Carlton Daal

[wastedtime]

If anything, I consider high error totals in the low minors to be a GOOD sign. It means he is getting to a ton of balls and trying to make difficult plays. You can teach a guy better footwork, throwing mechanics, and decision making skills, but you can't teach raw athleticism or innate confidence/aggressiveness. As Doug pointed out above, lots of great MLB SS had high error totals at the start of their pro career. It's part of the learning process.

That makes me wonder about Billy Hamilton. It just never did seem to click for him at SS. I think we have a future Gold Glove in CF, now, though.

[Rojo]

You know who else had high error totals -- lots of crummy shortstops who never made it to the bigs. Daal's still in my cautiously optimistic column for now.

[dougdirt]

You know who else had high error totals -- lots of crummy shortstops who never made it to the bigs. Daal's still in my cautiously optimistic column for now.

Sure. But that is why you need to look at the tools and why the errors are/were happening instead of just looking at a total number or errors.

[Rojo]

Sure. But that is why you need to look at the tools and why the errors are/were happening instead of just looking at a total number or errors.

Thus my original post, Mr. Paywall.

[dougdirt]

Thus my original post, Mr. Paywall.

That's Mr. Gray to you.

[JayBruceFan]

Your last name isn't Dirt? I feel betrayed

[PepperJack]

Your last name isn't Dirt? I feel betrayed

It's pronounced Dirte.

[dougdirt]

It's pronounced Dirte.

Don't try to spice things up, Dirt!

[Chuckie]

If anything, I consider high error totals in the low minors to be a GOOD sign. It means he is getting to a ton of balls and trying to make difficult plays. You can teach a guy better footwork, throwing mechanics, and decision making skills, but you can't teach raw athleticism or innate confidence/aggressiveness. As Doug pointed out above, lots of great MLB SS had high error totals at the start of their pro career. It's part of the learning process.

I tend to think high error totals are a BAD sign, but we can agree to disagree on this one. For every Ozzie Smith that had a high error total one year in the low minors, there are 100 shortstops with high error totals who fizzled out because they weren't good enough defensively. There is no way to spin having 30 errors by mid-June as a good thing for a young shortstop IMO.

[RedTeamGo!]

There is no way to spin having 30 errors by mid-June as a good thing for a young shortstop IMO.

Yes, there is, it's called listening to what pro baseball scouts who have scouted shortstops for their life have to say over looking at an error total on a computer screen.

[Chuckie]

Yes, there is, it's called listening to what pro baseball scouts who have scouted shortstops for their life have to say over looking at an error total on a computer screen.

OK, you think that having 30 errors is a good thing, I think it's a bad thing. Fair enough. (But I've always liked stats over scouts. It's the Moneyball in me. Scouting is important, but the stats are of the utmost importance.) Will be interesting to look back on this thread in a few years. I hope that Daal turns into the Reds' SS of the future. We certainly need a legit SS prospect because we currently do not have one.

[RedTeamGo!]

OK, you think that having 30 errors is a good thing, I think it's a bad thing. Fair enough. (But I've always liked stats over scouts. It's the Moneyball in me. Scouting is important, but the stats are of the utmost importance.) Will be interesting to look back on this thread in a few years. I hope that Daal turns into the Reds' SS of the future. We certainly need a legit SS prospect because we currently do not have one.

I am not saying stats are not important, but you have to look at stats with context.

He is a 20 year old still growing into his body. 30 errors means he is getting to a lot of balls most would not. Scouts say he has the potential to be a "special" defensive shortstop. Of course it's possible he will not be, but to write him off at age 20 because of his error total alone based on absolutely no other evidence is not "moneyball" it is just silly.

[dougdirt]

OK, you think that having 30 errors is a good thing, I think it's a bad thing. Fair enough. (But I've always liked stats over scouts. It's the Moneyball in me. Scouting is important, but the stats are of the utmost importance.) Will be interesting to look back on this thread in a few years. I hope that Daal turns into the Reds' SS of the future. We certainly need a legit SS prospect because we currently do not have one.

You have never read Moneyball if you think anything you said has a thing to do with Moneyball.

30 Errors is not a good thing. But it also doesn't mean he can't play the position in the future.

Carlton Daal is a legit shortstop prospect.

[redsof72]

How does the fact that he has 30 errors mean he is getting to more balls than anyone else? You are trying to read something into the numbers that are not there. The error he made last night was on a ball hit right at him. Most of his errors have come on routine throws.

Daal has talent, yes. But his error total is an indication of mistakes. From strictly a long term perspective, the high number of errors is something that can hopefully be overcome, but there is nothing good about it. It is causing the pitchers to throw too many pitches, come out of the game sooner, enjoy less success and build less confidence.

Baseball, even in the minor leagues, is about winning the game TODAY. It is the accumulation of playing 140 games to win (along with the early work) that eventually becomes what we term "player development."

[Chuckie]

How does the fact that he has 30 errors mean he is getting to more balls than anyone else? You are trying to read something into the numbers that are not there. The error he made last night was on a ball hit right at him. Most of his errors have come on routine throws.

Daal has talent, yes. But his error total is an indication of mistakes. From strictly a long term perspective, the high number of errors is something that can hopefully be overcome, but there is nothing good about it. It is causing the pitchers to throw too many pitches, come out of the game sooner, enjoy less success and build less confidence.

Baseball, even in the minor leagues, is about winning the game TODAY. It is the accumulation of playing 140 games to win (along with the early work) that eventually becomes what we term "player development."

Because they are trying to spin things to fit their argument. In no way is having 30 errors in June a good sign for Carlton Daal. But some ITT would have you believe that it is. This is the beauty of message boards, I suppose, but it does blow my mind that anyone would think having 30 errors midseason is a positive sign for a young shortstop. Yes, if every one of his errors (or even a large percentage) were due to him diving and getting a ball that most players wouldn't get to, and then making a bad throw, it might be different. But at least most of his errors from what I've read have been "unforced" errors to use a tennis term.

But, Ozzie Smith had a season in the minors when he had a lot of errors, so we should disregard the fact that our No. 1 SS prospect (largely by default) has 30 errors in June. Nothing to see here.