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Thread: Alternate History Novels

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Alternate History Novels

    A few of us have been talking about novels of Alternate History over in the Political forum. As it's not really political, figured I'd open a thread here.

    I'm currently in the middle of two massive stories, S.M. Stirling's Emberverse/Novels of the Change Series as well as Eric Flint's Ring of Fire (1632) series.

    Anyone read a good book lately?


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    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    So, are these like a Gore Novel, such as "1876", where he places a couple of characters in the middle of actual people and events?

    More fictional like Michener's "Centennial", where most of the characters are fictional, but every description is accurate for the time down to what type of button would be on someone's coat?

    Or, are these novels where an event is altered and all proceeding events change because of it, but historical accuracy remains?
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Yes

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    Senor Votto
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick
    11/22/63 by Stephen King (Sort of)

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    I think I remember reading one by Philip Roth that was pretty good. (just looked it up: The Plot Against America )

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series is something to behold.

    A small West Virginia town gets transported to Germany in 1632, right in the middle of the 30 years war.

    They decide that the only way to survive is to start the American revolution early.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series

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    Member marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series is something to behold.

    A small West Virginia town gets transported to Germany in 1632, right in the middle of the 30 years war.

    They decide that the only way to survive is to start the American revolution early.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series
    I started reading this a couple of years ago and was interrupted. I've been meaning to start back up again. His depiction of the geography and culture of the transported area of West Virginia was fantastic.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    I started reading this a couple of years ago and was interrupted. I've been meaning to start back up again. His depiction of the geography and culture of the transported area of West Virginia was fantastic.

    In 2015 I sat down and re-read the entire series up to date. It's really like nothing I've read before. Lots of moving parts.

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    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    If dystopian novels count, Children of Men is pretty good.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Suppose that in 2005, Kimo Von Oehlhoffen doesn't dastardly take out Palmer's knees. What would have happened?

    As demonstrated by the 70-yd TD bomb on that play, Cincy was ready to destroy the Steelers, and likely would have thumped them 38-10. They then would have gone into Denver in the Divisional Round and won that game 30-24, with no missed extra point coming into play. They then would have hosted the Patriots, who had dispatched the Colts in Indy, and proceeded to whoop up on New England 38-7. The season would have been topped off with a resounding 31-17 Super Bowl win over the Seattle Seahawks.

    The 2006 off-season saw Bob Bratkowski get promoted to Head Coach of the Detroit Lions replacing Dick Jauron and Steve Mariucci. Matt Millen wanted to switch from the West Coast Offense to the Air Coryell of Bratkowski and new Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz.

    Brat took with him the 34-year old Jon Kitna to run the show as they prepared their 2006 1st Round pick Jay Cutler to take over the next season. Cutler was a recommendation to Millen by both Martz and Bratkowski over Leinert (taken with the next pick by Arizona), as they felt Matt couldn't duplicate the transitional success out of USC that Palmer accomplished.

    With Hue Jackson's promotion from WR's Coach to Offensive Coordinator, the Bengals began their transition back to a West Coast Offense from the Air Coryell style of Bratkowski. While Chris Perry was taken by Marvin Lewis to be that 3-down passing back to eventually replace Rudi Johnson, someone was needed to be added to then replace Chris Perry as the #2RB.

    A pass-catching TE will have to be added, two to be exact, as Reggie Kelly has proved that he's not going to be that guy. A benefit of the West Coast Offense over the Air Coryell is that the QB doesn't have to hold onto the ball for as long, making 2005, 4th Round project, Eric Ghiuciuc, less of a liability as he learns to handle AFC North DT's.

    The Bengals committed to improving themselves in Free Agency by adding the #2 DT available in Sam Adams and quality Free Agent S Dexter Jackson, while retaining the #3 available FB in Jeremi Johnson, G Scott Kooistra, RB Kenny Watson (a better fit for Jackson than Bratkowski) and WR Kelly Washington.

    With Pro Bowl LCB Deltha O'Neal and RCB Tory James set to anchor the Corners, the Bengals could look for depth there along with adding insurance for the injured David Pollack.

    With the last pick of the 1st Round of the 2006 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals select LB D'Qwell Jackson, a much better fit with the 4-3 Defense of Cincinnati instead of being mismatched in the 3-4 of Cleveland. (Jonathan Joseph went to the Giants.)

    The 2nd Round saw Whitworth still available with the 64th pick as Tampa Bay was the only team who took an OT between #55 (his original selection by the Bengals) and #64, the last pick of the 2nd Round. I'm going to assume that the Bucs had Jeremy Trueblood higher-rated.

    In the 3rd Round, the Bengals don't get Frostee Rucker and instead get the TE Hue Jackson needs to run his West Coast Offense, Wisconsin's Owen Daniels.

    In the 4th, Pittsburgh takes Damato Peko (to keep the Samoan connection going) with the #123 pick (where he was actually selected by the Bengals) instead of DT Orien Harris, whom they had taken with the last compensatory pick of the 4th Round. The Bengals settle for DT Kyle Williams with the #129 pick. (Williams was actually taken with the 1st pick of the 5th Round.)

