9/3 game thread, end of west coast massacre!!

I thought Quinn's only real bad deal was trading Wetteland away.....but i really thought Martinez was a better hitter than he showed in 1992.

I mean.....he was terrible that year.....compared to his other years with MTL and later i think the White Sox.

You could say Willie was looked upon like EE is now....except EE is already better than WG ever thought of being.

The problem with Quinn was his non-moves during 1991 after Rijo went down....he sat on his hands and thought the team that showed up for the 1st 45 games in 1990 would show up again.....forgetting they were a below avg team for more than half the year.

About the only thing Wayne's done better than DanO in the balance so far is not saddle the team with a massive and unforgiveable contract.

I agree if a GM is bad....and you see it quickly then about 1-2 years is enough.

I do not think WK is even in DO territory yet......although DO is ahead of him in drafting players.

If a guy is outright bad.....yes you cut your losses.
The Reds cut their losses in 1966 with Don Heffner.......and while some who remeber Heff might think Narron is that bad......even i do not think he is that bad.


Loshe is a major leauge arm.....that is needed now.
He has had only 1 badly pitched game. And 1 avg game for his last start.
You expect him to go 7+ IP and 1-2 runs every game? This is not 1968 or even 1978 or 1988.......pitchers, especially No. 4 or 5 starters do not do this any more.
You are lucky if you have 1-3 guys who can go and pitch this good anymore.
If you get 6-7 and 2-3 runs from 3-5 starters on avg..... you have a pretty good staff right there.

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Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

I agree if a GM is bad....and you see it quickly then about 1-2 years is enough.

I do not think WK is even in DO territory yet......although DO is ahead of him in drafting players.

If a guy is outright bad.....yes you cut your losses.
The Reds cut their losses in 1966 with Don Heffner.......and while some who remeber Heff might think Narron is that bad......even i do not think he is that bad.


Loshe is a major leauge arm.....that is needed now.
He has had only 1 badly pitched game. And 1 avg game for his last start.
You expect him to go 7+ IP and 1-2 runs every game? This is not 1968 or even 1978 or 1988.......pitchers, especially No. 4 or 5 starters do not do this any more.
You are lucky if you have 1-3 guys who can go and pitch this good anymore.
If you get 6-7 and 2-3 runs from 3-5 starters on avg..... you have a pretty good staff right there.

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Not to be picky, but Lohse has had 3 good games surrounded by nothing but AWFULNESS for three seasons now. I have no idea where people are getting the idea of his epiphany.

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

What you like about Krivsky is what people liked about Bowden. But maybe that's neither here nor there. (Or maybe you liked Bowden).

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Wasn't a fan of Bowden's. That said, not everything Bowden did was bad. I don't see them all that similar except for the fact that they WILL make deals (as will many other GMs).

I think the search for perfection ultimately leads to disappointment.

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Originally Posted by oneupper

I think the search for perfection ultimately leads to disappointment.

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I agree, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Jocketty, Beane, Schuerholz, or even Minaya level of competence would do.

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I agree, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Jocketty, Beane, Schuerholz, or even Minaya level of competence would do.

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You mean the same Schuerholz who Bill James wrote this about in 1984?

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At this point in his career John Schuerholz has yet to try anything that has worked.

The pathetic thing about John Schuerholz is that he fancies himself a gambler, but a gambler is in fact, exactly what he’s not.

A return to the top of the division in the next 3-4 years is all but out of the question.

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Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

I was thinking that.....the BRM wasn't an accident.....

It's a shame I wasn't around for it :(

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If Howsam "drafted" Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Dave Concepcion, Don Gullett, Jack Billingham, Ken Griffey, Sr., Cesar Geronimo, hired Sparky Anderson, Tony Perez, and traded for George Foster, Joe Morgan, and the lefty Norman, then Krivsky has some work to do still, but I think he's heading there, and he may end up with much better pitching (it wouldn't take much).

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I agree, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Jocketty, Beane, Schuerholz, or even Minaya level of competence would do.

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They had to cut their teeth somewhere. They don't grow on trees. Where else are they coming from?

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Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Not to be picky, but Lohse has had 3 good games surrounded by nothing but AWFULNESS for three seasons now. I have no idea where people are getting the idea of his epiphany.

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You're basically right about Lohse, he's been nothing special his whole life, but he is a major league pitcher.

He's got a career ERA of 4.82, in the AL, in a hitter's park. In the NL he's probably more of a 4.50 ERA type of guy. He's been pretty consistent so that's basically what you can expect from him. He's not a bad 4th-5th starter except that right now he's our third. If Krivsky could get a 1-3 starter in the offseason he wouldn't be a bad guy to have at the bottom of the rotation.

A couple of things I do like about him, is that he does have some pretty good stuff and is fairly young. If he does learn how to use it (I know big if) he could improve quite a bit. As long as we don't pay have to pay more than 4M for him next year, it wouldn't be such a bad gamble with the liklihood being you get a decent back of the rotation starter with possible upside. If we have to pay 5M+ he obviously wouldn't be worth it.