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Thread: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

  1. #46
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Jeez I was correct but too kind. They’ve been the bottom for 5 seasons, not just 3.
    Could it be 7?


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  3. #47
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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    aged well
    Look at the before and after moves of that. He had just traded Trea Turner for no logical reason and absorbed a number of bad contracts (Kemp, Shields, Uptonx2)

    He completely changed course very very dramatically in 2016 and illustrated that he saw the same issues I did.

  4. #48
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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Look at the before and after moves of that. He had just traded Trea Turner for no logical reason and absorbed a number of bad contracts (Kemp, Shields, Uptonx2)

    He completely changed course very very dramatically in 2016 and illustrated that he saw the same issues I did.
    You completely muffed the Brewers take as well. Respectfully, this is homer bias. It just is. You’ll never hear someone admit it on a fan site. But that’s exactly what it is.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 07-20-2021 at 03:15 PM.

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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    You completely muffed the Brewers take as well. Respectfully, this is homer bias. It just is. You’ll never hear someone admit it on a fan site. But that’s exactly what it is.
    This thread was at a particular point in time, that 3 years later they traded for Christian Yelich, the guy their offense is driven by. How is that even reasonable to use as evidence? Then they added Aguilar, Shaw, Cain, and Thames to build an offense around them. Again, seems like their management understood they had a dumpy roster and went out and made moves to fix it.

    Actually do the analysis instead of calling me a homer. Which players from the Brewers organization in 2015 were key contributors to the team rebuilding?

    This was not an exercise to determine which team had the most competent leadership or GM to make moves. It was a review of the players inside the organization at that point in time. As usual, you move the goalposts to fit your agenda.

    Lastly, I was most vocal on Ryan Braun being described as an excellent trade piece. From there on in, he accumulated approximately 8 WAR and was paid $126M to do so. You described him as a better trade chip than anyone on the Reds while accumulating terrible, terrible value. He was an anchor that Milwaukee tried to move for years, unsuccessfully.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 07-21-2021 at 11:43 AM.

  6. #50
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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    This thread was at a particular point in time, that 3 years later they traded for Christian Yelich, the guy their offense is driven by. How is that even reasonable to use as evidence? Then they added Aguilar, Shaw, Cain, and Thames to build an offense around them. Again, seems like their management understood they had a dumpy roster and went out and made moves to fix it.

    Actually do the analysis instead of calling me a homer. Which players from the Brewers organization in 2015 were key contributors to the team rebuilding?

    This was not an exercise to determine which team had the most competent leadership or GM to make moves. It was a review of the players inside the organization at that point in time. As usual, you move the goalposts to fit your agenda.

    Lastly, I was most vocal on Ryan Braun being described as an excellent trade piece. From there on in, he accumulated approximately 8 WAR and was paid $126M to do so. You described him as a better trade chip than anyone on the Reds while accumulating terrible, terrible value. He was an anchor that Milwaukee tried to move for years, unsuccessfully.
    Your argument was that the 2015 Reds’ team (among the 3 or 4 worst collectives of talent in this organization in my lifetime and I was born in 1966) had a brighter future than the Brewers. What could you have possibly been basing that on except raw homerism?

    And what is the point of an analysis that doesn’t include the context of ownership, the ability to spend, etc.?
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 07-21-2021 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #51
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    Re: Which teams would trade entire organizations with the Reds right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Your argument was that the 2015 Reds’ team (among the 3 or 4 worst collectives of talent in this organization in my lifetime and I was born in 1966) had a brighter future than the Brewers. What could you have possibly been basing that on except raw homerism?

    And what is the point of an analysis that doesn’t include the context of ownership, the ability to spend, etc.?
    I interpret the question to mean the existing players in the organization from top to bottom. If you included ownership, then it would have clearly been a different discussion on my end. If you look at the actual context of this thread, that was the discussion people were having. You were pimping Ryan Braun to build an offense around, not Brewers ownership, or development. Pure players. Last I checked, you cant trade owners, or development teams... but you can trade players.

    Looking back on this, because its a more challenging discussion to actually understand the context from that point in time, a few factors that would be worth reviewing:

    1. Farm system, Fangraphs had the Brewers ranked 2 or 3 spots ahead of the Reds.... Baseball prospects had the Reds ranked the Reds 10 spots higher. Its at worst a wash.
    2. Both teams had inept 2015 seasons with wins in the 60 range
    3. Both teams had a $20m player locked in.. Ryan Braun vs. Votto... huge advantage there
    4. Brewers had a way better bullpen
    5. Both teams lacked any semblance of rotation
    6. Reds had Suarez/Frazier/Bruce to round outt offense vs. Lucroy/Gomez/Davis/Segura/Gennett

    Ya I dunno man, at face value, at the time, with actual context and not rando hindsight, its pretty debatable. I could see arguments for either side. Management turned the tables on this.


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