Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 64

Thread: New Spygate Revelations

  1. #16
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,751

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Right but the db read pass. That makes my point.
    DBs are trained to do that. They watch formations and the QB and they can make an educated guess that if the offense does A, they have to do B. If he saw Wilson staring straight at the receiver, he probably had a pretty good idea he was throwing to that receiver. Now, perhaps they gained access to Seattle's plays and one of those plays was that one. But Occam's Razor says that the Patriots DB made a good play on a bonehead call by SEA. So you're going to have to do a little better to make your point.

    Lombardi used to say that he didn't care if the other team knew his plays - especially the famous Green Bay Sweep - because even if they knew what was coming, they still had to stop it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    45,734

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Right but the db read pass. That makes my point.

    M2, spying is allowed in football just not this type. Just like there are war crimes.
    I'm pretty sure DBs play pass first, run second in just about every situation. If the Pats wanted another run stuffer there, they'd have pulled the DB and sent in a LB.

    On the second point, I get where you're coming from, but I think this maybe fits under "spying in an unsanctioned manner" more than "war crimes."
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,858

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    I'll just say this (won't watch the Rapistburger vs Belicheat). If there is any kharma for me left... 0-0 tie or 2-0 overtime win by Pittsburgh and both qbs outright SUCK.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamselig
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails.

    William Arthur Ward


  5. #19
    MLB Baseball Razor Shines's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    6,713

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    I'll just say this (won't watch the Rapistburger vs Belicheat). If there is any kharma for me left... 0-0 tie or 2-0 overtime win by Pittsburgh and both qbs outright SUCK.
    I'm a Colts fan and don't like the Pats (obvs) at all but I can't put Brady on the same level of evil as Big Ben, even if Brady deflated the footballs himself. I may lose my Colts fan membership but Brady has always been one of my favorite players and still is, ha, I'm looking forward to the game tonight. I have Brady on two fantasy teams and I think with vengeance in his heart he's going to put up big numbers this season.

    Outside of that, the Pats are clearly cheaters and got off way too easy with Spygate and Goodell should be fired.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.

  6. #20
    Member traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Columbus, OH area
    Posts
    19,911

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    DBs are trained to do that. They watch formations and the QB and they can make an educated guess that if the offense does A, they have to do B. If he saw Wilson staring straight at the receiver, he probably had a pretty good idea he was throwing to that receiver. Now, perhaps they gained access to Seattle's plays and one of those plays was that one. But Occam's Razor says that the Patriots DB made a good play on a bonehead call by SEA. So you're going to have to do a little better to make your point.

    Lombardi used to say that he didn't care if the other team knew his plays - especially the famous Green Bay Sweep - because even if they knew what was coming, they still had to stop it.
    Then why is it not a common outcome on a slant? Why is he a "hero" if it was a normal play?
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  7. #21
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,751

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Then why is it not a common outcome on a slant? Why is he a "hero" if it was a normal play?
    Probably because the ball was at the 2 yard line. If there's a pass play, it rules out many patterns. A slant isn't one of them. He's a hero because of the circumstances. It was a game saving interception. If the Patriots knew what Seattle was going to do, why didn't they win 50-0? Why did they have to make a comeback? Why did they let Seattle drive all the way down to the goal line where a run by Lynch could have won it? Is it scripted like wrestling?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  8. #22
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,222

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'm pretty sure DBs play pass first, run second in just about every situation. If the Pats wanted another run stuffer there, they'd have pulled the DB and sent in a LB.

    On the second point, I get where you're coming from, but I think this maybe fits under "spying in an unsanctioned manner" more than "war crimes."
    Dressing their folks up...come in, you are in denial.

    Flutie was wrong, too I guess.

  9. #23
    Member kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,849

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Is it scripted like wrestling?
    I've always been told don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to.

  10. Likes:

    M2 (09-10-2015)

  11. #24
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    45,734

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Dressing their folks up...come in, you are in denial.
    I fundamentally don't care. I just find it odd that a mild innovation on spying as normal (because no way were they the first/only team to use game video to decipher signs or send a mole in to watch the opposition's practice) constitutes a major crisis for the war sport. Then again, I guess turning this into a casus belli makes sense for the war sport.

    Honestly, what's better for the NFL than when everyone's super angry?
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  12. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,858

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Apparently facebook is a "buzz" because the Steelers radios were intertwined with the New England broadcast... Already trying to cheat again? Eh New England?

    *Please note I'm saying this mostly sarcasm*

    I don't want the little Patsy fans to get all outrage over saying Belicheat would ever do anything illegal again.
    Last edited by Slyder; 09-10-2015 at 10:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamselig
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails.

