8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

[Mutaman]

Our best hitting prospect just reached AA this season, and one of our top prospects heading into this year is our everyday center fielder. Blandino should hopefully be a fast riser, Ervin seemed to be before his High-A struggles. A lot of our best pitchers are at the AA level and shouldn't be thrown to the wolves yet: Stephenson, Lively, Lorenzen, Moscot.

There's a lot of talent, it's just not major league ready.

But that's exactly my point: Other than Billy, we haven't had any "major league ready" talent, at any position, over several years now. Its nice to think that maybe things have corrected themselves, but its pretty obvious that somebody wasn't doing their job for a few years. And neither the Latos trade or the fact that we may have a "high riser" somewhere in the organization excuses that .

[757690]

If heart has not been their problem over the last few weeks ( 2 wins 10 losses),
we are really in trouble talent wise.

Talent, basdball IQ, and fundamentals, which are all separate from heart.

[PepperJack]

But that's exactly my point: Other than Billy, we haven't had any "major league ready" talent, at any position, over several years now. Its nice to think that maybe things have corrected themselves, but its pretty obvious that somebody wasn't doing their job for a few years. And neither the Latos trade or the fact that we may have a "high riser" somewhere in the organization excuses that .

Well that's ignoring Frazier, Mesoraco, and even Cozart. While trying to write off any trades as not counting is swell too.

[757690]

But that's exactly my point: Other than Billy, we haven't had any "major league ready" talent, at any position, over several years now. Its nice to think that maybe things have corrected themselves, but its pretty obvious that somebody wasn't doing their job for a few years. And neither the Latos trade or the fact that we may have a "high riser" somewhere in the organization excuses that .

Reds had insane run of Cueto, Votto, Bruce, Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Fraizer, Mesoraco, and even Cozart. Then they started winning, dropping down in the draft. It happens to nearly every winning team.

- - - Updated - - -

Well that's ignoring Frazier, Mesoraco, and even Cozart. While trying to write off any trades as not counting is swell too.

lol We both had to add "and even Cozart." like minds...

[Mutaman]

Talent, basdball IQ, and fundamentals, which are all separate from heart.

Good. Glad to know the boys are still giving it their all. I'll sleep a lot better tonight.

[Mutaman]

Well that's ignoring Frazier, Mesoraco, and even Cozart. While trying to write off any trades as not counting is swell too.

All three of the above have now been here for at least three years. Other than Billy, the organization has not produced one major league ball player over the last three years and there doesn't appear to be anyone at the triple A level who can contribute in 2015. Zach Stewart? Yonder Alonzo? Logan Ondruzek? Donald Lutz? Somebody was signing some real stiffs for a few years.

[KronoRed]

You don't think we'd cheer a former Red if we were up by 7?

Nobody would be left to cheer

[757690]

You don't think we'd cheer a former Red if we were up by 7?

With this bullpen, up by 7 ain't no time to cheer for the other team.

[indyscott]

Lots of years left to see how "brilliant" these moves are. And anyone can sign a cheater to a long term deal. Most other teams have too much integrity to do so.

I am assuming you dont think the Reds will resign Leake. Or does shoplifting not fit in with organizational integrity?

[757690]

I am assuming you dont think the Reds will resign Leake. Or does shoplifting not fit in with organizational integrity?

Been addressed already in this thread. Baseball integrity. Ruining the integrity of the game of Baseball. But thanks for stopping in to again to defend the Cardinals

[indyscott]

Ahh so who cares what we do off the field. Selective integrity?

[757690]

Ahh so who cares what we do off the field. Selective integrity?

Why should anyone care what anyone else does with their personal life? When they cheat at the game baseball, I hope my basebsll team cares enough about the integrity of the game not to reward them.

[LewGra]

Why should anyone care what anyone else does with their personal life? When they cheat at the game baseball, I hope my basebsll team cares enough about the integrity of the game not to reward them.

Well, our organization hired Jocketty and Baker, so no, it doesn't care enough. Any fan that says they care more about integrity of the game than winning is full of it.

[indyscott]

So you think a team has more integrity by having a rapist on your team then someone who took a diet pill?

[757690]

So you think a team has more integrity by having a rapist on your team then someone who took a diet pill?

Well, our organization hired Jocketty and Baker, so no, it doesn't care enough. Any fan that says they care more about integrity of the game than winning is full of it.

The Reds certainly aren't the poster child for PED integrity, that's for sure. I'm usually the first poster here to remind everyone about Walt and Dusty's past PED connections.

As for Simon, he hasn't had his day in court yet, so the Reds doing anything at this point, would hurt their integrity, not help it. If Simon is convicted of his charges, I would expect the Reds to severe all ties with him immediately.

As for other teams not valuing integrity over winning:

The Giants could used Melky Cabrera in the 2012 playoffs, after his suspension for PED use, but chose not to, because they felt it would have been wrong.

Many MLB teams put an "integrity" clause in player's contracts, which states that the team can suspended you if you act in a way the hurts the team's integrity or reputation. And many players, especially star players, have been suspended under this clause. Managers take star players out of the game if the player isn't acting like a team player.

Teams want to win first and foremost. But they don't want to win at all costs. They want to win the right way. At least most teams.