years of salary to deal Joey and I'd stick to my guns. The Jays would probably think Ried-Foley, Urena & Pompey with three or four years of salary would be more than a fair offer. Same if I asked the Red Sox for Moncada & Benintendi, the Yankees if I demanded Sanchez, Mateo & Frazier, the Nats for Turner, Robles, Fedde & Cole. Joey is definitely dealable, but the asking price would be to bloody painful for anyone to think about matching.Quote:
Originally Posted by swaisuc
The Reds should only exist as a farm team for bigger teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellhead
So says the AL east.
Would the Reds brass really consider trading Votto for less than top tier player(s) and further alienate the fans? I would hope not.
That may not alienate some fans. The people that say his salary doesn't merit his relative lack of production. They would view at as a huge salary off the books and an opening for someone like Duvall or Suarez to play 1stQuote:
Originally Posted by 40YrRedsFan
Literally had someone on twitter telling me Duvall was having a better season than Votto two days ago. Wanted to just end it all right then and there. Decided not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip R
Joey is hitting .421 in the second half. I didn't know numbers went that high.