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Even after the Madson signing, he's on Twitter saying he thinks the Reds offered Cordero "$7 million or $8 million."
Uh, no freakin' way Coco was offered that much. I'd bet my house on it. I bet Walt offered a $5M deal at most.
Fay is so lost. At least he's sticking to his guns. They're unloaded, but he is sticking to them.
The fact that John Fay is still covering the Reds and C. Trent Rosecrans is not causes me to cry out in my sleep at night.
Yes, I'm sure that's why it was only a one year deal, to protect the Reds...Quote:
johnfayman John Fay
RT @JacobRude @johnfayman Why only a 1-year deal?//less risk for Reds, market dried up for Madson
I can't believe it but I agree blitz. Great post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey
Patrick, once per year we usually agree my friend. I have a feeling it might happen twice in 2012 though. It's that kind of year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
Well we can all be great friends if the real team plays up to par with the paper reds.
We also need to give a shout-out in this thread to the cluelessness of Mark Sheldon who was citing a "source" up until 11:11 on Tuesday night that "too much was being made" of the Madson-to-Reds talks.
I met Sheldon once and he's a really nice guy. I wonder if he has a single good source though when it comes to inside information.
Then there's Fay who is just a complete trainwreck.
I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.Quote:
johnfayman John Fay
RT @nmwwelte @johnfayman: So is the last immediate need a left handed OF bat? Or just any OF bat?//any
If it's true that the Reds signed Madson for $8.5M, there is no way they offered close to that for Cordero. if they had, Cordero would have taken it in a heartbeat.
I've said for a couple of years how brutal he is. It seems he doesn't know anything about baseball yet is a beat writer for a big league club. Quite sad.
I heard Cordero was holding out for at least a two year deal.
I can't say about the future, but for this year only, it seems that the 1 year deal thing is the way to go. For the first time in a long while, most of the MLB clubs are watching their payrolls and budgets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Madden
I think the 1 year deal for Madsen was a smart move. I've heard no mention of a club option for a second year though. Kinda wish there was. Or maybe they're leaving the door open for a Marshall extension and making him the closer?
I believe you are correct that he was at first. But considering that a better closer who is a Boras client didn't hold out for a multiple year deal, I can't imagine that Cordero was still holding out for one at this point. If he was, he needs to fire his agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Madden
While there is a lot of criticism of Fay, he is probably the originating source of 80+% of the Reds news that gets discussed here. He is also good about getting things up on his blog quickly and does a nice job staying connected on Twitter- answering questions and dong the live chats. Some of the criticism- re style, missing words, etc- that is leveled on him should be directed towards poor editor work.
This could be the post of the off-season. I'm excited, but ultimately it comes down to actual games being played by real live players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
Pitchers & catchers report in 39 days!!!!! :jump:
That's what happens when the world is about to end :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey
I think this is true. If anything, the Madsen deal may push down the price for a Marshall extension. Truth be told, if you're a reliever, and you're not a lights out closer, if a team offers you a multi year deal, probably a good idea to take it. Madsen will be looking for major money next offseason. I don't think there is darn near anyway the Reds get an extension on him during the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vottomatic
In other news, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.Quote:
John Fay is clueless
Fay is pretty even keeled, which in twitter/blog world has some value. The only thing that irks me is his persistence on the limitations that the Reds have financially or otherwise. But that too acts as a buffer to some really ridiculous questions and comments that are out there. I also find his spelling misfortune hilarious and endearingly reliable.
I don't think it so much that Fay is clueless but that his sources are basically within the Reds organization and they treat him like a mushroom (keep him in the dark and shovel him you know what). To be really effective and top tier he needs to develop sources outside of the tri-state area.
That's funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking
I think you often see the guys closest to the team know less because they need to be a non-threat to information. He can be controlled, so he is. Not a knock on him, though. Perhaps some of the guys in Chicago or NY seem to be in tighter, I don't know.
I don't mind Fay. This place can be hard on all Reds beat writers at times.
.....and in other news, scientists have determined through a $100 million dollar grant, that water is wet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Tucker
Woo-hoo!!!! :D
This place can be tough on everyone and everything.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrake
I agree. Fay is a good writer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrake
He sticks his neck out at times and is wrong, but I can sympathize with him.
I'd rather he give out everything he gets over the winter and be wrong sometimes than just sit on all info (because none of it can be verified).
Thankfully, it really doesn't matter what they offered Coco now :)
But what Fay says is not implausible.
Coco was coming off a 12 million dollar salary. Looks like the Reds had about 8 million to spend on a closer. They pretty much had to sign one (IMO).