    William Arthur Ward


  13. #26
    Member traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Columbus, OH area
    Posts
    19,911

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Apparently facebook is a "buzz" because the Steelers radios were intertwined with the New England broadcast... Already trying to cheat again? Eh New England?

    *Please note I'm saying this mostly sarcasm*

    I don't want the little Patsy fans to get all outrage over saying Belicheat would ever do anything illegal again.
    There were instances noted in the article of headset issues.

    M2, I totally get your analogy, I do not get your soft stance on what is clearly breaking established rules as much ado about nothing. It is grievous cheating, the other 29 NFL teams are not engaging in the rules breaking activity, it gives the Patriots an unfair advantage, so much so that they are beating the league with average players that just so happen to be Pro Bowl caliber when playing the Patriots way. There is the more striking analogy to me, the similarities between a puzzling successful NFL team and a puzzling successful MLB team that wins like crazy, but has everyone baffled as to how.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  14. #27
    The pride is back. Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    2,881

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    There were instances noted in the article of headset issues.

    M2, I totally get your analogy, I do not get your soft stance on what is clearly breaking established rules as much ado about nothing. It is grievous cheating, the other 29 NFL teams are not engaging in the rules breaking activity, it gives the Patriots an unfair advantage, so much so that they are beating the league with average players that just so happen to be Pro Bowl caliber when playing the Patriots way. There is the more striking analogy to me, the similarities between a puzzling successful NFL team and a puzzling successful MLB team that wins like crazy, but has everyone baffled as to how.
    I have been baffled for quite sometime now.

  15. #28
    Member traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Columbus, OH area
    Posts
    19,911

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    I have been baffled for quite sometime now.
    This is the Flim Flam era. One of my favorites recently was the second highest paid guy in the EPA being busted recently for a 10 year scam where he would leave for months at a time telling his superiors that he was on a CIA mission, but was actually doing no work for anyone, but being paid by the EPA. One time he was gone for 18 months, a real life George Costanza.
    Last edited by traderumor; 09-11-2015 at 08:55 AM.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  16. Likes:

    jimbo (09-11-2015)

  17. #29
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bexley, OH
    Posts
    8,603

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    They went into other team's locker rooms and stole play sheets.

    Deadspin's post on the Steelers radios going out last night mentioned that the Bengals complained in 2006 of the same thing happening.

    The Patriots stellar home record with Brady looks a hell of a lot different to me now. The NFL is such a tight league that little advantages gained go a long way.
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

  18. #30
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    45,734

    Re: New Spygate Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    TM2, I totally get your analogy, I do not get your soft stance on what is clearly breaking established rules as much ado about nothing. It is grievous cheating, the other 29 NFL teams are not engaging in the rules breaking activity, it gives the Patriots an unfair advantage, so much so that they are beating the league with average players that just so happen to be Pro Bowl caliber when playing the Patriots way. There is the more striking analogy to me, the similarities between a puzzling successful NFL team and a puzzling successful MLB team that wins like crazy, but has everyone baffled as to how.
    My take on the NFL is it's overly litigious league which operates on a command and control fallacy. Radio relays to players on the field, coded signalling, open practices - it's all fodder for someone to gather intel on the opponent. I find the line between approved cheating (standard signal stealing, signing a guy who knows you opponent's playbook/signals, having a coach watch to opposition's run-throughs) differs all that much from grievous cheating.

    Also, supposedly this stuff got clamped down on years ago and the Patriots are still kicking everyone's butts. Either they immediately shifted to some next level spy juju when all this went down or maybe they're just really good at football. Generally speaking, having one of the best QBs of all time seems like a formula for sustained success. The Patriots supposedly had all this stuff in place with Drew Bledsoe and they sucked. I don't pay close attention to the NFL, but I'm a sentient being and I remember when Bledsoe got injured and Brady came in and the team went from awful to great inside a single week. Local sports radio went into spasm because the Pats went from punching bag to Cinderella story so fast.

    So, with my contrarian stance on football, my take is people don't like getting beaten for decades on end. No one can be this good. They must be up to something, and what they're up to is the WORST THING IN THE WORLD. Back when I cared, I hated the Cowboys. Despised them with every fiber of my being. Believed they had to be buying the refs to get the calls they did. Now I can admit that maybe Tom Landry knew the game better than pretty much everyone else.

    I suspect the Patriots will continue to roll as long as Tom Brady continues to be elite and it's probably no more complex than that. More than that, I suspect that if other teams get hung up on the Patriots being masters of sports espionage, it probably helps the Pats triumph on game day. If fans and the media get stuck on it, it's just a money train for the NFL.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator