The other thread is over the 1,000 post limit so time for a new one:
Question for the IU faithful:
How confident are you guys keeping Keion Brooks in State? [emoji16]
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The other thread is over the 1,000 post limit so time for a new one:
Question for the IU faithful:
How confident are you guys keeping Keion Brooks in State? [emoji16]
Co-sign.
IMHO, it's a safe bet that KB signs with UK. That's the scuttlebutt here in his hometown.
Either way, given the dissension and hodgepodge of a roster, I've reached the Blow It Up Archie, Make It Yours point, and am not really focused on the number of four and five star recruits Archie pulls in for next season.
Now, I'm not all suggesting that the program doesn't need high-end/highly-rated talent. But at this point -- and this, IMHO, is the only way that a foundation for the type of sustained success we (Hoosier fans) are clamoring for can be achieved -- I simply hope to see a healthy, balanced roster largely comprised of players with high basketball IQs willing to buy-in, and oh, yes...more shooters. The next time such a situation occurs under CAM's tenure will be the first time.
Having said that, considering that when first hired, CAM declared that he will not take shortcuts to cheat the process, I'm a little concerned that CAM may have at least a slight case of -- using a college football analogy -- (Former Nebraska HC) Bill Callahan's disease....Too married to a system to, aside from a small tweak here-and there, tailor his system to account for the strengths of heavily counted-on players (starters or reserves), which may not be ideal "fits" for his system. But I'm not the least concerned about him X-and-Oing or recruiting moving forward, and that's most of the battle right there.
Rev, I just scratch my head over this team. But as I said in the other thread, Archie says there is gonna be drastic changes coming. But they better show me something tonight or I will be officially done for the year.
Dayton Flyer fan (and IU alumnus) checking in. For the record, most Flyer fans were ready to move on from Archie (or at the very least were anxious) during his second season. He'd won 20 games his first year, then dropped to 17-14 in year two with no postseason tournament. The next two seasons resulted in Elite 8 and Sweet 16 runs (though the teams were hardly juggernauts). You could argue he underachieved in his final two years in Dayton though both resulted in NCAA tourney bids.
By the end, he was of course beloved. He got better with the publicity, he had one really solid recruiting class and landed big-time transfers, but he always struck me as a a very good Xs and Os coach. I imagine this strikes you as strange, but UD made a Sweet 16 run with six scholarship players and a talented walk-on. Nobody was taller than 6'6". He wasn't winning with athleticism. Judging by players' comments after the fact, I don't think he was doing it through relationships or motivation. I think he was out-scheming the opposition.
I mention all this irrelevant Dayton history to encourage you to hold out some hope. I've watched a few IU games this year, and they look like they're in disarray, but I would expect things to turn around next year. He never recruited well at Dayton. That doesn't seem to be the case in Bloomington. I think if he can get some buy-in, the Hoosiers will be much improved next year.
Its still early, but I am glad OSU got Holtmann instead of Archie.
I think they're very different jobs. The ceiling on the IU job is higher. It's been a bit, but if you can get things going, it's a legit blue blood. The flip-side though is the hostility that comes from such an intense fan base. The bar for expectations at IU is really high (perhaps too high).
Ohio State can be a very good program, but when it's down, it garners a shoulder shrug from most. Folks will bunker down and wait for the Spring Game. In Bloomington, they're calling for your head.
I think IU is a better job than OSU, but not by much. And if you look at it honestly each passing season IU continues to get further and further away from being a blue blood. I know its not the end all be all, but in the past twenty years IU has been seeded 1 in the NCAA once, and their next best seeding was 4. In the past 20 years they have one top 5 final ranking and seven times they weren't ranked. In the past twenty years, they haven't been very good.
IU and OSU are different jobs. Basketball at IU is "the" sport, where basketball at OSU is something to bridge the gap between football and the spring game. I think the job at OSU is a top 10 job in the country, as long as you are ok being second fiddle. And if you are ok with that, its one heck of a gig. The pressure just isn't that high and the resources are fantastic. If you want to be BMOC, don't come to coach OSU basketball, but if you want to have a chance to win a title while coaching in a less pressure packed environment, it has everything you want.
What I do find amazing, the last team to win a NCAA Title was MSU in 2000. And if you consider that was UC's tournament to win until Martin broke his leg, its pretty alarming.
