Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

[TRF]

Depends on the lens you're looking through. They're similar in that they're wily, use a wide variety of pitches, don't get injured, field their position well, and tend to have success without above-average fastball velocity, to name a few ways...

You just described a ton of #5 starters.

Also, you are comparing the Bronson of the last five years to the Leake of his first 5. You don't see why that isn't an even comparison for either guy?

[TRF]

If you adjust last night's start to Leake's true talent level, he went 6 innings and gave up 4 runs which is nothing special and surely nothing to write home about.

True, but I won't take away what he actually did do. He just dominated what some are saying is one of the best teams in baseball in their park. The Reds have historically sucked on the west coast in recent years, and doing that is huge. I wasn't expecting a lot from him last night, but I figured he'd allow at least three runs and keep the Reds in the game, mostly due to park factor. This was a pleasant surprise. I cannot poo poo it.

[lollipopcurve]

You just described a ton of #5 starters.

I always thought what distinguished 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s was results.

Leake and Arroyo are not twins. But they do have similarities.

[traderumor]

Lord, the guy pitches a gem and there is still bellyaching about whether he is any good or not. Schleprock lives.

[Falls City Beer]

If they gave a Cy Young to each quintile starter, Mike Leake would have like ALL the #5 Cy Young's the last five years.

Maybe this year he'll earn a promotion to the #4 quintile.

[jojo]

Lord, the guy pitches a gem and there is still bellyaching about whether he is any good or not. Schleprock lives.

Lord, the guy pitches a gem and there is still bellyaching tha others aren't calling him Cueto, Latos, Kershaw and can't enjoy a good effort. Schleprock lives.

[Falls City Beer]

We're not bellyaching, we're teasing. We know nothing's going to change your mind on Leake.

[jojo]

If they gave a Cy Young to each quintile starter, Mike Leake would have like ALL the #5 Cy Young's the last five years.

Maybe this year he'll earn a promotion to the #4 quintile.

Presumably as a backend starter no one really kvetches about the knvetching youre hyperbolically knvetching?

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We're not bellyaching, we're teasing. We know nothing's going to change your mind on Leake.

Actually we know nothing is going to change yours.

[Falls City Beer]

Presumably as a backend starter no one really kvetches about the knvetching youre hyperbolically knvetching?

- - - Updated - - -



Actually we know nothing is going to change yours.

I'm not accusing you of kvetching. Just being wrong. Mike Leake is not a backend starter. Not when you consider the park he pitches in. The argument is just prima facie nuts.

[jojo]

I'm not accusing you of kvetching. Just being wrong. Mike Leake is not a backend starter. Not when you consider the park he pitches in. The argument is just prima facie nuts.

He is a backend starter when you consider the context of his body of work and the quality of the defense that plays behind him.

It's disengenous of you to characterize the the argument I've put forth in this thread with your current meme, makes you look silly to use the meme after he has a good start, and wrong of you to use 16 starts as the basis of your argument.

[Falls City Beer]

He is a backend starter when you consider the context of his body of work and the quality of the defense that plays behind him.

It's disengenous of you to characterize the the argument I've put forth in this thread with your current meme, makes you look silly to use the meme after he has a good start, and wrong of you to use 16 starts as the basis of your argument.

His entire body of work suggests he's no worse than a #3 starter. Now if you consider a #3 starter to be backend, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree with the nominal distinctions of backend vs. fronted. But in no way is Mike Leake a four or five starter, among the bottom 40% of qualifying starters. Even considering defense.

[MikeThierry]

He is a backend starter when you consider the context of his body of work and the quality of the defense that plays behind him.

It's disengenous of you to characterize the the argument I've put forth in this thread with your current meme, makes you look silly to use the meme after he has a good start, and wrong of you to use 16 starts as the basis of your argument.

I think most teams would want a starter like Leake on their team. His numbers aren't that bad, especially this year and last year. I understand the defense argument but I also give him credit for playing in the ridiculous ball park he plays in.

This seems like a classic case of things look worse if you're a fan of the team but fans of other teams think he's a decent player. I think almost every team in baseball has that one player they get on but other people value.

[lollipopcurve]

One of the great pleasures of watching pitchers like Leake and Arroyo is that they fiddle around and keep adjusting. For example, this year Leake is really making progress with the cut fastball. When he's got that and his curve working, he can carve up lineups. When he's going good and working fast, he's like Cueto Lite.

[Falls City Beer]

If Leake pitched in Petco, he would never have an ERA over 3.25 because his one weakness, fly balls, would never hurt him. And no one, not even stats folk, would say he is a bottom of the rotation starter. That language would not be on their radar. This entire discussion has emphasized Leake's defense while almost entirely eliding the impact of GAB-which is substantial-on his otherwise efficient performances.

[M2]

What makes Leake similar to Bronson is no matter how well he does some people just aren't going to give him credit for it. My take is who cares whether they can grasp the obvious (that he's a pretty good pitcher). I'm just happy he's wearing a Reds uniform.