WWE Talk Pt. II: It's not a good thread, it's not a bad thread, it's THE thread...

[Caveat Emperor]

I thought RAW was awesome last night, the best episode I can remember in a long time.

I was worried after the insanely long authority-style promo at the start from Stephanie and Mick, but it was just well done TV. I love that they not only brought in jobbers, but that they actually interviewed the jobber to build heat on the heel for squashing him. It's perfect execution to put the actual talent over as a monster without needing to demean another one of the guys on the roster.

The wrestling was crisp, the matches told stories themselves but also advanced ongoing stories, which was great. The finishes were unpredictable, without being ridiculous, and I too loved the post-match interviews they did. Hell, I even heard a "Pro Wrestling" come out of Cole's mouth, which was shocking.

Smackdown has a lot to live up to tonight, with a way-weaker roster to do it with.

[Caveat Emperor]

And, as good as RAW was on Monday, that's how bad Smackdown was tonight. Wow.

[Tom Servo]

I didn't think it was particularly bad, it was a rather inauspicious debut though as nothing much stood out. RAW definitely has more depth, they even have guys who might be able to do something on SmackDown like Jack Swagger who probably won't ever see the light of day.

I don't know where I am on this Ziggler thing. I was a HUGE fan of his, but that, sadly, was years ago now. He could and should have been a top heel champion, and it just never happened. Now he's older, feels long in the tooth, and his appearance is basically crap unless you're into the whole glam rock thing. But hey, Bret Hart didn't make it big until he was 35. If this gets a heel Ziggler going again that would be a great thing.

[TRF]

I didn't think it was particularly bad, it was a rather inauspicious debut though as nothing much stood out. RAW definitely has more depth, they even have guys who might be able to do something on SmackDown like Jack Swagger who probably won't ever see the light of day.

I don't know where I am on this Ziggler thing. I was a HUGE fan of his, but that, sadly, was years ago now. He could and should have been a top heel champion, and it just never happened. Now he's older, feels long in the tooth, and his appearance is basically crap unless you're into the whole glam rock thing. But hey, Bret Hart didn't make it big until he was 35. If this gets a heel Ziggler going again that would be a great thing.

I'm not a fan of the underdog Ziggler. No one to root against in the SS match. No, he needs to go back to being a heel in the worst way. I watched SD last night and in my head called every match starting with the battle royal. Seriously, i didn't get a single one wrong. I knew as soon as Ziggler was announced that he was going to win.

Looks like Orton wants to be a SCSA type. That can work for him.

I totally called the Heath Slater thing. I completely expect him to be speared by Goldberg on RAW next week.

[Tom Servo]

Seriously, i didn't get a single one wrong. I knew as soon as Ziggler was announced that he was going to win.

Really? I gave Ziggler zero chance, he seemed like a warm body to bump around for the match. I thought Corbin was the darkhorse to solidify the 'new era' with Balor main eventing on RAW and another new guy on SD, with AJ and Cena as the two most likely choices.

[Caveat Emperor]

I didn't think it was particularly bad, it was a rather inauspicious debut though as nothing much stood out. RAW definitely has more depth, they even have guys who might be able to do something on SmackDown like Jack Swagger who probably won't ever see the light of day.

I don't know where I am on this Ziggler thing. I was a HUGE fan of his, but that, sadly, was years ago now. He could and should have been a top heel champion, and it just never happened. Now he's older, feels long in the tooth, and his appearance is basically crap unless you're into the whole glam rock thing. But hey, Bret Hart didn't make it big until he was 35. If this gets a heel Ziggler going again that would be a great thing.

Everything about SD just felt tired and off. You can start with how thin the roster is -- the "battle royale" to open the show was laughably empty, and that featured the entirety of the men's roster minus Ambrose and the five other guys from the main event match. I know it's only a two hour show, but Smackdown needs more talent. Looking around the ring in the battle royale, I couldn't pick one guy out who would excite me by winning. Kane? An old and slow worker that brings nothing to the table. ADR? Hasn't given an actual crap about anything other than a paycheck in years. It ends up with Apollo Crews winning -- a guy who is such a boring babyface character that he should probably come with a warning not to operate heavy machinery while watching.

The commentary was just a total trainwreck too. I know it's cliche to complain about WWE announcing, but JBL is seriously the worst. He has absolutely no sense of timing, he was talking all over Mauro all night, he's not funny, and he's incredibly inconsistent with his announcer character. The SD announce team with Mauro & King was one of the strongest aspects of the show over the last 8 months -- now it's an absolute liability. I'd comment on David Ortunga, but JBL was such as loudmouthed prick that I'm not certain Ortunga spoke once during the entire two hour broadcast.