Having lived in Bloomington, I can tell you the energy for basketball is still there. The only thing comparable in my experiences, coincidentally, is OSU football. So, I'm not sure the win-losses argument has much traction yet. It's a powder keg. If someone can get that program rolling, it'll be something to behold. Hope it does too. That's a big part of the culture.
And to turn this back over to the resident Hoosiers (on a negative note), tough game last night. That was a February B1G battle; ugly. It's probably too late -- and he already promised dramatic changes -- but hard to see this season getting turned around.
This is (more or less) where I am.
Granted, this amounts to nit-picking and a pet peeve of mine, I know, but I'm beginning to really HATE the term "blue blood" in regards to College Basketball. IMHO, that term is better utilized within CFB, where the terms "blue blood" and "elite program" more often dovetail. One's a historical term that denotes periods of time in which a program operated as a sustained, elite program, while one -- the only one of the two that amounts to a hill of beans in regards to recruiting relevance to today's recruiting kids/targets -- denotes more of the current state of a program.
That said, the point about IU, with each passing season, moving further and further away from a point in which IU's status as an historical blue blood can be viewed as a positive with recruits is VERY relevant --- not as much as the fact that IU hasn't been an sustained, elite program for over 25 years (no getting around it, and largely no fault but their own) but relevant, nonetheless.
Also, the comparison between the programs (OSU and IU) is, IMHO, spot-on. OSU seems to fly under the radar as an elite job, but it's definitely a top 10 job to me. And if IU is considered a top 5 five job by most accounts, while OSU safely lands in the top 10, that tells me that the ceiling for the OSU job is right there with IU's.
Lastly, even more alarming that a B1G NCAA title drought, is the fact that since '00 and the MSU victory -- and I may be forgetting a team or two -- only on 5 occasions ('02, '07, '09, '13 and '18) has a B1G team reached the National Championship game. That's truly bizarre.
The grievous error at the time of both hires by both fan-bases, as well as the National media/talking-heads and CBB fans as a whole: The assumption that CAM was walking into a better a situation than Holtmann.
No matter how one chooses to spin it, for various reasons, the reverse has proven to be true.
Which would you rather inherit? Matta's players or Crean's players?
Yeah, me too.
Having said that, I'll go back to what I stated at the time of Holtmann's hire, which still holds true today.......Neither coach has ever coached a team (at least on paper) as talented as Crean's last IU team (even sans an injured Anunoby), which, somehow, still managed to fall short of the NCAAs. Give either coach that much to work with and that team should be a Sweet 16 lock.
That's all it's going to take for either coach.
The B1G's drought is alarming. To me, the early entrants have affected our conference more than any other.
Archie will win huge his 4th year.
We got the right guy, he just needs time.
That's definitely been a HUGE factor.
But a key factor in the B1G's drought -- and key hit on the B1G overall power rating during that period: While I mean no offense/disrespect to the following schools, it really didn't help matters that, no matter how stellar their coaching was compared concurrently on the average with the rest of the conference, Michigan State and Wisconsin (Silly me, I failed to mention their '15 Natty Title appearance against the hired guns in a previous post) spent a considerable period of time carrying the flag for the conference, while the traditional conference flagships -- IU, Michigan, Illinois and OSU -- have each spent a considerable amount of time in down periods.
IU - No need to elaborate.
OSU - O' Brien screwed up the program after a hot start; Matta righted the ship and it wasn't that long ago that OSU spent a sustained period as the conference's top program, but then dropped off precipitously.
Michigan - Two bad hires (though the residual sanctions from both the Fisher and Ellerbe eras didn't help Amaker) post Fisher/pre Beilein, of whom many wanted to ride out of town after year four of his tenure.
Illinois - Underwood may well return the program to prominence in time, but how'd firing Bruce Weber work out?
Iowa - While this may be the best Iowa team since the Acie Earl years, they're on coach number three since idiotically "retiring" Dr. Tom Davis prematurely.
Purdue - More than anything else, key injuries have cost the Boilermakers dearly: Losing Haas in round 1 last year prevented a likely lengthy NCAA run. And who knows what would've happened in '11 if Robbie Hummel had been healthy.
Minnesota - Given that the school is well-resourced, located in a major market in a talent-laden state, give me one good reason why the Gophers -- with the right coach in place -- shouldn't be on par with the Badgers as a program.
I agree. But apparently, we are in the minority, as a such a post on an IU board (at least judging from my viewing) would likely be followed with:
1)So, you're accepting mediocrity?
