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If Gregorius is the linchpin of a deal for Upton from a Reds perspective, is there anyone here who would NOT pull the trigger? With Cozart already in place at SS, I deal Gregorius plus stuff for Upton every day of the week, as long as the stuff doesn't touch Hamilton or the ML starting roster / rotation. And I'd talk about Leake if they liked him.Quote:
Peter Gammons @pgammo
Clear 'Backs will lobbytalk Upton if Gregorius, Bogaerts, Simmons or Profar is avaliable, whivh none on, thus far
I think I proposed Leake/Gregorius for Upton sometime back. (Then again I've proposed a lot of deals for Upton, so that doesn't count for much.) It really does make sense for both clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyenut
Hamilton
Phillips
Votto
Upton
Bruce
Frazier
Mesigan
Cozart
Just as long as Pokey Reese is off the table, I would send them Gregorius.
I'm not sure if I would do the trade or not, but let me play Devil's advocate.
Upton's OPS the last 5 years:
816, 899, 799, 898, 785
Signed through 2015 at 9.7 million, 14.2 million, 14.5 million
If we could get the 900 OPS version, it's a lot more attactive.
He's going to be very expensive though in 2014-2015.. If he only can OPS around 800, that's a disaster. Upton's high price tag negates some of the advantage of his youth (He's going to be a FA at age 27-28)
The other option would be to keep Didi and just sign Ludwick.
Ludwick hasn't exactly been Mr Consistency either, but we probably get him signed for a little bit less money and he doesn't cost us prospects.
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by klw
Gregorius, Leake and one of Corcino/Cingrani for Upton. BOOM!
(Too bad Ludwick will likely sign today taking this opportunity off the table).
I know you are just playing devil's advocate, but last year aside, I think the Reds will rue the day they pick Ludwick over Justin Upton- especially for the next 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by REDREAD
When did Gregorius' trade value become even comparable to Profar?
I'm not sure how believable this report is. It would be hard to understand why Gregorious is valued that high with questions about his bat.
He is impressive at short though.
I'm hoping the Reds only have to give Ludwick 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benihana
But we'll see how it plays out.
Maybe I'm nuts, but I think in 2013, it's not clear cut who will put up the better numbers. Ludwick has a chance to match Upton, or be close.
It's nice to see Didi in such high demand (if Gammons is right).
The Reds are going to be in a pretty nice position when they are going to be able to trade either Didi or Cozart.
The thing about Upton that makes me nervous is that the Reds need a true star if they are going to pay him 14+ million. Paying a LF that only OPSes 800 that much is a recipe for disaster.. I guess I'm not sure which Upton we'd end up getting.. There is some potential downside.
Seems like Gammons is having some difficulty typing on his smart phone. I feel his pain.
Would they also talk Upton if Cozart were available?
I'd prefer Fowler to Upton, but I think the asking price for Fowler will simply be too much. Ludwick and Upton may be comparible this year however with a trade of Upton LF is taken care of for a number of years and at a pretty reasonable price. With Ludwick in 2 or 3 years they'll be having to fill the position again. Can you imagine the excitement going into Redsfest this weekend with the addition of Upton?