    Since the Bengals need not one, but two TE's who can play that position in the West Coast Offense, Reggie Kelly as was stated, will be replaced by Daniels and Daniels backup will be taken in the 5th at #164, Delanie Walker (instead of LB A.J. Nicholson, having already secured a starting LB in D'Qwell and with plans to add another with Supplemental pick Ahmad Brooks). Good character still isn't important as Duke Tobin's influence doesn't take a huge step forward until the 2010 draft, but in this fictional account, the 2007 draft.

    So, in the 2006 draft, D'Qwell Jackson, Andrew Whitworth, Owen Daniels, Kyle Williams and Delanie Walker are added instead of Joseph, Whitworth, Rucker, Peko and Nicholson.....and they added Ahmad Brooks in June.

    With Kyle Williams, Sam Adams, D'Qwell Jackson and Ahmad Brooks added, maybe Deltha O'Neal doesn't get injured.

    The Defense of Bresnahan's that held New Orleans, Cleveland, Baltimore and Oakland to a combined 33 points Weeks 11-14 remains strong at the end of the season so that a missed extra point in Denver and an OT loss at home to Pittsburgh are wins, along with an earlier 1-pt loss to Tampa Bay and a 2-pt loss to Atlanta.

    They finish 12-4 in 2006, get the #5 seed, beat New England in the Wild Card Round, Beat San Diego in the Divisional Round for revenge of a Week 10 49-41 loss in Cincinnati.

    They then face Indianapolis (who bested Baltimore in the Divisional Round) in a rematch of the Week 15, Monday Night embarrassment where they lost 34-16. This time, with a healthier and stronger Defense, and two TE's in Daniels and Walker who can match Indy's pair of Utecht and Clark (Jackson hits Utecht and knocks him out in the 1st), the Bengals get past the Colts as Palmer throws for 4 TD's and Peyton is picked off three times.

    The Bengals then crush the Bears 45-3 in the Super Bowl as Rex Grossman gets replaced by Brian Griese in the 2nd Half to no effect.

    As the Owner of back-to-back Super Bowl Champions, Mike Brown steps back from the football operations and makes Duke Tobin General Manager while doubling the size of the scouting department.

    Bresnahan gets promoted to Head Coach of the Vikings taking over for Brad Childress where Bresnahan replaces DC Mike Tomlin with Leslie Frazier.

    Mike Zimmer gets hired as DC a year earlier instead of wasting one year in Atlanta.

    The 2007 off-season sees the Bengals recognizing their needs at Center, CB and a pass-catching, 3-down RB who can stay healthy. With Duke Tobin now the G.M., his influence regarding character over measureables comes into play. The knuckleheads will be weaned off the team while his influence is needed to replace the free agents lost to other teams (Steinbach, Kaesviharn, Brian Simmons, Sam Adams, Tory James).

    Instead of a very underwhelming draft of Leon Hall, Kenny Irons, Marvin White, Jeff Rowe, Matt Toeaina, Dan Santucci and Chinedum Ndukwe, the Bengals drafted instead S Eric Weddle (1st), picked up a 3rd and 4th for their 2nd since they had lost their 3rd on the Brooks pick, getting with these picks, DE Brian Robison and DT Paul Soliai (they get the Samoan connection going).

    They finish off the draft with CB Corey Graham, K Nick Folk (Warning: Don't miss critical extra points in Denver), RB's Ahmad Bradshaw and Pierre Thomas and C Kyle Cook. In Free Agency they added RFA CB Phillip Buchanon from Houston outbidding Tampa Bay (though Cincinnati had become a destination everyone wants to come to now).

    Needless to say, they three-peat by getting by the 15-1 (they lost Monday Night, Oct 1st, in Cincy) Patriots 31-24 before pasting the Giants 42-10 in the Super Bowl.

    Northwest Expressway becomes Lewis Lane, while fans have picnics in Palmer Park, formerly Eden Park.

    The 2008 draft sees the Bengals taking with their first two picks, CB Brandon Flowers and RB Jamaal Charles. They then take local athlete, Pierre Garcon out of Mount Union, in the 6th.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 01-28-2016 at 02:05 AM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Suppose that in 2005, Kimo Von Oehlhoffen doesn't dastardly take out Palmer's knees. What would have happened?

    As demonstrated by the 70-yd TD bomb on that play, Cincy was ready to destroy the Steelers, and likely would have thumped them 38-10. They then would have . . .
    Wow, I wasn't expecting that. Do you have a publisher?

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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Wow, I wasn't expecting that. Do you have a publisher?
    It's like, what if Portland had drafted Jordan instead of Bowie and Arvidas Sabonis had come over 10 years earlier?

    Jordan, Drexler, Sabonis, Porter and Buck Williams starting with Kersey, Cliff Robinson and Duckworth off the bench.

    Rick Adelman would be the greatest Coach in the history of basketball and we'd be saying, "Who's Phil Jackson?" "Oh, yeah. He's that reserve that played for the '73 Knicks whose autograph I got at the Thunderbird motel the year Tiny was dominating basketball in Kansas City/Omaha. Used to always get him confused with Stu Jackson. Could never get those two straight."
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  16. #13
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    So, does Larkin switch to third to make room for Jeter, or does Jeter change positions?
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  17. #14
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Jeter to 3rd.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Winning is fun. RiverRat13's Avatar
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    Re: Alternate History Novels

    Jeter to CF.

    I just downloaded the first Ring of Fire book to my Kindle. It is free.
    Last edited by RiverRat13; 01-29-2016 at 07:33 AM.


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