COVID-19, part vi,...the first wave continues to surge

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Originally Posted by WrongVerb

Imagine where we'd be if we hadn't had such a cynical, half assed, patchwork response to this when it first broke out.

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Yeah, federalist system and a fractured health care system aren’t helping matters either. Would Obama have been able to strong-arm Georgia’s Kemp? Or Florida’s governor ? Probably not unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

Haven’t drug OD’s been going up for years?

This screams “when ice cream sales increase so does the murder rate” to me.

“Thanks COVID”

People are acting like we have been under lockdown for years. It was like 7 weeks and not even the whole country.

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They had dipped in 2018. I mean, you could read it

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...rd-high-363719

Drug overdoses up this year. Doctors speculate Covid isolation and job loss are contributing.

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Worse, less pure product too is what I’ve heard. Travel restrictions has slowed the trade down and substitute materials are being introduced and thus wreaking havoc in some cases

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Yeah, federalist system and a fractured health care system aren’t helping matters either. Would Obama have been able to strong-arm Georgia’s Kemp? Or Florida’s governor ? Probably not unfortunately.

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Obama would have listened to the scientists and experts from day one, implemented a national plan to deal with the pandemic, and we would be where other countries who did the same are right now, which is a much better place that we are right now.

This is what you are missing. The scientists and experts have been proven correct at nearly every stage of this pandemic. All anyone had to do is listen to them and follow their advice. We did not. And now we are screwed. That is the core issue. Everything else is just noise.

Here is the chart that says it all:

Attachment 16265

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Originally Posted by 757690

Obama would have listened to the scientists and experts from day one, implemented a national plan to deal with the pandemic, and we would be where other countries who did the same are right now, which is a much better place that we are right now.

This is what you are missing. The scientists and experts have been proven correct at nearly every stage of this pandemic. All anyone had to do is listen to them and follow their advice. We did not. And now we are screwed. That is the core issue. Everything else is just noise.

Here is the chart that says it all:

Attachment 16265

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Can Presidents bully governors? Tell me that. Can a President mandate masks? This isn’t China or even Vietnam.

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Yeah, federalist system and a fractured health care system aren’t helping matters either. Would Obama have been able to strong-arm Georgia’s Kemp? Or Florida’s governor ? Probably not unfortunately.

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What's Obama got to do with any of this? My point is that good, capable leaders (red or blue, I don't care) would have understood the moment and bent the will of the people toward the right things to do. Instead, expert advice was met with cynicism, derision, and defiance. And you can draw a through line from that reactionary response to people getting kicked out of their homes, a sinking economy, drug overdoses, and a situation that's spun wildly out of control.

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Originally Posted by WrongVerb

What's Obama got to do with any of this? My point is that good, capable leaders (red or blue, I don't care) would have understood the moment and bent the will of the people toward the right things to do. Instead, expert advice was met with cynicism, derision, and defiance. And you can draw a through line from that reactionary response to people getting kicked out of their homes, a sinking economy, drug overdoses, and a situation that's spun wildly out of control.

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How does one “bend the will” of intransigent governors?

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Can Presidents bully governors? Tell me that. Can a President mandate masks? This isn’t China or even Vietnam.

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There would be no need to bully governors if there was a national plan based on what the scientists and experts told us.

Other countries didn’t have to mandate masks. They just provided leadership that the people trusted, so when they recommended masks, people wore them.

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Originally Posted by 757690

There would be no need to bully governors if there was a national plan based on what the scientists and experts told us.

Other countries didn’t have to mandate masks. They just provided leadership that the people trusted, so when they recommended masks, people wore them.

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So there aren’t stubborn ideological red state groups who would have refused if a sensible Democratic president had been in office?

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

How does one “bend the will” of intransigent governors?

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One endeavors to elect leaders who will react accordingly, rather than defiantly, in an emergency. In addition, leadership at the national level would put pressure from state residents on governors to follow suit. (In a way, certain governors did follow the "lead" of those at the national level.)

I'm holding back here, trying not to be political, per Boss' request. If you want my full thoughts on the matter, we can continue this in the proper forum.

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

So there aren’t stubborn ideological red state groups who would have refused if a sensible Democratic president had been in office?

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There are those groups in every country. Compliance doesn’t have to be at 100% in order for it to be effective. Right now, mask compliance is at around 65-80%. Imagine what it would be with national leadership on this issue?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...hers-doing-it/

I don’t think there is any realistic way any democratic president could’ve forced republican governors to adopt mask mandates, and even worse is getting cities, counties and etc. to enforce them. Basically, any sensible person would follow the mandate, as they essentially are right now, and you’d have probably just as much “you’re not allowed to tell me what to do” backlash from the usual crowd as we have right now.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I don’t think there is any realistic way any democratic president could’ve forced republican governors to adopt mask mandates, and even worse is getting cities, counties and etc. to enforce them. Basically, any sensible person would follow the mandate, as they essentially are right now, and you’d have probably just as much “you’re not allowed to tell me what to do” backlash from the usual crowd as we have right now.

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I agree with you on this.

But I’m guessing if Trump wore a mask and asked everyone to, that usual crowd would be wearing them.

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Originally Posted by 757690

I agree with you on this.

But I’m guessing if Trump wore a mask and asked everyone to, that usual crowd would be wearing them.

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I agree yeah

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

https://www.popsci.com/story/environ...s-coronavirus/

As potentially millions become homeless due to Covid recession/depression, hurricane season bears down. Reported not in NYT or CNN, but Popular Science of all places.

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Yeah, I mentioned this in March when they forecast for about 20 destructive hurricanes on the Eastern/Southeastern border, where normally they have about 16.

Weather is having an effect now, from the Summer months in the Northern Hemisphere assisting in preventing the spread of COVID-19 (crazy to think about that it could be so much worse if it was Winter) to this:

https://uk.reuters.com/video/watch/c...ri-idOVCN7E54B

Symptom tracker app reveals six distinct types of COVID-19 infection:

https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN24I1YI

"LONDON (Reuters) - British scientists analysing data from a widely-used COVID-19 symptom-tracking app have found there are six distinct types of the disease, each distinguished by a cluster of symptoms."