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Thread: Hamilton-Choo comparison

  1. #1
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Hamilton-Choo comparison

    When the Reds let Shin Soo Choo walk, many people, including Reds fans and the national media, wondered if the kid Billy Hamilton had what it took to replace Choo and his production from 2013. Choo came off a phenomenal year, and was one of our two best offensive players last season. However, that shot his value up, and alas, he's wearing a different uniform this season.

    Here are the current 2014 stats for the two, as of 7/9/2014:

    Choo has a line of .250/.373/.391 for a .765 OPS. He has an OPS+ of 113, 14 doubles, one triple, 9 homers and 31 rbi, 3 sb, and a .9 WAR. And defensively, he's been moved to left field, where he's posted -8 DRS and a -8.8 UZR. Not to mention he's working on a 7 year, $130 million contract that's in its first year. As he continues to age, I expect that to be a huge albatross towards the end.

    Now, how has Billy held up? He's hitting .285/.319/.420 (yes, he's slugging almost 30 points higher than Choo) with a .740 OPS and a 104 OPS+. He has 5 homers to go with 36 rbi , 37 SB, 18 doubles, 5 triples and a 2.5 WAR. Not to mention he's been fabulously handling his transition to center field.

    Take away a rough first month for Hamilton, and this comparison isn't even close. I thought from the get-go that signing Choo long term would be a mistake, but I honestly felt that Billy would suffer some big time growing pains this season and that Choo would outperform him by a mile, leaving a huge hole in the Reds lineup. So far, Billy has been better on defense, on the basepaths, he's hit for more power, and his patience and ability to work the count have been much better than I expected. It's unlikely he can ever have the eye that Choo does or the OBP, but when you factor in the rest of his numbers, he's a better player RIGHT NOW than Choo.

    And that, my friends, I could have never imagined.
    Last edited by cincrazy; 07-10-2014 at 12:14 AM.

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  4. #2
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    This is an interesting post. Thanks!
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  5. #3
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Billy is doing much better than I expected, Choo much worse. Can't be a person alive that said otherwise.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Where have you gone junkhead, our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Year One of this has been MUCH better than I ever imagined it could be. But I thought the Reds made a great call when it came to not giving Choo the 7+ years he was looking for. That was a no-brainer, although I thought it was going to sting a little bit this year.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

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    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Where have you gone junkhead, our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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  11. #7
    Chicks dig the wRC+ villain612's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    2014 Salaries

    Choo: $14 million
    Hamilton: $500k
    Quote Originally Posted by fipp View Post
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    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Take away a rough first month for Hamilton, and this comparison isn't even close.
    I agree with everything and not signing choo was definetly the right choice, but this sentence doesn´t make sence. you can´t take a rough first month away. if you do take choo´s rough weeks and playing with injuries away it would be a different story aswell.
    Hamilton has been great, he can or is already evolve/evolving into a fan favourite and is pretty cheap.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  14. #9
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    I think there were a lot of misconceptions about Choo. He OPS' d over .885 once in his career. That was in under 100 games. That is not a twenty million dollar man. Particularly at that age.
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    To give Walt some credit (as he gets called "sleeping like an old man on the job").

    - Not signing Choo will prove to be a good idea as 7 years progress..and Hamilton doing the job he's doing is really fortunate for the Reds.
    - Not signing Arroyo as well has proven to be a good idea and yet it is not Cingrani that has made that a good decision but Simon...which is more unheard to me vs. Hamilton.

    Now if we can ever get Bailey and Votto to perform to their highest paid players on roster expectations...we'll be on rolling better than we are.

  16. #11
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I think there were a lot of misconceptions about Choo. He OPS' d over .885 once in his career. That was in under 100 games. That is not a twenty million dollar man. Particularly at that age.
    Pretty ridiculous bar IMO. 13 players in all of baseball OPS'd more than he did last year and only 5 that played as many games as he did. That list is Trout, Votto, Cano, CDavis, and Goldschmidt. Those guys all dwarf Choo's salary or will be any day.

    I still prefer Choo in left by a lot over Ludwick, but to the point of the OP, CF has worked out great so I am happy. Anything that might have robbed us of this Billy Hamilton start is a negative in my book.

  17. #12
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    I agree with everything and not signing choo was definetly the right choice, but this sentence doesn´t make sence. you can´t take a rough first month away. if you do take choo´s rough weeks and playing with injuries away it would be a different story aswell.
    Hamilton has been great, he can or is already evolve/evolving into a fan favourite and is pretty cheap.
    Take away Choo's injury as well if one wants to chop up Hamilton's sample. Choo has hopped on one leg for most of the first half and still has graded out as +16 runs/600 PA better than league average offensively. The rumors of Choo's demise have been greatly exagerrated. If one looks at the guy objectively, one actually has to admire his makeup as that's actually the mark of a warrior beast heart.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  18. #13
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Funny thing. I heard last night that Hamilton's hamstring has been bothering him all season. Been hurting since Spring Training. Has to have it iced after every game. So I guess he has played injured all year too. Of course there are different severities of injuries. But just want to throw this out there to make sure the Choo defense team realizes Hamilton has been bothered this season as well.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  19. #14
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Take away Choo's injury as well if one wants to chop up Hamilton's sample. Choo has hopped on one leg for most of the first half and still has graded out as +16 runs/600 PA better than league average offensively. The rumors of Choo's demise have been greatly exagerrated. If one looks at the guy objectively, one actually has to admire his makeup as that's actually the mark of a warrior beast heart.
    I don't know what you're referring to. All this OP's numbers include the entire season. He didn't cherry pick certain months or as you put it "chop up Hamilton's sample".

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    Re: Hamilton-Choo comparison

    Durability was always a concern with Choo. Besides last year, he simply hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full season very often.


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