2)We've been patient for nearly twenty years.
To the later. despite attempts at revisionist history, with the obvious exception of Crean, the rosters of the first two seasons of every IU coach post-Lou Watson (including Knight) have been FAR superior to Miller's.
Let's place this into perspective... The defensive foundation is in place, once Archie has the type of shooters and players with high hoops IQ at his disposal that we've been accustomed to as IU fans -- and there's no reason to believe that he will not -- there's no reason why his teams will not win big annually against top-flight competition.
With all due respect to what seems like a great deal of Hoosier brethren (or fans of rival schools), you seem to be overthinking this, while overlooking the above........or spending too much time listening to Dan Dakich.:)
Rumors swirling that Smith and Green are gone come the end of the season. If this happens and Romeo leaves that gives us 3 more schollays. Don't know what Brooks is gonna do nor what baby Wat is gonna do either.
Fitzner -- the one whiff that we can place on Archie -- will also be gone, opening up yet another schollay. We can't count on Hunter's health next season, nor Anderson making a significant jump in play (though it's certainly possible; witness Collin Hartman from Freshman to Sophomore), so CAM must load up on as many shooters as possible.
Utilize every avenue. Incoming Freshman (Harlond Beverly?), JuCo's (Sean McNeil?), Transfer portal, the moon....wherever.
Smith has been in a funk every since his Father has taken to numerous tweets bashing the coaching staff, which began around the Illinois game - the last IU home victory. Also, around that same time period, Green -- and I'm fairly certain we've all heard this rumor -- was apparently was involved in a tiff (not necessarily of the physical nature) with another player (presumably Romeo), causing a rift/split between the players.
On top of that, when he was first hired, Archie apparently wanted to turn over the roster by at least five players either via transfers or de-commitments (Justin's class) and was rebuffed by Glass due to the team's APR from the previous season.
Color me not surprised in the least by any of this.
Even more evidence that at least 90 per cent of the Hoosier's issues are due to personnel, as opposed to coaching.
An NBA scouts take on IU:
https://www.wdrb.com/sports/bozich-s...2dc83768e.htmlQuote:
“I like Romeo. To me, Romeo is a top-five pick. He will go no later than No. 8.
“I know some people have questioned him because of the season that Indiana is having, but look at who he is playing with.
“They have one guy (Juwan Morgan) who will probably play in the G-League. The rest of those guys would be substitutes coming off the bench on the good teams in the Big Ten. It’s just not a very talented team.
The defense rests.
I was counting Fitzner...right now we are full up with TJD and Franklin.
As far as that APR, that stuff probably cost Archie getting McKinley Wright...Glass "made" Arch go after Crean's commits.
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Pretty alarming stuff...but if the shoe fits?
Dumb question...is it still possible to win the way Knight did basically locking up the best instate talent and cherry picking Illinois and Ohio?
Not a dumb question at all.
When you factor in "the region" - NW Indiana - there's so much talent within the state that it shouldn't matter if UK, Louisville, OSU et al nab their fair share of it. That's been going on seemingly forever -- way back to Knight's salad days, when Knight was signing top-flight IHSAA talent on a regular basis.
It's not so much a matter of "locking up" the best instate talent (you're obviously, with so much talent within the state, still going to miss out on a great deal of talent; especially so in today's information/social media/every major team's games on TV era), but from IU's perspective, it's really this simple -- and this has to be a cumulative thing, not just two out of five years (see Crean, Tom): Sign two or three of the best IHSAA players (one-and-done type talent or not) each season, and that should be enough to restore the program to prominence. Not that CAM shouldn't venture beyond the border states if necessary to augment the IHSAA kids, but the concentration should be first and foremost instate.
Having said that, I still maintain (and I wouldn't bet against CAM ultimately proving to be successful in doing so; after all CAM's only true IU class that's his own featured players from Lafayette and South Bend, respectably) that reestablishing a recruiting base in the region will go a long way (likely the icing on the cake) in reaching the aforementioned mission. IU hasn't gained such a year-in, year-out presence there since Branch McCracken hung up his whistle.
Is there that much talent in Indiana? Also factor in Butler being in the Big East instead of the conference they were in 25 years ago.
Is IU relevant in Chicago? It seems like Chicago is a B1G town not really a big draw for one individual school.
Ohio is interesting in that both MSU and Michigan have done a better job of recruiting it than OSU.
CAM may have a better shot at recruiting Ohio because of his ties, but if you are in a battle with OSU, MSU, Michigan, and UC, its a tough one really to count on. Lets not forget in Ohio that football team in Columbus is a very important recruiting tool.
Yes there is that much talent in the state. Butler has nothing to do with it, they always got their share of home grown talent. Notre Dame is the one that is to be concerned with.
IU is very relevant in Chicago as far as fan base, but that city is a mess concerning how kids are being recruited.
Archie landed a recruit from Ohio this past season. He is out for the year due to medical reasons.
Something that Zach Osterman brought up on a podcast recently,
"The B1G is the conference is still officiated like its the 1980's. Too many times that the post play is particularly ugly, no blood no foul."
As a result, B1G players get used to not being called for fouls on "minor" contact, but that changes in the NCAA tournament.
Similarly, they're often discouraged from post moves they should be attempting and players from ACC/SEC/BE will make those moves and have easier time in Tourney action.
Zach's correct.
Living in ACC country at the time, watching a lot of ACC ball -- a conference in which whistles blew seemingly for every ticky-tack foul at the time, this was particularly noticeable during the mid-to-late 90's, before Michael Redd's OSU team ended a six season B1G Ten (as it was obviously known then) Final Four drought. And of course, MSU ended an 11 season B1G NCAA championship drought the next season. Still no excuse for IU teams getting blown out by powerhouses like Boston College, Colorado and Pepperdine in the first round three out of four seasons, though.
I also happen to believe that same issue also adversely affected Bob Huggins' UC Bearcats' teams post '92 FF. Granted, Huggins' Danny Fortson years Bearcats were, in my eyes, more physical than the Nick Van Exel teams, but I digress....
https://247sports.com/college/indian...ipo-129439340/Quote:
How did IU go from being one of the best 3-point shooting teams in the land to one of the worst in just three years?
For answers to that question, we need to take a look at the directions IU went in terms of talent and how the decisions from a decade ago are still reverberating through Assembly Hall.
A long article, but worth the read.
Firstly, there were multiple factors in IU's last loss to Iowa:
- Too many missed bunnies
- Too many missed free throws
- Brick city from three-point land (much like missed free throws, a broken record)
- The zebras (looked like the second half of the '92 FF game against Duke all over again)
But, IMHO, the deciding factor: The loss of Phinisee (who had helped to hold Bohannan in check for 3/4 of the game) late in the game to injury.
Any word as to the severity of his foot injury?
And we sit and wait for Bucky to beat us again......
True, but the officials for whatever reason appear officiate the B1G differently than they do the ACC. I'm not sure why that is.
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Archie said that it was cramps, not a foot issue. So hopefully nothing going forward.
Public Service Announcement: Hydrate everyone.
Reasoning for hope: The '14 shooting-deprived Hoosiers (Vonleh's season) somehow managed a home upset over then-#3 Wisconsin.
Reasoning for a (likely) reality check: Said Hoosiers team shot free throws at a 73% clip for the season --70 per cent for that particular evening -- substantially better than this season.
Folks, it's time to play IU basketball false narratives.....
The subject for today: Romeo Langford!
#1: One-and-done types like Langford should be avoided at IU.....
Would you rather high-end IHSAA talent lands elsewhere, as it did more often than not under the Davis and Crean regimes?
Next.....
#2: Romeo would be a fool to declare for the draft after this season...He's not ready, and thanks to his team's sub-par season, will fall out of the high lottery.
< Price is Right buzzer sound >
Whether Romeo is "ready" for the NBA or not, it's been proven conclusively that NBA scouts judge based solely on long-term potential, could not care less about NCAA team performance, and also realize that his long-range shooting will develop eventually. Besides -- and it still amazes me just how many fans fail to realize this -- the days of drafting for need/immediate impact within the lottery ended once nearly every high-end player began leaving school following their sophomore years, if not earlier.
#3: Archie Miller is wasting Romeo's season because he has no clue how to coach high end talent.
< Price is Right fail theme >
So it's Archie's fault for not waving a magic wand to enable players to remain healthy, poor shooters to shoot well (both free throws and perimeter shots) and enable players with a low BBall IQ -- I'm looking at you, Smith and Green) to suddenly morph into basketball Einsteins? And it's also Archie's fault he was unable to remake the roster to his liking from the get-go due to APR restrictions?
With all due respect to those playing at home who believe the last narrative, you don't even get a copy of the home game. :D