I was sort of thinking the same thing. What prospect in baseball's trade value is comparable with Profar. Heck, Oscar Taveras might be the best pure hitting prospect in the minors right now but I would still take Profar even over my man crush for Taveras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude
Wow. I'd really prefer Upton. Do you really think they'd ask more for Fowler than AZ would for Upton? If so, I'm not sure I know what color this sky is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidneySlicker
I don't know how reliable the report is but there's more to it than the on field capabilities of these players. Money is a huge factor. How badly do the D-Backs want to shed Upton's contract and how many suitors are there to take on that kind of obligation? Unfortunately this, like most hot stove talk on RZ, comes down to money and our Reds are one of the have nots. We likely can't afford a $14 mill LF. 90% of the discussions around here boil down to not enough money for the Reds to acquire (Josh Hamilton, David Wright...)Quote:
Originally Posted by jhu1321
http://i.imgur.com/wsUuN.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by RedEye
I think it's code for the Reds win the World Series in 2013. On second hand I hope that's not what it means. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Didn't Mdngkac play for the Twins?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
While I understand the Reds are one of the small market ball clubs in MLB, I think their revenue is trending in the right direction. Combine that with the fact that after the 2013 season Bronson Arroyo's 12,000,000 contract comes off the books. So they could rewrite Upton's contract to defer some of the money for 2013 I think they could make it work. Also at that point hopefully a guy like Corcino will hopefully be ready to fill in the starting rotation and would be a cheap replacement to Arroyo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray
Man, do I miss the rep button. Awesome post.Quote:
Originally Posted by klw
Upton might very well get a rather strong "GAB effect" boost. Not only would he leave Az but he' d lose several games in SD and LA too while gaining games in Chi and PNC. Plus he gets out of the glare of being "the guy" with ultra expectations. Here he has Joey andBP plus an exciting rookie coming on to lessen the spotlight. I'd love to nab him but I had this in the Bourn too much money bin. If it did happen - wow! Cast really is all in...
I would easily do Leake/Bailey, Did and Cingrani without thinking twice about it.
Upton is only 24 years old, isn't he? Seems his best years SHOULD be ahead of him.
I'd have someone spread the rumor that the Reds/DBacks are close to a deal of Gregorius/Leake for Upton, and see if the Rockies call the Reds back and lower their demands for Fowler.
Did Gammons just have a stroke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Should we call someone to make sure he is alright?
I think you're going to have to offer more than Gregorius and Leake for Upton. You might think highly of those prospects but the kind of prospects other clubs are potentially offering, the Reds will have to throw in more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vottomatic
Maybe it's code for something. Lets see if I can translate it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve4192
Midnight in Detroit is Not Good for Kicking A Can
possibly...
I don't think it is comparable, but it will get the conversation started. A lot of teams see Gregorius as a starting shortstop. That is what they need. The difference is, Profar gets the deal done by himself. Gregorius starts the talks and the teams work from there on the other parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry
Madness! Dusty now gets Kutch at center.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Obviously, Jocketty has dealt for Andrew McCutchen to play center.
Fair enough but I still think that it's going to take more than Gregorius and Leake to get Upton. I'm not even seeing Gregorius on the top 100 list of prospects on the MLB Network. I might get flak for this but I think this is a stuation where posters on here value him more than what other teams value him for.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
haha good call!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap Irony
Looking further into Fowler I've changed my mind. I didn't realize that Fowler has never ops'd over 800. Upton has nearly ops'd 900 twice and come close to opsing 800 in his only other two major league seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEye
I also thought he was more of a stolen base threat than he really is.
No cause for concern, this has been going on for years:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve4192
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/61649...-tweeterverse/
Makes Fay seem downright coherent.Quote:
Originally Posted by blumj
That list hasn't really been updated. Mayo was talking about it during the AFL Championship game that it will be updated in January. Gregorius is going to be a Top 100 prospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry
The Reds are still going to have to throw in more considering that other teams will be throwing in higher valued prospects in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdirt
Undoubtedly. I expect Didi would simply be the first piece, then they'll want a good young arm or and probably a 4th good prospect. Cabrera is drawing serious talk at 4 prospects so that is likely the minimum for Upton (as well as Fowler).Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry
Certainly. As I said earlier, he isn't on the same page as a Profar. But he is enough to get the conversation started (which seems to be focused around 'starting caliber shortstop').Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry
To me, what their asking for Cabrera is beyond ridiculous. There is some talk that the Cards are in on him and I would be highly opposed to getting him if they have to give up the talent to get him. There's a lot of warning signs showing Cabrera is regressing. I can't imagine what kind of haul Upton will get.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlegJake
No flak on this one. I bet most here agree with me that he is not a top 100 guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry