He's already done it twice.Originally Posted by MWM
He's already done it twice.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
Not this version of Djokovic and Murray. Djokovic played a bad match in the 2013 Wimbledon final and was playing against both Murray and the crowd (what I think will be Wawrinka's downfall tomorrow), but Djokovic also played a marathon semi against Del Potro that lasted almost 5 hours. Novak looked gassed from the beginning of that match and wasn't himself. Murray played a great match at the US Open final 9 months before that.
Obviously, it's possible could beat him, but I don't think it's very likely. There was a stretch of about a year and a half from the beginning of 2012 through 2013 Wimbledon where Murray was competitive with Djokovic. He won 4 out of 9 matches including the US Open and Wimbledon. But outside of that stretch, Novak has dominated him, including 7 in a row. Djokovic has won 10 out of their last 11 matches (Murray's one win being Wimbledon).
Murray is obviously a very good player, and for about a year, perhaps he belonged in that top group. But a lot of guys have played great for a a year or two. Outside of that 12 month stretch where he won the Olympics, US Open, and Wimbledon, I see him in the same vein as guys like David Ferrer, really close but not quite able to break through in big events. If someone is going to be able to slow down Djokovic right now, I don't believe it will be Murray.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
No doubt Djokovic is at the top of his game.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
Why do I dislike Serena Williams so much? I'm not one generally drawn to severe dislike of athletes, especially in individual sports, but I just can't stand her and all her theatrics on the court. I turn it on and I wind up turning it off soon after because I just don't like watching her at all.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
I love Serena. But I love theatrics - give me loud, theatrical athletes in any sport. Just a bonus that she's American and the GOAT.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
I mean she's playing through the flu, keeps getting down a set and coming back to win. Her run here has been ridiculous - I thought she was done against Sloane Stephens and it keeps happening.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
HeatherC1212 (06-05-2015)
I don't mind loud, enthusiastic theatrics. But much of the time her act is much more like a spoiled rich kid. Those are the theatrics I don't like. And I still don't think she's GOAT. She's not going to pass Stefi in my book, and may be still be behind Martina.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
She's going to end up with more slams than Stefi. And Graf played in a pretty weak era.
Martina yeah maybe. All around I'd buy, but I just don't care about doubles.
Tennis is tough to have these discussions since the tech has changed so much, but I'll take Serena.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Stefi retired around 30, Serena is 33 right now. I'm not sure Stefi's era was weaker than the current one. I actually think her era was stronger. Stefi caught the end of the Martina era and the beginning of Martina Hingis' career, and then had Monica Seles to deal with for a few years (who may have become the GOAT were it not for the attack). There a few other pretty good female players during her era as well.
Outside of Venus, I'm not sure who else I'd consider a legit great player in her era. Sharapova? Maybe, but she's been all over the place in her career, and I think she's had a resurgence lately precisely because there's no one else really that good. Martina Hingis could have been were it not for her early retirement. The only player I'd consider a great one during her era is Justin Henin. She was a great player but injuries made her retire too. And when both Henin and Williams were playing, Henin got the better of Serena. Without Hingis or Henin, Serena really didn't face much competition at all.
Stefi's accomplishments were more impressive to me than Serena's.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
I'd take Serena as the GOAT. I think her mix of power and court coverage makes her almost unbeatable when she's on her game. The women's game right now features a pile of monster hitters and Serena slugs them into submission. Serena probably has the best serve in the history of women's tennis. She's bested her sister, Hingis, Daveport, Capriati, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Kvitova, Azarenka and Li. Steffi, Martina and Margaret Court all have viable claims as well, but I'd argue the women's game has evolved a lot and Serena's the alpha predator of that evolved game.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Side note: it's past time where women's tennis goes to best-of-five in Grand Slams.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Kingspoint (06-04-2015),Patrick Bateman (06-04-2015),Redsfaithful (06-04-2015)
So, does Wawrinka have any chance tomorrow?
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
He's always got a slugger's chance, but Novak is playing at a ridiculously high level. Covers the court like Rafa, rips shots like Roger.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
He is playing really well, but it's hard to see.
Serena has a shot at a calendar slam, anyone think she'll do it?
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
I think Serena will get the calendar slam. And if she does, I think even if she falls a slam short will solidify her as the GOAT when you consider age and all. I do get what MWM is saying...I don't think she's very likeable but likeable doesn't mean she isn't great. I don't think LeBron James is likeable but he's the best player in the NBA. Sometimes you just have to appreciate greatness and separate the person from the athlete/competitor.
Graf was really good and it's maybe not fair to wonder about hypotheticals, but there is no doubt that it's fair to question the Seles factor. Graf won 8 of 9 grand slams by 19, more than any one else she is compared to (other than Court who most would agree is not the greatest ever). But once Seles entered the picture, Graf only won 2 out of her next 12. And of the 10 she didn't win, Seles won 8 of them. And after the stabbing, Graf began to dominate again. So in a sick way, that stabber really did help Graf greatly. Obviously it's not Graf's fault, but that lapse in dominance is telling in my book because of Seles' own dominance during her time on the court.
Sadly, as awesome as Serena is, I'm just not sure how much longer she can keep it up. I think she definitely should nab the US open, but beyond that I am a little concerned for/about her. But then again, even when tennis players begin to sharply decline (isn't it amazing how Serena hasn't experienced this at her age??) they usually can round up another grand slam or 2 before calling it a career. I am certainly rooting for Serena to finish with more than Graf. I'd love to see her pass Court too but that's a tall order. Another 4 slams might be a reach. But who knows. Serena has defied most odds and she's an absolute beast.
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