How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

[Assembly Hall]

I know he's only started 2 games but it's been ugly. I voted 10-19. I really think it's another Ryan Leaf situation. I think he'll start several games for the Browns next year. Do horribly and then eventually get cut and might get another shot with another team at some point.

I love the Ryan Leaf comparison. Not that their games are the same, but I don't think either was/is taking the NFL seriously.

[GAC]

He's no Brady Quinn!

[Assembly Hall]

He's no Brady Quinn!

That's for sure........he has Tim Couch potential!

[GAC]

That's for sure........he has Tim Couch potential!

I really liked Couch ... but that poor kid was coming into a very difficult situation with a new team coming back into the league. Whether he would have succeeded or not elsewhere in the NFL I'm not sure. But the bottom-line is that the poor guy, because of a bad offensive line, and other variables too, simply got the crap beat out of him (LOL)

But don't feel too sorry for Tim. He's married to former Playmate, and Barker Beauty, Heather Kozar.

[Assembly Hall]

Great points GAC. That's why I think Manziel's time with the Browns will be short lived. It aint the O-line but rather what he brings to the table. Not saying he cant get it straightened out, but he better do it in short order. There have been several QBs that couldn't make it with their original teams, to turn out pretty dang good somewhere else.

[traderumor]

I disagree with you buddy. Irregardless of what one thinks of Manziel, to say the Browns aren't doing smart things (plural) isn't recognizing the talent they have accumulated, as well as the strides they have made this year.

This is a team that went into this season with a new head coach, new coaching staff, trying to implement new schemes on both sides of the ball, while also starting youth (rookies) in some key positions. That's not an easy thing to do, and takes time. Last year we had no running game and very little weapons offensively. I love our two rookie RBs, as well as our receiving corp. Our defensive secondary (pass) is one of the best in the NFL (7th).

Coming out of week #12 we had a record of 7-4 and were very much in the hunt for the division/play-offs. Since then the wheels have fallen off. But why? First off - one can't blame that slide on Manziel because has only started the last two games. Things started going awry due to key injuries on the offensive line. Look at how bad Hoyer struggled in the latter part of the season. It wasn't totally his fault. The guy was running for his life behind a line that has been turned into swiss cheese. Cleveland's offensive line is ranked 24th (run blocking) and 26th (pass protection) .

I watched that game last week vs Carolina, and can't tell you how many times I watch their defenders greet Manziel, or our RBs, behind the line when the ball got to them. It was ridiculous. Watching the play of this offensive line over the last few weeks reminds me of the days of poor Tim Couch, and how he got the crap beat out of him (LOL).

And the other issue, which has been on-gong all year .... our run defense is horrendous, and teams have been able to flaunt that.

But my point is simply this..... this team, yes, has some issues that need to be addressed in the off-season. But they've made some positive strides this year. I have to be honest... myself, and a majority of Brown fans I know, didn't really expect them to be quite as successful as they were. We just wanted to see signs of positive direction - and I think we've seen that.

As for Manziel? I find that a majority of those that hate/dislike Manziel - and I've always been on the fence - is due to two things..... 1) his mouth/cockiness, and all the hype. So he deserves a lot of that... but I also think it motivates some to root that he fails. 2) they've carried this preconceived notion, since he came out of college, that he was never going to make it in the NFL, and for various reasons (some valid, some not IMO) they continue to hold to that position, will never give him a chance, and those last two games reinforce that in their minds.

But is that being fair and objective? Manziel may fall flat on his face. I don't know. And right now, neither does the Brown's coaching staff. It's good to hear this from Pettine .... http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ing_off_1.html

and Karlos Dansby .... http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...hnny_manz.html

Sorry, but I find it silliness to make any predictions about Manziel at this stage of the game, and under the circumstances.

The fizzle at the end of the year brings into question any real progress. Keep in mind they played the last place schedule against the weakest division in the history of the NFL. Other than the road win in Cincy, what did they do other than play a soft schedule?

The Manziel pick to me is more the statement of the current state of affairs being like the past state of affairs. That pick was devastating and set the franchise back, or kept them down, however you want to view it.

[villain612]

I think Manziel was a bad pick but I wouldn't go as far to call it devastating.