I could see a situation where both Coco and Madson had similiar offers on the table.. Or perhaps Madson was offered 8.5, given a "soft deadline" and was told that money would be offered to Coco after the deadline if Madson didn't.
I don't doubt that the Reds were using Coco as leverage to pressure Madson into signing. There was a quote from Walt a couple days ago (about Coco) saying he wanted to get it all resolved this week. Now we know what he was talking about :)
There's a difference though for Madsen and Cordero. The 1 year deal for Madsen actually benefits him. He gets to go have a big year(hopefully) and then sign a 3 or 4 year contract. This will be the possibly be the last contract Cordero signs. So a 2 year $5 million/year contract would actually be better than a 1 year $6 Million contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
I disagree. I don't think there is any conceivable way that Madson and Coco had "similar offers on the table." I guess I just don't want to believe that Walt could be dumb enough to offer Cordero anywhere near what he offered Madson. Nearly everyone in baseball would agree that one of them is much better than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by REDREAD
I think the Reds are classy and don't want to trash Coco publicly. But truth is IMO, they gave him a "low-ball" offer which didn't approach what they offered Madson. I bet Madson's offer was nearly double what they offered Coco. Yet, there is Fay still insisting that Cordero was offered $7 or $8 million from the Reds. No way.
This is Fay's breakdown of the trade:
Sigh.Quote:
RT @ajr0031 do you think this is an upgrade at the closer spot?//4 fewer blown saves. Thats big. Cordero's WHIP was slightly better.
Yeah, I saw that one too Homer. I tried to reply, but I couldn't figure out how to tell Fay that his analysis was bunk in less than 140 characters.
I think Chip's nickname for Fay is apt.
That harshes my mellow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Bailey
Even Marty B. has started understanding the game more. Fay is still holding onto theories that statistical mythbusters debunked 20 years ago.
Well, I agree Fay might've been wrong on the exact dollar amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey
However, it's not out of the question.
Suppose 3 weeks ago, Boras told Walt that there was zero chance of Madson signing anything less than 4 years (negotiating tactic)
Suddenly Walt's options are Cordero, Lidge, and some other sketchy candidates.
Let's say the Angels signed Madson.. At this point, I think I'd rather overpay Cordero for one year than live with the hole in the pen or give up significant prospects for another guy like Marshal..
Overpaying Cordero by 3 million or so for one year would not be a fatal mistake. I'm sure the prospect guys would rather spend an extra 3 million on a FA if it lets the Reds keep guys like Corcino, Hamilton, etc on the farm.
We will never know for sure, but it's not impossible that Walt told Boras that if he didn't accept this deal, he's making the same offer to Cordero.
We know that the Reds didn't offer Cordero what they offered Madson because if they had, Cordero would have taken it.Quote:
Originally Posted by REDREAD
Even if the Reds had offered Cordero $8M, by now, Cordero would have realized that no other team was dumb enough to offer him anything close to that. It's doubtful he got offered that by anyone for a two year deal combined.
Plus, the Reds were the only team left looking for a closer. We know Cordero wants to be a closer, so he would have take any Reds offer that was close to what he wanted. Clearly, it wasn't.
There is just no way to know what Coco was offered... Why is so implausible to think that Coco was offered a similar contract but believed he could still get 2 years? We don't know what other teams had on the table. Maybe Boras thought the best course of action was to put Madson on a good team needing a closer and throw him back on the market next year. Regardless, I love this signing!
No offense, but this is pure speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 757690
We have no idea what was offered Cordero.
What you think is logical maybe be "disrespect" to Cordero.
Dunn reportedly signed with the Nats a few years ago because they were the only team to offer him a two year deal.
Remember, Cordero made about 12 million last year. He probably sees himself as the top (or top 2) closer available at the time. Ego makes people do things illogical at times. I doubt he's at home worrying about his declining FIP and valuing himself according to WAR.
All I'm saying is that it's possible one of Fay's sources heard that Madson had a deadline to accept or they were going to spend "the money" on Coco.
That's not completely implausible.. Ok, I am done.. it's kind of silly to argue on whether the Reds offered Coco 5, 7, 9 or million.. Doesn't really matter :)
I wouldn't even know who Fay was if not for his 2nd inning interruptions of the game with the Lord Of The Booth, and Redszone of course.
Sheldon and Fay = Clowns :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey
I consider Sheldon a de facto team spokesman.
"you suck" is 8 characters lolQuote:
Originally Posted by OesterPoster