Then you had a women's segment that was just horrible. The match itself was dull and boring -- mostly because it's the same pairing (Natalya and Becky) that we've seen multiple matches of in the last few weeks and because Natalya has the personality of an Arby's condiment bar. And then the segment ends with each of the women parading out, talking smack for a few seconds and culminating with Eva Marie basically doing a striptease on stage and then fading to commercial. It felt straight out of the mid-2000s divas division and added absolutely nothing to the show.

And then Dolph Ziggler winning in the ME? I like Dolph, but he's probably at one of his weakest character-moments of his career (though nothing will ever top the "Kayfabe stealing Lana from Rusev while real news media outlets are reporting Rusev and Lana are engaged" disaster) as a completely forgettable babyface character and, unless he's going full heel to get the title, I don't see how a face v. face Ziggler v. Ambrose feud will do anything to better either guy.

[Tom Servo]

The commentary was just a total trainwreck too. I know it's cliche to complain about WWE announcing, but JBL is seriously the worst. He has absolutely no sense of timing, he was talking all over Mauro all night, he's not funny, and he's incredibly inconsistent with his announcer character. The SD announce team with Mauro & King was one of the strongest aspects of the show over the last 8 months -- now it's an absolute liability. I'd comment on David Ortunga, but JBL was such as loudmouthed prick that I'm not certain Ortunga spoke once during the entire two hour broadcast.

This is completely true, JBL is unbearable. Mauro could barely say anything last night, let alone Otunga, without JBL yelling some nonsense.


I loved the Eva Marie thing though, it was hilarious.

[M2]

I agree Apollo Crews is dreadfully boring from a character standpoint. They should have him rebel against his name, dub himself Anonymous Blackman and run a gimmick where he openly mocks Creative's latest ideas for him.

[Tom Servo]

Didn't JBL call Apollo 'Titus' the other week? lol

[gilpdawg]

Everything about SD just felt tired and off. You can start with how thin the roster is -- the "battle royale" to open the show was laughably empty, and that featured the entirety of the men's roster minus Ambrose and the five other guys from the main event match. I know it's only a two hour show, but Smackdown needs more talent. Looking around the ring in the battle royale, I couldn't pick one guy out who would excite me by winning. Kane? An old and slow worker that brings nothing to the table. ADR? Hasn't given an actual crap about anything other than a paycheck in years. It ends up with Apollo Crews winning -- a guy who is such a boring babyface character that he should probably come with a warning not to operate heavy machinery while watching.

The commentary was just a total trainwreck too. I know it's cliche to complain about WWE announcing, but JBL is seriously the worst. He has absolutely no sense of timing, he was talking all over Mauro all night, he's not funny, and he's incredibly inconsistent with his announcer character. The SD announce team with Mauro & King was one of the strongest aspects of the show over the last 8 months -- now it's an absolute liability. I'd comment on David Ortunga, but JBL was such as loudmouthed prick that I'm not certain Ortunga spoke once during the entire two hour broadcast.

Then you had a women's segment that was just horrible. The match itself was dull and boring -- mostly because it's the same pairing (Natalya and Becky) that we've seen multiple matches of in the last few weeks and because Natalya has the personality of an Arby's condiment bar. And then the segment ends with each of the women parading out, talking smack for a few seconds and culminating with Eva Marie basically doing a striptease on stage and then fading to commercial. It felt straight out of the mid-2000s divas division and added absolutely nothing to the show.

And then Dolph Ziggler winning in the ME? I like Dolph, but he's probably at one of his weakest character-moments of his career (though nothing will ever top the "Kayfabe stealing Lana from Rusev while real news media outlets are reporting Rusev and Lana are engaged" disaster) as a completely forgettable babyface character and, unless he's going full heel to get the title, I don't see how a face v. face Ziggler v. Ambrose feud will do anything to better either guy.

I'm assuming the SD roster will wind up with Joe and Nakamura eventually, which helps with the depth.


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[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm assuming the SD roster will wind up with Joe and Nakamura eventually, which helps with the depth.

Austin Aries and Bobby Roode might be interesting as well.

[Tom Servo]

Austin Aries and Bobby Roode might be interesting as well.

Man, the two of them teaming up again to face the New Day would make for some great television.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Man, the two of them teaming up again to face the New Day would make for some great television.

If you want to go to three, Eric Young could also hang. Young's poor man's NWA Macho Man character is solid enough to be interesting in small doses. Good mic skills too. (Which they'd need, as Roode needs work there. Aries is good, though.)

[TRF]

SD actually has a feel of NOTHING has changed whereas RAW is giving off the New Era vibe. Which is hilarious and possibly even planned. If not, they should take advantage of it immediately with having Daniel Bryan offering a dissenting opinion all the time but getting overruled by the boss, Shane.

As for Ziggler, he totally needs to lose at SS and go bat crap crazy. Complete heel turn. This underdog stuff has to transform to resentment.

But yes, the roster is woefully understaffed, and RAW was announced at the draft that they are doing the cruiserweight division.

What a cluster.

[Slyder]

#SignHeathSlater!