I'd reserve that for the Redskins trading three number ones and a number two for RGIII.

[bucksfan2]

The fizzle at the end of the year brings into question any real progress. Keep in mind they played the last place schedule against the weakest division in the history of the NFL. Other than the road win in Cincy, what did they do other than play a soft schedule?

The Manziel pick to me is more the statement of the current state of affairs being like the past state of affairs. That pick was devastating and set the franchise back, or kept them down, however you want to view it.

The worst thing that happened to the Browns was the good start this season. The good start led them to riding Hoyer longer than they should have. The league knows what Brian Hoyer is, a backup QB, not a starting QB. He had some success but that success was more because of a good defense and a QB not making enough mistakes to cost the team games. I don't know Johnny Manziel is and I don't think anyone can say with certainty what he will be going forward. Cleveland needs time to decide and see what kind of QB he can become. He was awful in the Bengals game, just awful, and then got hurt in the next game. He made some terrible throws that led to Int's against he Bengals, but he also did some things that made perk up. He made some plays with his feet but went for naught because of a pass just a little bit too high, or being stopped a half yard too short.

Manziel needs time to develop and play. He needs time to suck, to learn what you can and can't do. Even Peyton Manning's TD/INT ratio was 26/28 in his first season with a 56% completion rating. Had he been given a year to start, to learn, to suck, but to improve the Browns would know what they have next year. Now they are going to have a mid range pick, a massive question mark at QB, and a team that really isn't any closer to competing than they were at the start of this year.

[Assembly Hall]

I think Manziel was a bad pick but I wouldn't go as far to call it devastating.

I'd reserve that for the Redskins trading three number ones and a number two for RGIII.

I agree. Heck, there have been a lot of bad choices. But giving up so much to get "your guy" is something different. When the guy doesn't work out.

[Assembly Hall]

The worst thing that happened to the Browns was the good start this season. The good start led them to riding Hoyer longer than they should have. The league knows what Brian Hoyer is, a backup QB, not a starting QB. He had some success but that success was more because of a good defense and a QB not making enough mistakes to cost the team games. I don't know Johnny Manziel is and I don't think anyone can say with certainty what he will be going forward. Cleveland needs time to decide and see what kind of QB he can become. He was awful in the Bengals game, just awful, and then got hurt in the next game. He made some terrible throws that led to Int's against he Bengals, but he also did some things that made perk up. He made some plays with his feet but went for naught because of a pass just a little bit too high, or being stopped a half yard too short.

Manziel needs time to develop and play. He needs time to suck, to learn what you can and can't do. Even Peyton Manning's TD/INT ratio was 26/28 in his first season with a 56% completion rating. Had he been given a year to start, to learn, to suck, but to improve the Browns would know what they have next year. Now they are going to have a mid range pick, a massive question mark at QB, and a team that really isn't any closer to competing than they were at the start of this year.

Great post bro.

The only thing that I would argue with is the Colts threw Peyton into the fire and they were in a "rebuilding" mode. He went from 3-13 to 13-3. You just knew he was gonna be good.

Another thing aside from the stats, is that Manning was a student of the game. Johnny needs to do a little more studying!!!!!

[traderumor]

I think Manziel was a bad pick but I wouldn't go as far to call it devastating.

I'd reserve that for the Redskins trading three number ones and a number two for RGIII.

Unproductive, wasted 1st round picks are devastating to a rebuilding franchise.

[GAC]

The fizzle at the end of the year brings into question any real progress. Keep in mind they played the last place schedule against the weakest division in the history of the NFL. Other than the road win in Cincy, what did they do other than play a soft schedule?

Did the Bengals play a soft schedule? Because other then two games (14 weeks out of 16), the Bengals played the same schedule (common opponents) buddy. So the Bengals also played the last place schedule against the weakest division (NFC North) in the history of the NFL did they not? The Bengals went 3-0-1, and the Browns went 3-1. Tampa Bay is bad, but they gave both of us one heck of a game.... and they beat Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh. Go figure.

Other then the Cincy road win? They beat the heck out of the Steelers in week#6.

Again - the Browns have issues (which I've already mentioned). They lost to a couple teams they shouldn't have.... but they also let a few games, against good opponents, slip away in the last minute when, IMO, they should have won (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Indy). But alas, they didn't.

