Making a Murderer

[BuckeyeRed27]

Just finished 9. I don't understand how they convicted Dassey. Mind blowing.

[Raisor]

I couldn't get past the first five minutes of Episode one when Avery admitted to abusing a pet.

I have to assume he's guilty just based on that.

[ac084c]

Wife and I started last night and got through episode 5 or 6 (the one before they put Lenk on the stand). I just.... there are no words.

[ac084c]

Fascinating and infuriating article about the Reid interrogation technique which is pretty evidently used in the interrogation of Brendan Dassey:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...he-interview-7

[BuckeyeRed27]

So if he is framed, she is either killed or dies accidently some where near the property. Someone burns her in that offsite burn pit, which would also explain why her blood was in the back of the car. They then move the remains to the Avery burn put and dump the car on in salvage yard. That all seems doable to some degree. Doesn't explain how there is a bullet fragment in his garage and how his DNA is under the hood of the car (not in the show, but was part of the trial). I also don't see a scenario where he is framed where one of the cops or a relative of a cop didn't kill Teresa and that is just such a leap. It is just so more plausible that he killed her and the cops then planted some evidence like the key and the blood in the car just to make it stick.

[ac084c]

So if he is framed, she is either killed or dies accidently some where near the property. Someone burns her in that offsite burn pit, which would also explain why her blood was in the back of the car. They then move the remains to the Avery burn put and dump the car on in salvage yard. That all seems doable to some degree. Doesn't explain how there is a bullet fragment in his garage and how his DNA is under the hood of the car (not in the show, but was part of the trial). I also don't see a scenario where he is framed where one of the cops or a relative of a cop didn't kill Teresa and that is just such a leap. It is just so more plausible that he killed her and the cops then planted some evidence like the key and the blood in the car just to make it stick.

they shot bullets on the property all the time... there were shell casings everywhere... why did they only find the bullet fragment 4 months after doing an exhaustive search of an estate that turned up no such fragment? Why was there no traces of her blood in the garage? Her DNA pulled from the casing was not said to be blood... it could have been anything, and the tester's control was contaminated anyway.

The point is not guilt or innocence - the point is that there was enough reasonable doubt based on the method of investigation and coercion of testimony that he should have not been found guilty - whether he did it or not. The point is that law enforcement and investigators followed no other leads once they had their man pegged - even though there was enough reason to at least question other persons of interest as potential suspects and do due diligence.

[BuckeyeRed27]

they shot bullets on the property all the time... there were shell casings everywhere... why did they only find the bullet fragment 4 months after doing an exhaustive search of an estate that turned up no such fragment? Why was there no traces of her blood in the garage? Her DNA pulled from the casing was not said to be blood... it could have been anything, and the tester's control was contaminated anyway.

The point is not guilt or innocence - the point is that there was enough reasonable doubt based on the method of investigation and coercion of testimony that he should have not been found guilty - whether he did it or not. The point is that law enforcement and investigators followed no other leads once they had their man pegged - even though there was enough reason to at least question other persons of interest as potential suspects and do due diligence.

I don't think he shot her in the garage. He may have not shot her at all and the DNA contamination is certainly an issue. Just because he didn't kill her the way it was presented at trial, doesn't mean that he didn't do it either. There is a mountain of physical evidence and you have to bat 100% to prove it was planted. I think his lawyers did an incredible job of crafting a story to create doubt.

I still am stunned at what happened to his nephew. That whole thing should have been thrown out.

[The Operator]

I've been binge watching this for the last 6.5 hours... holy crap.

Each episode makes me more and more sick to my stomach but I can't quit watching.

[ac084c]

I've been binge watching this for the last 6.5 hours... holy crap.

Each episode makes me more and more sick to my stomach but I can't quit watching.

That's exactly where we were at. We finished it last night.

[ac084c]

I don't think he shot her in the garage. He may have not shot her at all and the DNA contamination is certainly an issue. Just because he didn't kill her the way it was presented at trial, doesn't mean that he didn't do it either. There is a mountain of physical evidence and you have to bat 100% to prove it was planted. I think his lawyers did an incredible job of crafting a story to create doubt.

I still am stunned at what happened to his nephew. That whole thing should have been thrown out.

I don't think so. There was both motive and opportunity for physical evidence to be planted. The fact the lynchpin physical evidence in the case was discovered by two officers that had a clear conflict of interest, days to months after initial exhaustive searches should be at least enough to cast reasonable doubt. It obviously did, given that the first jury vote came back 7-3-2 (innocent-guilty-undecided). The State never (that I saw, or have read about) provided motive for Steve Avery. The practices of the investigating officers for both Calumet County and Manatowoc county were rife with protocol breaches that never were explained away sufficiently or caused evidence to be withheld. Other persons of interest were never fully questioned or even implicated once they had the Averys in their sights (and there were plenty that should have at least been further questioned - such as the victim's brother and ex - who admitted to hacking into her cell phone records - when evidence showed that someone accessed the victim's voicemail messages after Oct 31 and deleted some).

Again, I'm not saying Avery didn't do it... he may have. But the Prosecution has the burden to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. And they did not do that here. They had questionable physical evidence, coerced circumstantial evidence, and the DA testifying to the press in order to sway the public opinion.

[WrongVerb]

Again, I'm not saying Avery didn't do it... he may have. But the Prosecution has the burden to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. And they did not do that here. They had questionable physical evidence, coerced circumstantial evidence, and the DA testifying to the press in order to sway the public opinion.

This is how I feel. I watched the entire thing. Best I can say about his guilt is: undetermined. But I definitely think there were some questionable and nefarious actions by the public officials in this case.

[Dom Heffner]

This is how I feel. I watched the entire thing. Best I can say about his guilt is: undetermined. But I definitely think there were some questionable and nefarious actions by the public officials in this case.

And that, really, is more important than his guilt or innocence.

Our founders were very clear, and even if they were not, the philosophy where a government plays by the rules is step #1.

It's the part of the argument that people miss with these police shootings.

[Razor Shines]

I think he's kind of a despicable guy and there's at least a 50/50 chance he did kill her. I think the prosecution and investigators did some deplorable things but I also think this "Pardon Steven Avery Petition" is non sense. He doesn't need a pardon, he simply needs another trial preferably somewhere else.

[Dom Heffner]

I think he's kind of a despicable guy and there's at least a 50/50 chance he did kill her. I think the prosecution and investigators did some deplorable things but I also think this "Pardon Steven Avery Petition" is non sense. He doesn't need a pardon, he simply needs another trial preferably somewhere else.

I want to watch it, these police/prosecution things are turning into Sarah McLachlan commercials, very tough for me to watch.

[Razor Shines]

I want to watch it, these police/prosecution things are turning into Sarah McLachlan commercials, very tough for me to watch.

At least these police/prosecution things have better music.