On the declining quality of the ORG

[edabbs44]

To be clear, that thread was derailed with the very first post.

Wouldn't something have to be on the rails to be subsequently derailed at some point?

[mth123]

To be clear, the thread was a good thread with a solid, rational, healthy debate, until Mike dropped his "I'm so offended, I'm going to take my ball and go home" bomb.

I don't think that was clear at all. It looked to me like a thread that was started with the specfic intent of drawing Cards fans into a *****ng match so that the mob mentality that exists here could pile on. I thought so before Mike ever made his post.

[757690]

I don't think that was clear at all. It looked to me like a thread that was started with the specfic intent of drawing Cards fans into a *****ng match so that the mob mentality that exists here could pile on. I thought so before Mike ever made his post.

I agree that seemed to be the intent of the original poster.

But read the thread again. It was civil, rational, a solid debate of facts, until Mike and others started crying about how stupid, low class and vile it was. The level of discourse was brought down not by those discussing the issue, but by those who simply didn't want the issue discussed. It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

[mth123]

I agree that seemed to be the intent of the original poster.

But read the thread again. It was civil, rational, a solid debate of facts, until Mike and others started crying about how stupid, low class and vile it was. The level of discourse was brought down not by those discussing the issue, but by those who simply didn't want the issue discussed. It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

The logic of that thread was something along the lines of:

1. The Sun is in the sky.
2. There aren't many things in the sky.
3. Therefore, I conclude that anything in the sky must be the sun.

There was nothing but inuendo and the first post was obviously baiting. If you think that type of logic and that behavior makes a good thread, well, to each his own.

[757690]

The logic of that thread was something along the lines of:

1. The Sun is in the sky.
2. There aren't many things in the sky.
3. Therefore, I conclude that anything in the sky must be the sun.

There was nothing but inuendo and the first post was obviously baiting. If you think that type of logic and that behavior makes a good thread, well, to each his own.

The logic at first was sound and the arguments as unemotional as any on this board.

The logic went like this:

757590 has been poor his whole life and works for minimum wage.
Suddenly he starts driving a brand new Mercedes.
I wonder how that happened? That seems suspicious. What are some possible explanations?

[Joseph]

I think part of the declining quality is the fact its not so much discussion anymore as it is arguing.

[RedEye]

The logic at first was sound and the arguments as unemotional as any on this board.

The logic went like this:

757590 has been poor his whole life and works for minimum wage.
Suddenly he starts driving a brand new Mercedes.
I wonder how that happened? That seems suspicious. What are some possible explanations?

It would be fine if there weren't ONE dominant explanation that was insinuated for it all along. Let's not pretend that the thread was just an open, honest "inquiring minds want to know" kind of deal. It was a targeted and specific set of leading questions meant to provoke and ruffle feathers. Not the type of fare we want here, IMO.

[New York Red]

I was one of the ones against the merger. Even tho I had the time in, and the post count, I had no interest in joining ORG.

To me, many (not all, just some) of the ORG always came across as the serious baseball guys. The ones who followed sabermetrics and all that statistical stuff. Who knew baseball history down to the nth degree, who could name the 3rd batter of the 7th game of the XX WS game right down to how many pitches they faced in each at bat, how many strikes and balls and how fast they ran to first. I never wanted to be that kind of fan Not that it's bad in any way, just too... Intense for me. This is fun. Baseball is a good time and entertainment. I just don't want to *work* at it.

the old Sun Deck was more like sitting down in a sports bar with a bunch of guys who, while they love the game, knew the history to an extent, followed some of the stats, etc. They were more there for a good time. Not to analyze everything. They love the game, and do take it serious, they're good, loyal fans, but not THAT serious. If I'm making any sense....

I don't want to be in a place where every post is analyzed and inspected to meet a standard of "quality". If you're the type of fan who love the minute details of statistics and want to analyze every aspect of the game, hey, go for it. If that makes you happy, then I'm all for it for you. But the fact that *I* don't go to that level, doesn't make me any less of a fan. or my contributions less "quality".

I couldn't have said it better myself. I had more fun posting in Sundeck, because we didn't attack each other's opinions there. We just talked baseball. I still find it hilariously ironic that the poster who started this thread is possibly the absolute worst at what he's accusing others of doing.

[RedEye]

I couldn't have said it better myself. I had more fun posting in Sundeck, because we didn't attack each other's opinions there. We just talked baseball. I still find it hilariously ironic that the poster who started this thread is possibly the absolute worst at what he's accusing others of doing.

Please be specific. What am I the worst at? Posting bad quality content? That was my concern when I started this thread and I'd like to improve if that's the case.

[mth123]

The logic at first was sound and the arguments as unemotional as any on this board.

The logic went like this:

757590 has been poor his whole life and works for minimum wage.
Suddenly he starts driving a brand new Mercedes.
I wonder how that happened? That seems suspicious. What are some possible explanations?

Nope more like:

757590 has been poor his whole life and works for minimum wage.
Suddenly he starts driving a brand new Mercedes.
He must be a criminal.

[757690]

Nope more like:

757590 has been poor his whole life and works for minimum wage.
Suddenly he starts driving a brand new Mercedes.
He must be a criminal.

I'll just assume that you didn't read the thread, because that is simply false.

No one in that thread said that Molina was using PED's, or that he must be using PED's. In fact, most posters kept saying over and over again that they were not accusing Molina of using PED's.

All anyone was saying was that there was enough evidence to be suspicious.

Read the thread again, and quote someone saying that Molina must be using PED's.

[Brutus]

I'll just assume that you didn't read the thread, because that is simply false.

No one in that thread said that Molina was using PED's, or that he must be using PED's. In fact, most posters kept saying over and over again that they were not accusing Molina of using PED's.

All anyone was saying was that there was enough evidence to be suspicious.

Read the thread again, and quote someone saying that Molina must be using PED's.

It shouldn't even matter. The demonization of people for simply being cynical about PED use is way overboard here. You'd think their mothers are being insulted.

It's accusing people of taking substances to gain an advantage, an advantage that, in some cases, would be legal for an average beer league or church league softball player seeking over the counter aid. It's been absolutely established that's something that is rampant in baseball and has been for two decades. It's not accusing people of murder or rape. If people are so offended by the idea that athletes might be taking enhancers, they should stop watching baseball because frankly... that's the world we live in. Being curious about any player that exhibits the established signs should not be treated with hostile disdain.

On a different note, it seems some want to bend over backwards to suck up to Cardinals fans. I don't have a lot of hatred for other teams or fans, as I understand it's just sports. But if someone wants to be a little biased against rivals for no good reason whatsoever, let 'em do that. This is a Reds' board, not a Cards' board. Reds' fans should have a little extra leeway to be critical.

[jojo]

"the cardinals suck!"

"cardinals fans suck!"

"ive got no evidence that can withstand scrutiny and this is pretty much randomly brought up by player x is a cheater (especially if player x is a key cardinal)!!!!!"

This kind of stuff is blowing off steam and smack talk material that isn't any more interesting even if it's directed against the cards instead of the reds. Basically it's Cincinatti.com rather than RedsZone.com material. It's also subject matter that always seems to lead to lower quality discourse and threads that have a tendency to be closed.

Personally, and obviously Boss and GIK can disagree, I think one should feel a little extra burden to elevate discussion and stimulate the baseball cranium if one is going to START a thread in the ORG forum. The above memes really are both tired and lowest common denominator IMHO.

[Raisor]

If there are posters that like the sun deck more there is no rule saying you have to post in the ORG

[New York Red]

If there are posters that like the sun deck more there is no rule saying you have to post in the ORG

The current Sundeck board isn't the same as it was before the merger. Care to guess why?