But anyone who has watched the Browns this year - and I've watched every game - can see the direction (strides) they have made, and it's been positive.

Yes, we have fizzled over the last month. But, IMO, you're not being very objective (fair) as to what was the main reason (culprit) behind that slide. A lot of the Bengal's woes during the season was attributed to poor play by their defense. And why? Because of a lot of injuries. That's not making excuses, but a fact. Every analyst (commentator) that I read/listened to on the Brown's performance over the last month come to the same conclusion - their offensive line is banged up pretty bad. Other than Joe Thomas, we've got 3rd and 4th stringers playing in key spots (especially the right side). Some of these guys wouldn't be starting if not for injuries, which brings up the issue of depth which the Browns have to address.

Are our RBs terrible because they haven't been able to run the ball in the latter parts of this season? Not if you look at their performance before some of those injuries.

Hoyer also had success, and his struggles didn't really begin until guys (including Mack) started going down. And I said it then - while I had no huge problem with them starting Manziel - what did they have to lose - I did not think Manziel, a rookie with really no NFL experience, would have any more success or turn it around playing behind this terrible offensive line?

Manziel may turn out to be a bust. But I'm certainly not going to make such a determination based on such a small window and the current circumstances that are hindering any type of valued judgment at this stage.

South Carolina QB Conner Shaw starts tomorrow. They signed veteran QB Thigpen. And that's probably because they know Shaw is gonna take his lumps, suffer some punishment, so they better have some sort of back-up (LOL).

[Assembly Hall]

GAC, as a Colts fan, I still marvel at how Indy beat them. The Browns definitely let that one slip away.

[GAC]

GAC, as a Colts fan, I still marvel at how Indy beat them. The Browns definitely let that one slip away.

I could feel it in the air, slipping away from us, with less then 4 minutes to play in the game. Our defense played the best game of the season vs one of the NFL's best offenses/QBs. They totally dominated. 17 of our 24 points can be attributed to our defense. God bless them boys too, but they were just plain worn-out from being on the field so much by the end of this game, and the constant three-and-outs. The Hoyer-led offense couldn't do squat - had only three 1st downs in the 2nd half. That loss was totally on the offense.

As for the Colts... they've been somewhat of an enigma to me. After week #7, when they shut out the Bengals 27-0, numerous analysts were talking up Indy's defense. The next week they got shellacked by Pittsburgh (who got destroyed by the Browns 2 weeks prior), and their two losses in the second half - granted to two good teams play-off bound (NE, Dallas) - were quite ugly, and cast doubts as to how far they will advance in the post-season.

But I have to admit that I'm an Andrew Luck fan. I've watched a couple of shows/special segments on him, and he really impresses me on/off the field.

[Assembly Hall]

I could feel it in the air, slipping away from us, with less then 4 minutes to play in the game. Our defense played the best game of the season vs one of the NFL's best offenses/QBs. They totally dominated. 17 of our 24 points can be attributed to our defense. God bless them boys too, but they were just plain worn-out from being on the field so much by the end of this game, and the constant three-and-outs. The Hoyer-led offense couldn't do squat - had only three 1st downs in the 2nd half. That loss was totally on the offense.

As for the Colts... they've been somewhat of an enigma to me. After week #7, when they shut out the Bengals 27-0, numerous analysts were talking up Indy's defense. The next week they got shellacked by Pittsburgh (who got destroyed by the Browns 2 weeks prior), and their two losses in the second half - granted to two good teams play-off bound (NE, Dallas) - were quite ugly, and cast doubts as to how far they will advance in the post-season.

But I have to admit that I'm an Andrew Luck fan. I've watched a couple of shows/special segments on him, and he really impresses me on/off the field.

Love your take of the game. And you feel exactly as I do...the ineffectiveness of the offense cost them. The D couldn't have played any better.

As far as the Colts. I just don't know. I cant put my finger on it. The defense looks great one game, then fails to show up the next. The same can be said for their running game. And it seems that Luck is on his back way too many times. However the Pittburgh game was close late in the 4th, but they got man-handled by the Pats and the Cowboys. They also let one slip away against the Eagles. But you are right, they are an enigma.